RugbyRebels

Mellsblue wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: I thought that the suggestion that UK could veto the extension had already been shot down?

Has it? I must have missed that. That is good then.

Thank you - good knowledge!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

canta_brian wrote: Has it? I must have missed that. That is good then.

Thank you - good knowledge!

Puja

Thank you. I can copy and paste a link to almost anything these days. Ah, you meant Don Walsh, didn’t you.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Thank you - good knowledge!

Puja

Thank you. I can copy and paste a link to almost anything these days. Ah, you meant Don Walsh, didn’t you.

You knew where that particular knowledge was to be found, which was a step above anyone else in the conversation.

Puja

Makes sense, surely you can’t veto your own request, otherwise why bring it.

Sandydragon wrote:Makes sense, surely you can’t veto your own request, otherwise why bring it.

You could request one thing, then get something different back e.g. a longer term.

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Makes sense, surely you can’t veto your own request, otherwise why bring it.

You could request one thing, then get something different back e.g. a longer term.

I believe the bill has those eventualities covered.
But it's highly, highly unlikely to be a lo get delay as that plays into the next EU budget talks, leaving them not knowing how much €€€ they have to distribute. Though I guess they couldmoffer a 5 year extension...

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Makes sense, surely you can’t veto your own request, otherwise why bring it.

You could request one thing, then get something different back e.g. a longer term.

I believe the bill has those eventualities covered.
But it's highly, highly unlikely to be a lo get delay as that plays into the next EU budget talks, leaving them not knowing how much €€€ they have to distribute. Though I guess they couldmoffer a 5 year extension...

I'd read different, but who knows. Stinking pile of shyte

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote: You could request one thing, then get something different back e.g. a longer term.

I believe the bill has those eventualities covered.
But it's highly, highly unlikely to be a longer delay as that plays into the next EU budget talks, leaving them not knowing how much €€€ they have to distribute. Though I guess they couldmoffer a 5 year extension...

I'd read different, but who knows. Stinking pile of shyte

As you say, who knows, but this is what the BBC think:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49612757
"What if the EU asks for a different date?

Mr Benn's bill sets the length of any further extension to three months.

But if the other EU states respond with a different date, Mr Johnson would be forced to accept it unless MPs vote to reject it within two days."

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote: I believe the bill has those eventualities covered.
But it's highly, highly unlikely to be a longer delay as that plays into the next EU budget talks, leaving them not knowing how much €€€ they have to distribute. Though I guess they couldmoffer a 5 year extension...

I'd read different, but who knows. Stinking pile of shyte

As you say, who knows, but this is what the BBC think:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49612757
"What if the EU asks for a different date?

Mr Benn's bill sets the length of any further extension to three months.

But if the other EU states respond with a different date, Mr Johnson would be forced to accept it unless MPs vote to reject it within two days."

Have to also look to EU law, which has precedence. That talks to UK govt, rather than Parliament. I have no idea though, and it’s a sorry state to get to this.

Banquo wrote: Have to also look to EU law, which has precedence. That talks to UK govt, rather than Parliament. I have no idea though, and it’s a sorry state to get to this.

Of course. The EU can offer any extension they like, or none at all.
My understanding though, is that the Benn bill means that the government has to either accept what it's offered, or put it to a parliamentary vote. Our government doesn't have the authority to reject it without parliamentary support - which is kinda the point.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote: Have to also look to EU law, which has precedence. That talks to UK govt, rather than Parliament. I have no idea though, and it’s a sorry state to get to this.

Of course. The EU can offer any extension they like, or none at all.
My understanding though, is that the Benn bill means that the government has to either accept what it's offered, or out it to a parliamentary vote. Our government doesn't have the authority to reject it without parliamentary support - which is kinda the point.

This is what I have read, too.
Times have a story that the rebel alliance - ridiculous name - have struck agreement with the EU that a three month extension will definitely be granted.
The Spartans - ridiculous name - have, predictably, lost their s**t with ridiculous things such as:

Which Tyler wrote:Also, someone made this, not an original comparison, but well put together.

BBC reporting that Amber Rudd has just resigned from the government citing unfair treatment of rebel Conservative MPs.

I did wonder when she would remember any principles she might once have had.

Sandydragon wrote:BBC reporting that Amber Rudd has just resigned from the government citing unfair treatment of rebel Conservative MPs.

I did wonder when she would remember any principles she might once have had.

Quitting the party as well
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49623737

There must be other moderate tories aghast at what's happened to their party. How many will have the courage of their conditions, and how many will keep their head down and support their team?

Sandydragon wrote:BBC reporting that Amber Rudd has just resigned from the government citing unfair treatment of rebel Conservative MPs.

I did wonder when she would remember any principles she might once have had.

Difficult to influence from the outside. I was hoping she’d help bring some sense to the cabinet table. Rather than remembering her principles she’s probably abandoning ship not to detonate future prospects.

I do wonder "what if" the 21 + Rudd + Soubrey, Boles, Allen could set up a rump Tory party for the moderates.
They've certainly got enough names and experience to do it, and presumably there are some activists and donors who'd follow. I believe GoFundMe cant be used for political fundraising, by it I'm damned sure they could set something up.
If some of the other moderate tories had a natural home to go to which they didn't feel was a betrayal of their team (especially if they feel betrayed by their team), with people they know and trust. How big could that party get and how quickly?
Start with the 25 above, it would already be the 4th biggest party in Westminster, and wouldn't need many more to overtake the SNP.

Johnson can probably count on the ERG, but anyone else? In the face of a natural home led by the likes of Hammond Rudd, Clarke, Stewart, Soames... Especially if Cummings sticks to his current tactics of pissing off all is allies-of-convenience?

Which Tyler wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:BBC reporting that Amber Rudd has just resigned from the government citing unfair treatment of rebel Conservative MPs.

I did wonder when she would remember any principles she might once have had.

Quitting the party as well
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49623737

There must be other moderate tories aghast at what's happened to their party. How many will have the courage of their conditions, and how many will keep their head down and support their team?

I'd say that the Conservative party is disintegrating. Except that it's actually becoming the Brexit party. How long before Farage cuts a deal with BJ and joins?

Son of Mathonwy wrote: I'd say that the Conservative party is disintegrating. Except that it's actually becoming the Brexit party. How long before Farage cuts a deal with BJ and joins?

But, I like the term "schism" - it's etymologically satisfying.

And yes, it does look like BJ is determined to become the Brexit Party without Farage (Cummings wouldn't let that bit change, though he'd probably like Banks' millions) it leaves a gaping hole for a new centre-right party to take.

Labour to the left, Lib Dem centre left, ToryRump centre right, Conservative to the right.

It's certainly... interesting times

There is plenty of talk about those who have been booted out but aren’t standing down running on a Independent Conservative ticket at the next GE with the intention of coming back once the Spartans - have I mentioned what a ridiculous name that is - have been ousted. Small whispers of just breaking off completely and forming a Liberal Conservative party. I think the latter is a grassroots ops and the former the preferred plan for the MPs.

Mellsblue wrote:There is plenty of talk about those who have been booted out but aren’t standing down running on a Independent Conservative ticket at the next GE with the intention of coming back once the Spartans - have I mentioned what a ridiculous name that is - have been ousted. Small whispers of just breaking off completely and forming a Liberal Conservative party. I think the latter is a grassroots ops and the former the preferred plan for the MPs.

I thought standing as "Independent Conservative" is the default position for those not standing down. I hadn't realised that there was actual talk of forming a new liberal conservative party - so far it had all been my speculation and a few others playing "what if".
You'd have to wondering so some like Clarke or Soames would feel reinvigorated by starting a new party, and decide to stand one more time if that was the case (it must be much harder to motivate for an independent run)


As for the names - if you're going to call the people you've kicking out "the Rebel alliance", then you don't get to chose "Spartans" for yourself - you have tomown that you've just named yourselves "the evil empire"
And yes, all such name options are challenging "WhateverGate" for cringe worthiness and should be banned by any swear-filters

Mellsblue wrote:the Spartans - have I mentioned what a ridiculous name that is

A bunch of tossers with a born-to-rule mentality that worked tirelessly to maintain an order that rigidly enforced a small number of people holding the majority of the wealth at the expense of the masses, who eventually had to compromise their ideals and went, not so much into a decline, but into an outright freefall because of dwindling numbers, worshipped by pathetic shitfucks?

Ridiculous? Maybe. But oddly appropriate.

Which Tyler wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:There is plenty of talk about those who have been booted out but aren’t standing down running on a Independent Conservative ticket at the next GE with the intention of coming back once the Spartans - have I mentioned what a ridiculous name that is - have been ousted. Small whispers of just breaking off completely and forming a Liberal Conservative party. I think the latter is a grassroots ops and the former the preferred plan for the MPs.

I thought standing as "Independent Conservative" is the default position for those not standing down. I hadn't realised that there was actual talk of forming a new liberal conservative party - so far it had all been my speculation and a few others playing "what if".
You'd have to wondering so some like Clarke or Soames would feel reinvigorated by starting a new party, and decide to stand one more time if that was the case (it must be much harder to motivate for an independent run)


As for the names - if you're going to call the people you've kicking out "the Rebel alliance", then you don't get to chose "Spartans" for yourself - you have tomown that you've just named yourselves "the evil empire"
And yes, all such name options are challenging "WhateverGate" for cringe worthiness and should be banned by any swear-filters

Plenty aren’t ready to give up and just stand as Independent Conservatives, P Hammond being the most vocal about it.
The Liberal Conservative chat is very much grassroots but, from what I’ve heard there is some minor interest from MPs who are complete f**ked off with the situation and think the right of the party has completely taken over.
I think Clarke and those of a similar age have decided it’s time to hand the torch to the youngsters. I don’t blame them.

cashead wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:the Spartans - have I mentioned what a ridiculous name that is

A bunch of tossers with a born-to-rule mentality that worked tirelessly to maintain an order that rigidly enforced a small number of people holding the majority of the wealth at the expense of the masses, who eventually had to compromise their ideals and went, not so much into a decline, but into an outright freefall because of dwindling numbers, worshipped by pathetic shitfucks?

Ridiculous? Maybe. But oddly appropriate.

It was more the fact they chose it as they saw themselves as some sort of warrior grouping when in fact they are fronted by a short fat man and two skinny men with a combined weight of 10 stone.
Shall we get started on what their left wing contemporaries call themselves? They’re all dicks.

Which Tyler wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:BBC reporting that Amber Rudd has just resigned from the government citing unfair treatment of rebel Conservative MPs.

I did wonder when she would remember any principles she might once have had.

Quitting the party as well
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49623737

There must be other moderate tories aghast at what's happened to their party. How many will have the courage of their conditions, and how many will keep their head down and support their team?

It was truly weird that she and Hancock had stayed mute, it cannot possibly be something they agree with. I was even a little worried about Amber until now

Digby wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:BBC reporting that Amber Rudd has just resigned from the government citing unfair treatment of rebel Conservative MPs.

I did wonder when she would remember any principles she might once have had.

Quitting the party as well
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49623737

There must be other moderate tories aghast at what's happened to their party. How many will have the courage of their conditions, and how many will keep their head down and support their team?

It was truly weird that she and Hancock had stayed mute, it cannot possibly be something they agree with. I was even a little worried about Amber until now

Rudd hadn’t stayed mute. She was very vocal about it.