RugbyRebels

Too easy to moan about the ref and it is distracting from a poor performance. It was a game that we should have won but we really kicked our get our of jail card away on 78minutes.

It was a clear red card for Zander. When you tuck your shoulder, are off your feet and take aim at a pile of bodies I don't think someone moving a couple of inches is sufficient mitigation.

Read an interesting point on prices kick if it’s 10m longer than zammit is in trouble and Hogg is chasing it but I agree we needed to stay there look to milk a penalty or go for a drop

I actually don't and didn't have a problem with the ref... yeah he missed a few things but so what he's only human. We lost our minds and that game in the 3rd quarter, or rather Wales won it by being the better team over the whole 80 minutes and taking their chances where they could.

What has me screaming in frustration is that ,once again, we showed that were good enough to do better but don't have the mentality to actually do better. We have everything we need but are just refusing to use it and blaming the others by way of distraction.

Rugby as an allegory for life in Scotland? Hmmmm

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So that might be Hastings out of the rest of the 6N with a red card. Glasgow conceeding the bonus point before half time seems less of an issue as it was almost expected

switchskier wrote:So that might be Hastings out of the rest of the 6N with a red card. Glasgow conceeding the bonus point before half time seems less of an issue as it was almost expected

On the other hand, Glasgow attack hasn't looked this good all season.
Grant Stewart and Huw Jones playing well.
Both wingers looking promising.

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switchskier wrote:So that might be Hastings out of the rest of the 6N with a red card. Glasgow conceeding the bonus point before half time seems less of an issue as it was almost expected

Silly red card.

Jones looked very sharp.

Hastings was an idiot.

Adder wrote:

switchskier wrote:So that might be Hastings out of the rest of the 6N with a red card. Glasgow conceeding the bonus point before half time seems less of an issue as it was almost expected

On the other hand, Glasgow attack hasn't looked this good all season.
Grant Stewart and Huw Jones playing well.
Both wingers looking promising.

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Yeah, they actually looked like they might draw level in that second half (even a man down) before Ioane's stupid yellow. Ross Thompson also looks very assured and it was nice for McLean to get his first try.

Can't see Hastings' red card being overturned. Seemed to try to raise his leg (protectively-ish, which seems to be the done thing nowadays, but lost his balance and effectively kicked the guy in the face. Was looking very good before that.

Big D wrote:Jones looked very sharp.

Hastings was an idiot.

To clarify my earlier post, I dont think Hastings was silly in the slightest.

He lost balance and accidentally caught the guy with his boot. Not a red card in my book.

ARM wrote:

Big D wrote:Jones looked very sharp.

Hastings was an idiot.

To clarify my earlier post, I dont think Hastings was silly in the slightest.

He lost balance and accidentally caught the guy with his boot. Not a red card in my book.

It is a red card and been a red card for a while. There have been other reds in exactly that situation. I was probably harsh in my statement but doesn't make it any less of a red.

It was a red but these things happen and with refs more willing to use them I think it’s time to change them to an orange and at least not cripple the team for a reckless/dangerous mistimed hit.

I think then you could have mitigation down for things like this and accidental tips etc and not for punches or cheap shots

Big D wrote:

ARM wrote:

Big D wrote:Jones looked very sharp.

Hastings was an idiot.

To clarify my earlier post, I dont think Hastings was silly in the slightest.

He lost balance and accidentally caught the guy with his boot. Not a red card in my book.

It is a red card and been a red card for a while. There have been other reds in exactly that situation. I was probably harsh in my statement but doesn't make it any less of a red.

I disagree. Not dangerous foul play. Similar to Evans red card for Ospreys (also Frank Murphy).

On that precedent will be a four week ban.

it was a red, no way to believe anything else. I think I can guarantee it will not be appealed

whatisthejava wrote:It was a red but these things happen and with refs more willing to use them I think it’s time to change them to an orange and at least not cripple the team for a reckless/dangerous mistimed hit.

I think then you could have mitigation down for things like this and accidental tips etc and not for punches or cheap shots

the whole system needs root and branch overhaul, but the orange card is an opportunity for a ref to cop out.

The point of how the sanctions are employed isn't just punishment, its to try to change behaviour, dangerous or wreckless are just as dangerous if not clamped down on.

septic 9 wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:It was a red but these things happen and with refs more willing to use them I think it’s time to change them to an orange and at least not cripple the team for a reckless/dangerous mistimed hit.

I think then you could have mitigation down for things like this and accidental tips etc and not for punches or cheap shots

the whole system needs root and branch overhaul, but the orange card is an opportunity for a ref to cop out.

The point of how the sanctions are employed isn't just punishment, its to try to change behaviour, dangerous or wreckless are just as dangerous if not clamped down on.

The orange card also gives more room for inconsistencies. Refs have a hard enough time as it is. I think a middle sanction would just make things harder and give fans more opportunity to complain - not that we need an excuse.

switchskier wrote:
The orange card also gives more room for inconsistencies. Refs have a hard enough time as it is. I think a middle sanction would just make things harder and give fans more opportunity to complain - not that we need an excuse.

More inconsistency?

Would that even be possible

I feel sorry for refs, they are human but are clearly out of their depths dealing with everything they have to and their just isn't the quality there. I think the orange card is the best option because it punishes the player but not the team

ARM wrote:

Big D wrote:

ARM wrote:
To clarify my earlier post, I dont think Hastings was silly in the slightest.

He lost balance and accidentally caught the guy with his boot. Not a red card in my book.

It is a red card and been a red card for a while. There have been other reds in exactly that situation. I was probably harsh in my statement but doesn't make it any less of a red.

I disagree. Not dangerous foul play. Similar to Evans red card for Ospreys (also Frank Murphy).

On that precedent will be a four week ban.

There was no mitigating factors, no one touched him or caused his foot up that high.

By the laws of the game it is a red and at least the 2nd red card I've seen for it.

whatisthejava wrote:

switchskier wrote:
The orange card also gives more room for inconsistencies. Refs have a hard enough time as it is. I think a middle sanction would just make things harder and give fans more opportunity to complain - not that we need an excuse.

More inconsistency?

Would that even be possible

I feel sorry for refs, they are human but are clearly out of their depths dealing with everything they have to and their just isn't the quality there. I think the orange card is the best option because it punishes the player but not the team

It adds another shade of grey for the ref to incorporate.

What happens when a ref issues an orange to one team and a red for a very similar offence?

Teams deserve to be punished for their players transgressions. It is a team game and red cards are supposed to hurt.

How about coaching players not to tuck their arms and launch into rucks? Not get carded for a high tackle on a fully upright second row (Aus v Arg) etc.

I really don’t think giving refs more flexibility is a bad thing when it comes and the benefit of the orange is it takes into account that
the player is still off the pitch
The player should still get banned like it’s a red
The team doesn’t almost automatically lose the game if it happens between 0-55 and not 55-80

whatisthejava wrote:I really don’t think giving refs more flexibility is a bad thing when it comes and the benefit of the orange is it takes into account that
the player is still off the pitch
The player should still get banned like it’s a red
The team doesn’t almost automatically lose the game if it happens between 0-55 and not 55-80

call me an old cynic but I can imagine a scenario where a certain player is tasked with injuring the opposition star player, in the knowledge that his team only go a man down for 20mins. Not punching or kicking, just a mistimed tackle in the air, or a shoulder to a head in a ruck or any number of cases. All "accidental". Maybe.

And this orange card concept is driven by those who see a red as ruining a match as a spectacle; take that on board and give a ref an opt out and he'll take it. We have then changed the ref's role even more - to officially managing the spectacle being more important than his first responsibility, the safety of the players

I don't give a flying fuck if a red card ruins a game as a spectacle - the spectacle is not on the same planet of importance as player safety.

whatisthejava wrote:I really don’t think giving refs more flexibility is a bad thing when it comes and the benefit of the orange is it takes into account that
the player is still off the pitch
The player should still get banned like it’s a red
The team doesn’t almost automatically lose the game if it happens between 0-55 and not 55-80

More flexibility leads to more grey areas. It is part of the reason the game is as hard to ref as it is.

If a player is sent off at any point of the game then I don't see the issue. They have done something that is illegal and more often than not been reckless and endangered safety.

The only time I would think an orange card is ok, is if it is for two yellows for technical offences.

Seems to me we shouldn't be focussing on refs so much as we should be focussing on players and coaches. It's their behaviour that needs to change, not refs.

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septic 9 wrote: call me an old cynic but I can imagine a scenario where a certain player is tasked with injuring the opposition star player, in the knowledge that his team only go a man down for 20mins. Not punching or kicking, just a mistimed tackle in the air, or a shoulder to a head in a ruck or any number of cases. All "accidental". Maybe.

Can you name a player not called Callum Clarke who would do this. I think some guys love to smash, Jason White, Lawes etc , but i think none of them would go out to go all "sweep the leg" and take a guy out.

whatisthejava wrote:

septic 9 wrote: call me an old cynic but I can imagine a scenario where a certain player is tasked with injuring the opposition star player, in the knowledge that his team only go a man down for 20mins. Not punching or kicking, just a mistimed tackle in the air, or a shoulder to a head in a ruck or any number of cases. All "accidental". Maybe.

Can you name a player not called Callum Clarke who would do this.

Hmm... Harry Ellis comes to mind, from a few years back certainly.
One or two bods sporting (ha) a green jersey.(REDACTED).

Tobylerone wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

septic 9 wrote: call me an old cynic but I can imagine a scenario where a certain player is tasked with injuring the opposition star player, in the knowledge that his team only go a man down for 20mins. Not punching or kicking, just a mistimed tackle in the air, or a shoulder to a head in a ruck or any number of cases. All "accidental". Maybe.

Can you name a player not called Callum Clarke who would do this.

Hmm... Harry Ellis comes to mind, from a few years back certainly.
One or two bods sporting (ha) a green jersey.(REDACTED).

funnily enough one or two bods sporting a green jersey have not been slow to accuse others of exactly this