RugbyRebels

Which Tyler wrote:

Stom wrote:Meanwhile, I plan a trip to the UK on December 2nd. I emailed the consulate because my wife and kids do not currently have passports (we are yet to travel outside the EU since they've been born, so why would we) to ask whether we'd be able to travel on ID cards or if we needed passports, and if so, how long would it take for the kids to get their British passports.

Their reply...

We sympathise with your situation...

blah blah blah.

Basically, they have as much clue as the rest of us. Omnishambles.

We do know - as of Saturday - Freedom of movement stops on October 31st
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... e-a9064376

Free movement for EU citizens will end on day one of a no-deal Brexit, under new Home Office plans – despite warnings of chaos and of people trapped in legal limbo.

Priti Patel, the new hardline home secretary, is pressing for border restrictions to be imposed immediately on 31 October, even though no replacement system is ready, The Independent has been told.

Previously, ministers had intended to delay scrapping free movement until new rules are in place, with a bill stuck in the Commons and fierce rows over what those rules should be.

...

But that's the thing: we don't know that! As the govt. have denied it already.

What "advice" could that creature possibly give? Conspiracy theory for beginners? How to stay awake at meetings after downing a litre of bourbon? More pointedly, what manner of spunk basket would actively seek him out for guidance?

Stom wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Stom wrote:Meanwhile, I plan a trip to the UK on December 2nd. I emailed the consulate because my wife and kids do not currently have passports (we are yet to travel outside the EU since they've been born, so why would we) to ask whether we'd be able to travel on ID cards or if we needed passports, and if so, how long would it take for the kids to get their British passports.

Their reply...

We sympathise with your situation...

blah blah blah.

Basically, they have as much clue as the rest of us. Omnishambles.

We do know - as of Saturday - Freedom of movement stops on October 31st
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... e-a9064376

Free movement for EU citizens will end on day one of a no-deal Brexit, under new Home Office plans – despite warnings of chaos and of people trapped in legal limbo.

Priti Patel, the new hardline home secretary, is pressing for border restrictions to be imposed immediately on 31 October, even though no replacement system is ready, The Independent has been told.

Previously, ministers had intended to delay scrapping free movement until new rules are in place, with a bill stuck in the Commons and fierce rows over what those rules should be.

...

But that's the thing: we don't know that! As the govt. have denied it already.

This was the full text of the email I got:

Thank you for your enquiry of 14/08/2019 07:00 .

We sympathise with your situation and your desire for clarity.

EU identity cards would remain valid for travel to the UK initially. Although there would be no immediate change, as we introduce the new UK immigration system from 1 January 2021, we would no longer guarantee that EU citizens will be able to use a national identity card to enter the UK. This would support the Home Office’s attempts to streamline border processes and better secure the UK's borders.

Stom wrote:This was the full text of the email I got:

Thank you for your enquiry of 14/08/2019 07:00 .

We sympathise with your situation and your desire for clarity.

EU identity cards would remain valid for travel to the UK initially. Although there would be no immediate change, as we introduce the new UK immigration system from 1 January 2021, we would no longer guarantee that EU citizens will be able to use a national identity card to enter the UK. This would support the Home Office’s attempts to streamline border processes and better secure the UK's borders.

Have you a link for the denial / retraction? I'm not seeing anything (I'm also at work, so haven't time for to trawl); I did get this from yesterday: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49393556
"The UK government has said EU free movement rules will end immediately if there is a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. "

Of course, the official position is still that we'll get a deal, despite every single piece of evidence in existence.

I would point out that that email is dated 4 days before the government announcement that "freedom of movement stops on day 1".

Which Tyler wrote:

Stom wrote:This was the full text of the email I got:

Thank you for your enquiry of 14/08/2019 07:00 .

We sympathise with your situation and your desire for clarity.

EU identity cards would remain valid for travel to the UK initially. Although there would be no immediate change, as we introduce the new UK immigration system from 1 January 2021, we would no longer guarantee that EU citizens will be able to use a national identity card to enter the UK. This would support the Home Office’s attempts to streamline border processes and better secure the UK's borders.

Have you a link for the denial / retraction? I'm not seeing anything (I'm also at work, so haven't time for to trawl); I did get this from yesterday: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49393556
"The UK government has said EU free movement rules will end immediately if there is a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. "

Of course, the official position is still that we'll get a deal, despite every single piece of evidence in existence.

I would point out that that email is dated 4 days before the government announcement that "freedom of movement stops on day 1".

You're right, it was a badly worded paragraph on the Granuaid - my fault for taking something they said without reading it twice.

It's all insane. It takes more than 3 months for me to get Hungarian citizenship, so I will have 3 citizenships soon as I will apply for Irish - otherwise I'd need to pay £8 to enter the EU and wait at least 90 minutes to enter the country.

I don't know what will happen with my wife.

And my kids now need to apply for British passports, a situation that is complicated by the fact they've made it more difficult to get British passports as they're all made in bloody Germany, ffs!

Stom wrote:You're right, it was a badly worded paragraph on the Granuaid - my fault for taking something they said without reading it twice.

No problem - it happens, and these days, nothing is too weird to not be true.

Good luck getting something sorted for you family though.

So Boris is meeting Macron today, the most dubious EU leader when it comes to extending deadlines.

Do we think his strategy might be tomoiss off Macron so much that even if a GNU is out together, Macron will still refuse to extend the deadline whilst we have an election?

The ERG would likely agree with you the French are the most dubious in the EU. It is hard to see what else the EU can practically offer us if they want to keep borders to a viable ongoing EU project.

Either we need to part with NI, or the EU needs to be ripped apart. I suppose there's some sense of fun in the idea the Conservative and Unionist party could well have sundered the union and made the Tories unelectable in the process, but it doesn't seem much compensation

Digby wrote:The ERG would likely agree with you the French are the most dubious in the EU. It is hard to see what else the EU can practically offer us if they want to keep borders to a viable ongoing EU project.

Either we need to part with NI, or the EU needs to be ripped apart. I suppose there's some sense of fun in the idea the Conservative and Unionist party could well have sundered the union and made the Tories unelectable in the process, but it doesn't seem much compensation

They can't see to get their heads around this fact. Either that or they really do understand that they can't push the EU any further in this matter and are just looking for ways to blame the EU for a no deal Brexit. Sun and Daily Hate readers will probably fall for it.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:The ERG would likely agree with you the French are the most dubious in the EU. It is hard to see what else the EU can practically offer us if they want to keep borders to a viable ongoing EU project.

Either we need to part with NI, or the EU needs to be ripped apart. I suppose there's some sense of fun in the idea the Conservative and Unionist party could well have sundered the union and made the Tories unelectable in the process, but it doesn't seem much compensation

They can't see to get their heads around this fact. Either that or they really do understand that they can't push the EU any further in this matter and are just looking for ways to blame the EU for a no deal Brexit. Sun and Daily Hate readers will probably fall for it.

I suppose Ireland could leave the EU too, but if we're claiming this is about national sovereignty then it's very weird to expect other nations to have to act in favour of our decisions and contrary to their own wishes. Though there's plenty of thinking on the Tory right that Ireland is but a British vassal

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:The ERG would likely agree with you the French are the most dubious in the EU. It is hard to see what else the EU can practically offer us if they want to keep borders to a viable ongoing EU project.

Either we need to part with NI, or the EU needs to be ripped apart. I suppose there's some sense of fun in the idea the Conservative and Unionist party could well have sundered the union and made the Tories unelectable in the process, but it doesn't seem much compensation

They can't see to get their heads around this fact. Either that or they really do understand that they can't push the EU any further in this matter and are just looking for ways to blame the EU for a no deal Brexit. Sun and Daily Hate readers will probably fall for it.

It's been clear to me for some time that this is the case. Dominic Cumming as PM's SPAD? It's a no-brainer.

And thus the plan is revealed, instead of one meeting a week we're going to have two between David Frost (our chief Brexit negotiator) and the EU. No actual details on what will be discussed, merely there will be more discussion and this will up-tempo the new deal talks.

I'm actually a little surprised they were only meeting once a week, but unless we have a different offering for the EU it's not easy to see what would change in the outcome of these talks.

The Court of Session has refused to issue an Interim Interdict ahead of a full hearing to rule on the proroguing of Parliament.
The QC is arguing that the PM should be required to submit a signed affidavit describing his reasons for the proroguing, which I am sure is something that Johnson will not willingly submit to, as it requires telling the truth.

Seeing quite a lot of protests being organised for tomorrow late-morning.
Cheltenham is the easiest for me to get to

Map of this weekend's protests: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mi ... 371899&z=6

Placard done, just got to print and glue in the morning (no printer at home). I've never actually protested before.

Stop the coup d'e twat 

Which Tyler wrote:Map of this weekend's protests: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mi ... 371899&z=6

Placard done, just got to print and glue in the morning (no printer at home). I've never actually protested before.

Stop the coup d'e twat 

I may go and join in in Perth. I’ve never even thought about protesting before, but I can honestly say that this got my dander up.

Stones of granite wrote:[

I can honestly say that this got my dander up.

Bloody hell. Be careful. With language like that you’ll blow your cover as an undercover Tory.

Make sure you all pack some sandwiches.

morepork wrote:Make sure you all pack some sandwiches.

...and a mac

I was going to take a pork pie, sturdier in the rain I'd suggest

Digby wrote:I was going to take a pork pie, sturdier in the rain I'd suggest

I'll have to pop in to Icelands

Cheltenham at lunchtime (unfortunately, I do wander across in front of the camera):

Preeti Patel is a still a useless psychopathic dick.

Being a psychopathic stooge is no excuse.

So, according to Gove, if Government passes a law that is inconvenient for Johnson/Cummings, they may decide to just ignore it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49541942
Another win for "take back control"

ETA, what would be the repercussions?
Constitutional crisis
Demonstrations turning into riots?

Within the commons, could we see an MP attempting a citizen's arrest on Boris? Could the cops be called? Armed police?

If an act has passed commons, lords, and commons a second time, but the PM refuses to send for royal signature - is it already law? Or just precedent? Would a law actually be being broken? Is it treason?


Or what would be the repercussions if, rather than sending it to Queenie, he called a GE at that point - delayed into November (double the usual length of time for campaigning, with parliament closed)

Per the Sunday Times, if parliament passes a law demanding the govt. ask the EU for an extension then Johnson will use the UK’s veto to kill any extension. If that were to happen we’d surely have reached peak Brexit and I will simultaneously both laugh and cry.