RugbyRebels

I think we’re so used to a min of 8 out of 10 that when he produces a 7 out of 10 we say he’s lost his lustre… whilst being surrounded by perennial 6 or 7 out of 10s.

Yeah, you might say he's having slightly less frequent outstanding games, but that's about it and his base level is still ridiculous.

Someone suggested before that JVP was "promoted to the bench" for his great performance in test 2. Eddie taking the theory to bizarre extremes here getting irrationally annoyed at a journalist for not recognising that Care actually got more than his normal 25 minutes.



I really hope he donates his brain for scientific study when the time comes. A truly fascinating character.

Banquo wrote:

SDHoneymonster wrote:

Banquo wrote: Itoje remains an amazing player.

I feel that Itoje is knackered more than anything.

I'm not sure what more folks expect him to do; excellent in the lineout, hugely missed at restarts, tremendous tackle rate; maybe could carry a bit more.

Doesn't even really need to carry anymore given we've got carriers in the back row again. Let the man hunt turnovers and generally irritate the hell out of the opposition.

SDHoneymonster wrote:

Banquo wrote:

SDHoneymonster wrote:
I feel that Itoje is knackered more than anything.

I'm not sure what more folks expect him to do; excellent in the lineout, hugely missed at restarts, tremendous tackle rate; maybe could carry a bit more.

Doesn't even really need to carry anymore given we've got carriers in the back row again. Let the man hunt turnovers and generally irritate the hell out of the opposition.

Think he does; its one of those (very english) things where his level of performance is always so high we have got used to it and start moaning at a slight drop off, where the slight drop off is still top class. Mind, that shouty stuff is just irritating.

Now he's so well known I imagine the opposition are planning and training to nullify him specifically. Yet he remains bloody good.

I did say originally about Itoje 'by his own high standards'. He is still our best player and one of the best locks in the world. I merely suggest that his overall performance levels have dropped slightly.

It may just be fatigue and it may be for all sorts of other reasons - playing with Ewels can't have helped, for instance.

The only thing that worries me is that he might not be 100% pschologically. Let's face it, he's the ultimate winner. Maybe he's pissed off with defeats and overall team performances. I'd guess (from hearing him interviewed only) that he's too intelligent to be happy with Jones's categorisation of English players.

I

Oakboy wrote:I did say originally about Itoje 'by his own high standards'. He is still our best player and one of the best locks in the world. I merely suggest that his overall performance levels have dropped slightly.

It may just be fatigue and it may be for all sorts of other reasons - playing with Ewels can't have helped, for instance.

The only thing that worries me is that he might not be 100% pschologically. Let's face it, he's the ultimate winner. Maybe he's pissed off with defeats and overall team performances. I'd guess (from hearing him interviewed only) that he's too intelligent to be happy with Jones's categorisation of English players.

I

I don't think his performance has actually dropped.

Agreed. His performances have been excellent.

Mikey Brown wrote:Yeah, you might say he's having slightly less frequent outstanding games, but that's about it and his base level is still ridiculous.

Someone suggested before that JVP was "promoted to the bench" for his great performance in test 2. Eddie taking the theory to bizarre extremes here getting irrationally annoyed at a journalist for not recognising that Care actually got more than his normal 25 minutes.



I really hope he donates his brain for scientific study when the time comes. A truly fascinating character.

So Eddie makes it about Eddie, and doesn't shit on Care in the national press. Doesn't seem that bad. Even if we know it's bollocks, the fact he's got the gall to say it, still makes us think "Fucking Eddie." instead of still thinking "Care was shite.".

Eddie the martyr again? Really? It doesn't stop a single person in the world from observing that Care wasn't good, and his England career is probably over. It's just Eddie being weird in addition to that. It's not a problem or anything, and quite funny, but it's an odd thing to try and belittle a journalist for.

Mikey Brown wrote:Eddie the martyr again? Really? It doesn't stop a single person in the world from observing that Care wasn't good, and his England career is probably over. It's just Eddie being weird in addition to that. It's not a problem or anything, and quite funny, but it's an odd thing to try and belittle a journalist for.

Not Eddie the martyr, rather Eddie the not throwing his player completely under the bus. Would you rather him say Care was playing like shit?

Raggs wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Eddie the martyr again? Really? It doesn't stop a single person in the world from observing that Care wasn't good, and his England career is probably over. It's just Eddie being weird in addition to that. It's not a problem or anything, and quite funny, but it's an odd thing to try and belittle a journalist for.

Not Eddie the martyr, rather Eddie the not throwing his player completely under the bus. Would you rather him say Care was playing like shit?

Exactly this. Although the problem is he say things so utterly stupid that we can see exactly what he's doing. He could easily say he took a knock or said something slightly more believable but equally as untrue

Why not say, "It was the correct decision at the time in this game. The good of the team has to come before the feelings of the player. Professional sport is hard."

Yeah, "things weren't going Danny's way", "it was the right change for the team", "I made a tactical/selection error" all seem far more believable and less idiotic than "I do this all the time, it was pre-planned, are you dumb? Haven't you been paying attention? Care actually got longer than if he'd come off the bench".

Care isn't waiting to watch the press conference to find out what Eddie thought of his performance. All this achieves is making Eddie look less and less sure of himself. I suppose it might make journos less keen on actually asking him questions, so maybe that's the goal.

Something makes me think it doesn't matter what Jones says...

To who? Care?

To Care, to Jones or to the responses on this forum.

I don't follow you. I'm not sure anyone is thinking anything that is said on here actually matters are they? Should we just stop?

I just don't understand why there is this endless recursive discussion where everything is endlessly raked over in an effort to prove Jones is a dick. I do realise endlessly raking over things is the point of the board, mind.

Well exactly. There’s no rugby happening, what are we supposed to be talking about? We can go back to talking about Ford/Smith/Farrell, Lawes’s best position or just be quiet until the new season starts?

I didn’t think 8 posts about this bizarre thing EJ just said is outrageous. The national coach belittling journalists for being interested in how he goes about his job is quite interesting, to me at least. More in terms of psychology than rugby, to be fair.

The trouble is that it doesn't feel like a new topic. If it wasn't this, there'd be something else about Jones so it doesn't feel like only 8 posts - it's just an endless continuity.

I'd be interested in some close analysis of the English and Aussie systems over the three games, if you've the time! It would be interesting to see what changes and improvements did occur


Off topic slightly but just watched squidge on Ireland and I'd like to know what the best way to stop an attack like there's is. Just beat the crap out of them I guess.

Mr Mwenda wrote:The trouble is that it doesn't feel like a new topic. If it wasn't this, there'd be something else about Jones so it doesn't feel like only 8 posts - it's just an endless continuity.

I'd be interested in some close analysis of the English and Aussie systems over the three games, if you've the time! It would be interesting to see what changes and improvements did occur


Off topic slightly but just watched squidge on Ireland and I'd like to know what the best way to stop an attack like there's is. Just beat the crap out of them I guess.

Correct

Mr Mwenda wrote:The trouble is that it doesn't feel like a new topic. If it wasn't this, there'd be something else about Jones so it doesn't feel like only 8 posts - it's just an endless continuity.

I'd be interested in some close analysis of the English and Aussie systems over the three games, if you've the time! It would be interesting to see what changes and improvements did occur


Off topic slightly but just watched squidge on Ireland and I'd like to know what the best way to stop an attack like there's is. Just beat the crap out of them I guess.

History may not repeat itself, but Ireland do have an unfortunate habit of peaking a year early when it comes to the RWC. Perhaps they haven’t hit their peak and they’re going to keep getting better, but even if they do, they’re on the tougher side of the draw with SA in their group and a likely QF with NZ or France.

In the past, they’ve kind of beaten themselves by just failing to rise to the occasion when it really matters. I may end up eating my words, but I think I’d back NZ or France in a QF.

One thing with the Ireland attack that really impressed me was how many times it looked like they’re going for the pullback (surprise! We’ve got a flyhalf lurking behind these forwards!) and then actually get a forward carrier hitting a weak shoulder and the outside defence having to then retreat.