RugbyRebels

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:28 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:19 am

francoisfou wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:42 pm

Ha! I'm trying to imagine Itoje and Chessum hoisting Bumbling Billy V!

or, more usefully, Curry....

or a backrower with long arms

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:42 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:28 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:19 am

or, more usefully, Curry....

or a backrower with long arms

sounds armless

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:05 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:42 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:28 am

or a backrower with long arms

sounds armless

More like armful.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:05 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:42 am
sounds armless

More like armful.

armageddon bored

morepork wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:35 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:05 pm

More like armful.

armageddon bored

Cheer up. It's not the end of the world.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:44 pm Whilst we’re kicking and crying at Twickers the best player in the world is off to play Sevens, and expand his skill set, at the Olympics.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/france-c ... 023-11-16/

monkey wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:16 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:44 pm Whilst we’re kicking and crying at Twickers the best player in the world is off to play Sevens, and expand his skill set, at the Olympics.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/france-c ... 023-11-16/

Oh wow. It had been rumoured for a while (and I think was even discussed during the RWC coverage a bit). But I hadn’t realised the plan involved him missing things like the 6Ns. I’d kind of assumed the FRA were going to buy him out of club rugby or something like that!

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:19 pm

monkey wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:16 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:44 pm Whilst we’re kicking and crying at Twickers the best player in the world is off to play Sevens, and expand his skill set, at the Olympics.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/france-c ... 023-11-16/

Oh wow. It had been rumoured for a while (and I think was even discussed during the RWC coverage a bit). But I hadn’t realised the plan involved him missing things like the 6Ns. I’d kind of assumed the FRA were going to buy him out of club rugby or something like that!

Does his decision reflect the general French opinion of the 6N or is there a hint of sour grapes following their RWC failure?

badback wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:24 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:18 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:54 pm

You see...I feel like that's the exact thinking that led us to this mess in the first place.

Only SA have a scrum. It's literally just them. If our entire thing is building up the part of our game that's going to nullify SA, that's the exact same thing we've been doing these past 8 years, and look where that got us.

No, if we want to compete, we need to improve our all round game and execution. And THEN add on the one world class element.

And while SA have shown that POWER can be the thing right now, that's not always going to be the case. If we can get ahead of the curve, we can win and win for a long time. But that means we don't just react to what just happened.

England rugby obviously needs to work on core skills and execution. Without that, we'll never get anywhere.

as I sort of think you are saying, it doesn't need to be one thing OR another. The whole skill of rugby selection and prep is/used to be the ability to vary game plan, and adjust to opposition during the game; I say used to be, because huge benches with tactical subs has somewhat neutered that (and SA in particular have really exploited that).

Exactly. Not saying copy SA. Just saying important to have forwards for tight as well as wide game.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:54 am The age profile of the squad and the fact that we have a few moving to France means we’re likely to see about a third of this squad change for the 6N.

Likely/confirmed retirements: Marler, Cole, Lawes, Youngs, Care, May

Time to move on: Farrell, Daly, Tuilagi, Watson

Ineligible: Ribbans, J. Willis, Marchant

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 8:43 am We won't move away from the kick chase game plan. We might well add to it when our new attack coach arrives.

Collier hasn't got the work rate to play in a Borthwick team. Eddie famously subbed him early in a game for the same reason. For Cole's limitations he's very good at getting up and back into the line time and time again. That being said I can't see his swansong continuing so we'll be looking at Painter or Heyes.

What will be interesting is to see the number 8 role and selection come the 6N. Previously Borthwick has been desperately trying to unearth a physically dominant 8. A young BillyV or an EQ Jasper Weise. It didn't happen and the old BillyV has been a let down. With Earl at 8 that role has evolved. If it stays the way it is, does it then bring back in the more mobile 8s that didn't make the cut initially. Could be great news for Mercer for instance.

16th man wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:00 am

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:21 pm

16th man wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:01 pm One of the big positives to come out of the world cup has been Earls showing what a bit of speed and dynamism off the back of the scrum can offer.

Hopefully he'll have provided an evidence base to convince Smoked Bratwurst that there is another way to having a big bloke running straight at the line to try to tie in multiple tacklers, and we can stop trying a rotating cast of unsuitable players trying to replicate 2016-19 Vunipola.

If we're ditching Lawes, and Martin looks like he can do the Kruis job next to Itoje, rather than dicking about as a 4/6 hybrid, then a backrow of Earl, Curry, Mercer, Ludlum, Willis, with Pearson or even someone like Chessum being used as an extra bulk at 6 if needed, looks like a solid approach to building a unit over the next 4 years. Assuming Curry's body doesn't stand up to another 4 years, we need to get one of the other athletes to be as good a reader of the game.

You know what's crazy? Tom curry is only 25. I did not realise that, he must have had a tough paper round. You'd think he'd be about for 2027 though.

Like Watson, bits of him are 25, but some rather important parts are increasingly patched up.

He may well be able to more naturally reshape and adapt to another role in the backrow, but he's at his best when he's mobile enough to get in place to maximise his phenomenal ability to read the game. I'd question how much longer he can do that for at the rate he seems to get banged up at.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:54 am The age profile of the squad and the fact that we have a few moving to France means we’re likely to see about a third of this squad change for the 6N.

Likely/confirmed retirements: Marler, Cole, Lawes, Youngs, Care, May

Time to move on: Farrell, Daly, Tuilagi, Watson

Ineligible: Ribbans, J. Willis, Marchant

Foxtrot Oscar: B. Vunipola

I have a strange feeling Farrell might retire from England duty, but if not, we need to minimise his role.

The only ‘senior players’ I’d want to keep around are George and Ford, mostly for transition purposes. I could actually see Ford sticking around as the experienced 10 guiding the Smiths etc.

At a fundamental level, I think we need to take a step back and look at what we have. We aren’t a big, bullying pack and many of our better players are wasted in a kick chase system. When I look at Kolbe and Arendse playing for SA and Graham playing for Scotland, I think ‘Murley or Radwan could do something like that for us’.

My 6 Nations squad would be:

1. Genge / Rodd / VRR (or Obano)
2. George* / Dan / McGuigan**
3. Sinckler / Stuart / Collier***
4. Itoje / Isiekwe (or Coles)
5. O. Chessum / Martin
6. T. Curry / Ludlam
7. Earl / Pearson
8. Mercer / T. Willis
9. Mitchell / JvP / Quirke
10. M. Smith / Ford
11. Murley / OHC
12. Kelly / Atkinson
13. Lawrence / Slade
14. Radwan
15. Steward / Arundell

*For transition
**I know he’s not young, but he has less miles on the clock and is better than Walker or Blamire IMO
***Replaces Cole’s role of ‘I’m just here for scrums’

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:42 pm I’m a big fan of Launchbury, but a recall would be a poor decision. We need to develop some of our younger locks. If a lock plays 6, I think it’s probably more likely that Ollie Chessum or Alex Coles takes that role.

@puja or @FKAS will know better but I’m not sure Lewis Chessum has played for Tigers yet this season, so I doubt he’s in contention.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:42 pm I’m a big fan of Launchbury, but a recall would be a poor decision. We need to develop some of our younger locks. If a lock plays 6, I think it’s probably more likely that Ollie Chessum or Alex Coles takes that role.

@puja or @FKAS will know better but I’m not sure Lewis Chessum has played for Tigers yet this season, so I doubt he’s in contention.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:29 pm One name which hasn't come up much on this thread is Olly Hartley.

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:39 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:29 pm One name which hasn't come up much on this thread is Olly Hartley.

For me, and I know this is an unpopular opinion - it's too soon. This is looking like being his breakthrough season, which makes it a full year too early to start capping him.

As ever, every player needs a chance to suffer / shrug off Second Season Syndrome before I would consider them for international rugby - or they simply risk being exposed, much more brutally than they ever would be suffering actual SSS at club level and out of the spotlight.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:08 pm I agree. I’m absolutely not endorsing the idea (hence my comment ‘if a lock plays 6’), just suggesting that Chessum or Coles are more likely candidates than Itoje.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:07 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:39 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:29 pm One name which hasn't come up much on this thread is Olly Hartley.

For me, and I know this is an unpopular opinion - it's too soon. This is looking like being his breakthrough season, which makes it a full year too early to start capping him.

As ever, every player needs a chance to suffer / shrug off Second Season Syndrome before I would consider them for international rugby - or they simply risk being exposed, much more brutally than they ever would be suffering actual SSS at club level and out of the spotlight.

Yep.

Has he really displaced Tompkins or is he just being used at 13 in Lozowski’s absence?

Insouciant wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:56 pm Tuilagi is likely out of the start of 6 nations with injury. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67836548.

No Marchant, (potentially) no Tuilagi & no Farrell in the centres for start of the tournament. It will be interesting to see where Snowy Blitzen goes with selection.