RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: and also fcks over Scotland (who can set own tax rates but not NI). I've never seen a party so utterly out of touch and sense.

It's classic Boris though, isn't it? It's a beautiful promise to the Tory membership (many of whom will be on large pensions and thus will benefit from the tax cut without having to pay NI), but once he's won, he'll put it off as a job for after Brexit and it'll be quietly forgotten about (or put to a vote which it won't win and he'll say he tried his best). Come an election, he'll be peddling whatever truth he needs to win that selection of voters, with previous promises all left in the past.

Puja

oh yes, playing to 150000 for his own ambition. He's a c&nt and a traitor.

Diggers, give Banquo his laptop back.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
It's classic Boris though, isn't it? It's a beautiful promise to the Tory membership (many of whom will be on large pensions and thus will benefit from the tax cut without having to pay NI), but once he's won, he'll put it off as a job for after Brexit and it'll be quietly forgotten about (or put to a vote which it won't win and he'll say he tried his best). Come an election, he'll be peddling whatever truth he needs to win that selection of voters, with previous promises all left in the past.

Puja

oh yes, playing to 150000 for his own ambition. He's a c&nt and a traitor.

Diggers, give Banquo his laptop back.

sadly, its me and I've always thought this of our future PM.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: oh yes, playing to 150000 for his own ambition. He's a c&nt and a traitor.

Diggers, give Banquo his laptop back.

sadly, its me and I've always thought this of our future PM.

I'm ashamed I didn't

All of those from the Bullington club are as bad as each other. They're not in politics to serve.

This is pretty fucking grim. Incompetent leadership seems to be spreading throughout the world like an aggressive cancer.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: oh yes, playing to 150000 for his own ambition. He's a c&nt and a traitor.

Diggers, give Banquo his laptop back.

sadly, its me and I've always thought this of our future PM.

Besides, the poor people voted for Brexit and thus deserve this sort of treatment. Maybe Brexit has made me a Tory

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Diggers, give Banquo his laptop back.

sadly, its me and I've always thought this of our future PM.

Besides, the poor people voted for Brexit and thus deserve this sort of treatment. Maybe Brexit has made me a Tory

Going from what you post on RR, other than Brexit I’d say you are.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: sadly, its me and I've always thought this of our future PM.

Besides, the poor people voted for Brexit and thus deserve this sort of treatment. Maybe Brexit has made me a Tory

Going from what you post on RR, other than Brexit I’d say you are.

That would be a poor guide indeed, not that any structured attempt at a coherent policy would be much better

Pretty depressing events in Parliament today. Party before sanity.

As a whole, this country really is going to get what's coming to it.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Pretty depressing events in Parliament today. Party before sanity.

I don't think a lot of Tories realise there is no-one in the EU around to agree a new deal before 31st Oct, so the threat of no deal is just a gun to our own head

Banquo wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Pretty depressing events in Parliament today. Party before sanity.

I don't think a lot of Tories realise there is no-one in the EU around to agree a new deal before 31st Oct, so the threat of no deal is just a gun to our own head

Even if they were, given how long it took to negotiate the current deal, do they really think that they can negotiate something better in a couple of months? And then get it through parliament?

Utter madness. We had 3 options under May, they haven't really changed except that the the political fashion setters have decided that May's deal is dead and cannot be revived - which is actually bollocks.

So with this same Parliament, where there isn't a majority for anything, a new leader is expected to get something through. I think that the likelihood of a motion of no confidence is very high if the new leader tries to force hard Brexit through by stealth.

The lack of majority is the problem. I think they're currently in GE focus, not Brexit focus; hence all the remainers saying nice things about Boris, because they think only he can win. Go to the country, change the parliamentary maths, then go from there.

Peat wrote:The lack of majority is the problem. I think they're currently in GE focus, not Brexit focus; hence all the remainers saying nice things about Boris, because they think only he can win. Go to the country, change the parliamentary maths, then go from there.

I like the fact that we're still ignoring the fact that we're not alone in these negotiations, arguing with ourselves. The EU was split over giving us the last extension and explicitly warned us not to waste the additional time. And what have we done? Pissed it away with nary a hint that we might have a plan or an idea for how we go forwards.

Now, the EU may still give us another extension, because they still have the hope that we'll eventually settle on a deal, because they might hope we'll revoke, or for their own ineffable reasons. But they're just as likely to point out that they've given us two extensions and we can crash out for all they care.

Puja

I think most Cons realise, and most candidates have said, that going to the country before sorting Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt due to so much of the Con vote moving to BP. I’d imagine a GE will only be called if parliament force it.
I think most MPs realise, and most candidates have said, that a GE before Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt. A govt headed by an all powerful (within the Lab party due to delivering a GE win and a new tranche of Corbynite MPs) Corbyn who hates the EU capitalist cabal and it’s imperialist allies*.
I suppose Putin would be happy. He’d be able to cash in a ‘buy one, get one free’ coupon on the referendum victory he’s alleged to have bought.

*I think I got the terminology right.

Mellsblue wrote:I think most Cons realise, and most candidates have said, that going to the country before sorting Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt due to so much of the Con vote moving to BP. I’d imagine a GE will only be called if parliament force it.
I think most MPs realise, and most candidates have said, that a GE before Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt. A govt headed by an all powerful (within the Lab party due to delivering a GE win and a new tranche of Corbynite MPs) Corbyn who hates the EU capitalist cabal and it’s imperialist allies*.
I suppose Putin would be happy. He’d be able to cash in a ‘buy one, get one free’ coupon on the referendum victory he’s alleged to have bought.

*I think I got the terminology right.

I believe it's "capitalist running dogs", but I take your point.

I'm not sure a GE before Brexit is necessarily a recipe for Labour. Corbyn has upset a lot of the Labour base with his equivocation and they'll lose votes to Lib Dem and Green all over the place, as well as just losing votes to people who came out for the first time in 2017 and now feel betrayed.

In addition, I can see Johnson Tory party running on a No Deal manifesto to head off Brexit Party and have Farage stand down declaring victory.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I think most Cons realise, and most candidates have said, that going to the country before sorting Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt due to so much of the Con vote moving to BP. I’d imagine a GE will only be called if parliament force it.
I think most MPs realise, and most candidates have said, that a GE before Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt. A govt headed by an all powerful (within the Lab party due to delivering a GE win and a new tranche of Corbynite MPs) Corbyn who hates the EU capitalist cabal and it’s imperialist allies*.
I suppose Putin would be happy. He’d be able to cash in a ‘buy one, get one free’ coupon on the referendum victory he’s alleged to have bought.

*I think I got the terminology right.

I believe it's "capitalist running dogs", but I take your point.

I'm not sure a GE before Brexit is necessarily a recipe for Labour. Corbyn has upset a lot of the Labour base with his equivocation and they'll lose votes to Lib Dem and Green all over the place, as well as just losing votes to people who came out for the first time in 2017 and now feel betrayed.

In addition, I can see Johnson Tory party running on a No Deal manifesto to head off Brexit Party and have Farage stand down declaring victory.

Puja

They won Peterborough, a barometer constituency, even with an anti-Semite/someone thick enough to comment on numerous FB posts without ‘reading them’. I’d agree that Johnson might run on a no deal platform. This along with deselections in both Lab and Con and you could end up with a Parliament with a decent chunk of MPs who actually hate the EU whilst, at present that demographic is a small minority.

Mellsblue wrote:I think most Cons realise, and most candidates have said, that going to the country before sorting Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt due to so much of the Con vote moving to BP. I’d imagine a GE will only be called if parliament force it.
I think most MPs realise, and most candidates have said, that a GE before Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt. A govt headed by an all powerful (within the Lab party due to delivering a GE win and a new tranche of Corbynite MPs) Corbyn who hates the EU capitalist cabal and it’s imperialist allies*.
I suppose Putin would be happy. He’d be able to cash in a ‘buy one, get one free’ coupon on the referendum victory he’s alleged to have bought.

*I think I got the terminology right.

I don't think you're wrong, but what's the other options? They don't have the support in the house to get a deal approved without a minor miracle. They go towards No Deal, eventually the House will take back control and there'll probably be a GE anyway.

Even if it isn't policy for them, they have to set forth on the assumption one is quite likely.

And while Peterborough is a good sign for Labour, they had 450+ activists on the street before 11am in the town that day. They can't replicate that everywhere in a GE.

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I think most Cons realise, and most candidates have said, that going to the country before sorting Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt due to so much of the Con vote moving to BP. I’d imagine a GE will only be called if parliament force it.
I think most MPs realise, and most candidates have said, that a GE before Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt. A govt headed by an all powerful (within the Lab party due to delivering a GE win and a new tranche of Corbynite MPs) Corbyn who hates the EU capitalist cabal and it’s imperialist allies*.
I suppose Putin would be happy. He’d be able to cash in a ‘buy one, get one free’ coupon on the referendum victory he’s alleged to have bought.

*I think I got the terminology right.

I don't think you're wrong, but what's the other options?

F**k knows. I wouldn’t be posting drivel on here if I had the answer!
I suppose we have to hope that the next PM is a miracle worker. A long shot, I know. I suppose we have to hope the non-Bojo candidate gets the nod (another long shot) or Boris shoots himself in the foot over the next couple of weeks (may be our best hope). Some of those with a more sensible Brexit policy might be able to get the parliamentary numbers. For example, if Hancock wins (a very long shot) I think his Brexit policy could allow both the EU and the ERG to make only small moves that might get us over the line.
Long story short, we need Boris to blowup in the next couple of weeks. Of those left, other than Raab who stands no chance, he’s the only one who has managed to burn his bridges with the EU.

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I think most Cons realise, and most candidates have said, that going to the country before sorting Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt due to so much of the Con vote moving to BP. I’d imagine a GE will only be called if parliament force it.
I think most MPs realise, and most candidates have said, that a GE before Brexit is a recipe for a Lab govt. A govt headed by an all powerful (within the Lab party due to delivering a GE win and a new tranche of Corbynite MPs) Corbyn who hates the EU capitalist cabal and it’s imperialist allies*.
I suppose Putin would be happy. He’d be able to cash in a ‘buy one, get one free’ coupon on the referendum victory he’s alleged to have bought.

*I think I got the terminology right.

I don't think you're wrong, but what's the other options?

F**k knows. I wouldn’t be posting drivel on here if I had the answer!
I suppose we have to hope that the next PM is a miracle worker. A long shot, I know. I suppose we have to hope the non-Bojo candidate gets the nod (another long shot) or Boris shoots himself in the foot over the next couple of weeks (may be our best hope). Some of those with a more sensible Brexit policy might be able to get the parliamentary numbers. For example, if Hancock wins (a very long shot) I think his Brexit policy could allow both the EU and the ERG to make only small moves that might get us over the line.
Long story short, we need Boris to blowup in the next couple of weeks. Of those left, other than Raab who stands no chance, he’s the only one who has managed to burn his bridges with the EU.

It is genuinely astonishing that he's got as far as he has without shooting himself in the foot and I very much share your hope that he does.

But I think even a Hancock will end up going back to the people unless something astonishing happens.

I used the word astonishing too much in that post but really can't think of a better one for the circs.

Peat wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Peat wrote:
I don't think you're wrong, but what's the other options?

F**k knows. I wouldn’t be posting drivel on here if I had the answer!
I suppose we have to hope that the next PM is a miracle worker. A long shot, I know. I suppose we have to hope the non-Bojo candidate gets the nod (another long shot) or Boris shoots himself in the foot over the next couple of weeks (may be our best hope). Some of those with a more sensible Brexit policy might be able to get the parliamentary numbers. For example, if Hancock wins (a very long shot) I think his Brexit policy could allow both the EU and the ERG to make only small moves that might get us over the line.
Long story short, we need Boris to blowup in the next couple of weeks. Of those left, other than Raab who stands no chance, he’s the only one who has managed to burn his bridges with the EU.

It is genuinely astonishing that he's got as far as he has without shooting himself in the foot and I very much share your hope that he does.

But I think even a Hancock will end up going back to the people unless something astonishing happens.

I used the word astonishing too much in that post but really can't think of a better one for the circs.

It’s only because he’s done virtually nothing so far. If he turns he to the debate on Tuesday things could get interesting.

So the first round of voting for the next Tory leader is over and there's good and bad news.

The good is that Leadsom and McVey are both out. Leadsom is frankly not capable of tying her own shoelaces and McVey is a closet ukipper.

The bad is that Boris is a long way ahead, although he isn't uncatchable. If we assume that the ERG and other nutters have decided to back Boris, then there are are other votes that could head his way from McVey and Raab (assuming he falls at some point), but more votes may coalesce around a stop Boris candidate. Its possible that 2 other candidates will oust Johnson, although it will probably require Boris to shoot himself in the foot again.

Boris is developing a Trump-like immunity to consequences nowadays. Here is a sourced list of 80+ bigoted, untrue, and embarrassing things Boris has said - the author compiled it as a take-that, but I'm just finding it depressing that he's got away with so much and is still likely to be PM.



Puja

Johnson is a proven liar, a shameless chancer and lazy charlatan who isnt fit to be an MP, let alone be PM.

Of course the Tories will make him their leader.

fivepointer wrote:Johnson is a proven liar, a shameless chancer and lazy charlatan who isnt fit to be an MP, let alone be PM.

Of course the Tories will make him their leader.

lol.

He is the perfect representation of the modern Tory party. Almost the anti-Thatcher...

Brexit's gonna be fucking grim, we may as well have something/someone to laugh at while we suffer. Out of all the Brexiteer candidates, Boris is the only one I can watch talk, because he at least has a sense of humour.

That said, I wouldn't vote for him, and I think that Rory Stewart is the best candidate. He's an interesting character, apparently he walked through the middle east from Turkey to Bangladesh when he was young https://youtu.be/ng4nw-tdOZw?t=131, staying with locals. The actions of someone who wants to understand people, and is curious of other cultures (without just wanting to sound clever like Boris does).