England v Wales - Team Announcement

[Puja]

I've given up trying to decipher what these squads even mean. Is Curry injured?

Full squad here: https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... allow-week

Seems to just be admitting that we're not using the fallow weekend for anything much and have sent anyone who wants a rest or needs a gamehome. No Marler, no Curry, no Ford, no Cowan-Dickie, and instead the likes of Goodrick-Clarke and Ludlow are brought in to make up the numbers.

Puja

[FKAS]

Will Goodrick-Clarke?!

Puja

Marler released back to Quins so they presumably need someone to make up the numbers in training.

[p/d]

I've given up trying to decipher what these squads even mean. Is Curry injured?

Curry HIA protocol, LCD injured, Marler required by Quins and Ford, well, to watch Burns

[Gloskarlos]

Ludlow called up ? wtf? to hold tackle bags and be sent back to his club again? Captain and talisman absent from a crucial game this weekend on a whim. As will be the same for others. quite ridficulous.

[Mellsblue]

Ludlow called up ? wtf? to hold tackle bags and be sent back to his club again? Captain and talisman absent from a crucial game this weekend on a whim. As will be the same for others. quite ridficulous.

One of the times reporters reckons Jones lurves Ludlow’s leadership skills so much that he’s contemplating taking him to the RWC to play the minnows and, primarily, to work his magic in camp. Perhaps with so many of his leadership group injured he felt he needed Ludlow in camp. Who knows with Jones. Shite for Glos, I agree.

[Oakboy]

Yet again, it says, 'Jonny Hill will continue his rehab in camp'. It does not seem to be doing him much good!

[32nd Man]

Yet again, it says, 'Jonny Hill will continue his rehab in camp'. It does not seem to be doing him much good!

There must be a few medical teams at clubs around the country who's blood runs cold when that is suggested.

[Banquo]

I think Ford is limited in an England shirt. Can’t help thinking Jones feels the same.

I think Eddie limits Ford in an England shirt. What do YOU mean?

[Banquo]

Unless Farrell was on the pitch???

Nah - Ford would have spotted it, bossed people into making the play, and then Farrell would have kicked it anyway...

I do hope Smith can develop that part of his game more, much like Ford has done.

It feels like a lot of us (well, at least 3) are saying similar things - his vision is brilliant around his channel, and not so good at the wider picture.
A lot of FHs who start like that end up playing a dozen or so club matches at FB to gain that early on - too late for Smith to do that now, but it might have been a good option in retrospect (though, of course, he came into the Quins 10 shirt through injury, so the option wasn't there when he was being eased in)

Let me enjoy this Farrell-less period in peace and witbout reminders, please

Lest we forget

Who are you thinking of there? I can think of a few who have played 12 to enable that sort of scanning without the pressure of decision making....

[Banquo]

Or, are the players just thick?

"

I think there is an element of that in this group tbh.

[Banquo]

Comedic that Malins starts and stays at wing ahead of Daly tbh.

[Which Tyler]

Who are you thinking of there? I can think of a few who have played 12 to enable that sort of scanning without the pressure of decision making....

Specifically...
Cipriani.

To a degree, as part of their development in general (without knowing if they had problems with wider vision) Devoto & Bailey - albeit that Devoto ended up at 12 anyway

But yes, fair point on playing 12 for a bit to reduce pressure as well.

[Banquo]

Who are you thinking of there? I can think of a few who have played 12 to enable that sort of scanning without the pressure of decision making....

Specifically...
Cipriani.

To a degree, as part of their development in general (without knowing if they had problems with wider vision) Devoto & Bailey - albeit that Devoto ended up at 12 anyway

But yes, fair point on playing 12 for a bit to reduce pressure as well.

I just couldn't remember it happening a great deal if at all. Not sure that was why Cips was put there either, I think it was more about getting him and another good player on the park. Many players have done the 12 to 10 piece (and vice versa ).

[Which Tyler]

I think it was Devoto when it was specifically mentioned to improve his vision of the whole field.
I may well have made unfounded assumptions from there - and probably applied the same thoughts to those FHs getting game time at 12&13 whilst being introduced.

[Mellsblue]

Sounds like you’re all rooting for George Furbank to finalise his (inevitable) ascent to the England 10 shirt and to World Cup glory.

[francoisfou]

I think Ford is limited in an England shirt. Can’t help thinking Jones feels the same.

I think Eddie limits Ford in an England shirt. What do YOU mean?

Indeed! Ford has been the best English fly half for a while now who had the misfortune to have the Iceman at inside centre to “lend a guiding hand”. Thank God that Smith has not had that burden - yet.

[FKAS]

I think Ford is limited in an England shirt. Can’t help thinking Jones feels the same.

I think Eddie limits Ford in an England shirt. What do YOU mean?

Indeed! Ford has been the best English fly half for a while now who had the misfortune to have the Iceman at inside centre to “lend a guiding hand”. Thank God that Smith has not had that burden - yet.

Wasn't just Owen "Iceman" Farrell either he had Slade at 13 as well. Two playmaking centres who wouldn't run a line and a break three that was all speed. Talking about being thrown to the wolves. Worst thing was Eddie would drop Ford, move Farrell to 12 and then bring in Lawrence over that period. I'm sure George watched on thinking it would be nice if he could have a power option to hold the opposition defence, not that Lawrence got the chance with Farrell at 10.

[p/d]

I think Eddie limits Ford in an England shirt. What do YOU mean?

Indeed! Ford has been the best English fly half for a while now who had the misfortune to have the Iceman at inside centre to “lend a guiding hand”. Thank God that Smith has not had that burden - yet.

Wasn't just Owen "Iceman" Farrell either he had Slade at 13 as well. Two playmaking centres who wouldn't run a line and a break three that was all speed. Talking about being thrown to the wolves. Worst thing was Eddie would drop Ford, move Farrell to 12 and then bring in Lawrence over that period. I'm sure George watched on thinking it would be nice if he could have a power option to hold the opposition defence, not that Lawrence got the chance with Farrell at 10.

Now that I fully agree with. Hence my concerns with saddling Smith with Slade and Daly.

[Oakboy]

It's easy to forget that, in bringing Smith in, Jones elected to choose between Ford and Farrell and picked the latter. We still constantly debate the merits of the two but I can't see Jones changing his mind.

[Scrumhead]

Indeed! Ford has been the best English fly half for a while now who had the misfortune to have the Iceman at inside centre to “lend a guiding hand”. Thank God that Smith has not had that burden - yet.

Wasn't just Owen "Iceman" Farrell either he had Slade at 13 as well. Two playmaking centres who wouldn't run a line and a break three that was all speed. Talking about being thrown to the wolves. Worst thing was Eddie would drop Ford, move Farrell to 12 and then bring in Lawrence over that period. I'm sure George watched on thinking it would be nice if he could have a power option to hold the opposition defence, not that Lawrence got the chance with Farrell at 10.

Now that I fully agree with. Hence my concerns with saddling Smith with Slade and Daly.

But your solution is to play Marchant at 12 which makes no sense whatsoever.

Slade might be better at 13 than he is at 12, but at least he has some experience of playing at 12. Marchant has none. Why play two players in a position they’re not as good in? I just don’t get it

[p/d]

It's easy to forget that, in bringing Smith in, Jones elected to choose between Ford and Farrell and picked the latter. We still constantly debate the merits of the two but I can't see Jones changing his mind.

To be fair Farrell was a dead cert. It was between Ford and Smith. I think we have to accept, when fit, Farrell will be captain again playing wing

[Spiffy]

Wasn't just Owen "Iceman" Farrell either he had Slade at 13 as well. Two playmaking centres who wouldn't run a line and a break three that was all speed. Talking about being thrown to the wolves. Worst thing was Eddie would drop Ford, move Farrell to 12 and then bring in Lawrence over that period. I'm sure George watched on thinking it would be nice if he could have a power option to hold the opposition defence, not that Lawrence got the chance with Farrell at 10.

Now that I fully agree with. Hence my concerns with saddling Smith with Slade and Daly.

But your solution is to play Marchant at 12 which makes no sense whatsoever.

Slade might be better at 13 than he is at 12, but at least he has some experience of playing at 12. Marchant has none. Why play two players in a position they’re not as good in? I just don’t get it

Apart from the shirt numbers, and who plays where, Slade and Marchant just don't look that great at international level. And before someone asks who should be picked instead - I don't really know. The cupboard is looking quite bare.

[FKAS]

It's easy to forget that, in bringing Smith in, Jones elected to choose between Ford and Farrell and picked the latter. We still constantly debate the merits of the two but I can't see Jones changing his mind.

Farrell plays two positions and Ford only one. Farrell will be favourite to return as bit captain and more versatile. Having Farrell in the squad gives Eddie more options re the bench and with our lack of an obvious 12 he's still going to start there.

[Mikey Brown]

I know virtually nobody agrees with me on this but I also think Farrell is a really good option coming off the bench in terms of the voice and physicality he brings.

He will follow Jones’s plan to the letter, but sometimes that doesn’t play out from the start, coming on at 55 when something in the game needs addressing I think he’d actually be perfect for that. Smiths challenge should be to see if he can really run a game at this level the way Ford can, in the meantime.

Moot point though as (was said above) if Farrell is fit (even half fit) he starts as captain.

[32nd Man]

I reckon Slade and Marchant outside Smith or Ford can work at International level, but it needs genuine pace / power wingers outside it to stretch the defence and create gaps.

If the opposition know they can be narrow to choke up space as they will be able to get across to touchline a Norwell type, then you pretty much have to have a Manu type. If their scared they won't be able to cover across due to the pace of a May or Watson, or the size and power of a Cokanasinga, then your more balanced runner passers have a chance.