Eng v SA Match thread

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Timbo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Timbo »

Sandydragon wrote:
Digby wrote:
p/d wrote:
Indeed. Hardly a mountain to climb v a poor Oz side.
Simply a massive physical effort against Oz to hold that attack and then again against Nz, SA had it easy against Japan and Wales, Wales could have been physical but merely joined SA in kicking the ball in the air, I've seen more physical games of balloon tennis
After one of the easiest groups in World Cup history, two easy games, an Argentinian team that self destructed and a cancelled game against France and your moaning about being knackered. With a bonus week off I’m not sure you can use that excuse.

You lost today because your power game got taken away from you and when under pressure many of your players did stupid things.

This has happened before on a few occasions. If your coach needs to develop something, it’s your ability to react to pressure.
Trying my best to stay impartial....but having to beat Oz, the All Blacks and South Africa 3 weeks running in knock out rugby is about as tough as it gets.

Surely there’s nothing to debate about that?
Mikey Brown
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Mikey Brown »

I know I shouldn't expect anything less, but I read this player ratings article for the world cup as a whole and 'Youngs - 7, Ford - 7, Farrell - 8' just absolutely kills me. Ford 'failed to impose himself' in the final.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50275994

So that's Farrell outperforming Ford, Underhill, George, May, Watson, Lawes. I can't begin to imagine what is a) they saw, or b) I missed.

Farrell joins Itoje, Sinkler, Curry and Tuilagi at the top of the pile with an 8. I know this is meaningless, it's just clickbait drivel, but there's something we're not seeing and I would love to understand it. Even assuming Farrell is a 10/10 as a captain and on-field motivator, I just can't work it out. I keep reading that he looks out of position at 12, which I totally understand, but to me he looks the same at 10.
SixAndAHalf
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by SixAndAHalf »

Mikey Brown wrote:I know I shouldn't expect anything less, but I read this player ratings article for the world cup as a whole and 'Youngs - 7, Ford - 7, Farrell - 8' just absolutely kills me. Ford 'failed to impose himself' in the final.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50275994

So that's Farrell outperforming Ford, Underhill, George, May, Watson, Lawes. I can't begin to imagine what is a) they saw, or b) I missed.

Farrell joins Itoje, Sinkler, Curry and Tuilagi at the top of the pile with an 8. I know this is meaningless, it's just clickbait drivel, but there's something we're not seeing and I would love to understand it. Even assuming Farrell is a 10/10 as a captain and on-field motivator, I just can't work it out. I keep reading that he looks out of position at 12, which I totally understand, but to me he looks the same at 10.
I've also noticed that RugbyPass had him in their team of the tournament ahead of De Allende and Kerevi. Quotes like "came into his own in pressure games" and "executing and making the right decisions" which to me appear the typical stock phrases used when describing Farrell.

I strongly believe if Ford had a kicking performance like Farrell against Argentina or missed a pressure kick like the one against South Africa it would be mentioned frequently.

I thought during the World Cup the narrative in the press was turning towards a more neutral analysis, in particular in comparison to Ford, but alas that does not seem to be the case following the loss.

Often I do wonder if I am missing something given the consistent praise by the national media but find solace in reading these message boards to discover I am not alone in my more sceptical position.

Like many on here I recognise Farrell is an international class player but what riles me is the consistent labelling as "world class" and treatment as such and when I challenge someone to explain why they often struggle to provide me with anything substantive. As I mentioned before I do think he has a lot of positive attributes but his main stand out skill is probably his scramble defence which isn't near the top of my list of attributes I would want in a fly half.
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Spiffy
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Spiffy »

It just happenes that every now and again, an English sporting figure becomes idolised by the media (and many fans) for no apparent reason - perhaps a single, early good performance etc, and the reputation just sticks, no matter how that player is performing. Farrell falls into that category and I don't expect anything to change until he retires. The gushing superlatives will continue and the poor performances ignored, or explained away as someone else's fault. The Emperor will continue to wear his new clothes.
For me a good comparison in football would be David Beckham, who is actually still idolised. A vastly overrated player who could do two things - cross a ball from the right and kick a dead ball, but had no dribbling skills, could not beat a man one-on-one and was painfully slow.
This is just media-induced adulation. The part time fans and those who really don't understand the game, lap it up. The more astute observers (e.g. here) tell it like it is, but it makes no difference. Better get used to it.
Timbo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Timbo »

Spiffy wrote:It just happenes that every now and again, an English sporting figure becomes idolised by the media (and many fans) for no apparent reason - perhaps a single, early good performance etc, and the reputation just sticks, no matter how that player is performing. Farrell falls into that category and I don't expect anything to change until he retires. The gushing superlatives will continue and the poor performances ignored, or explained away as someone else's fault. The Emperor will continue to wear his new clothes.
For me a good comparison in football would be David Beckham, who is actually still idolised. A vastly overrated player who could do two things - cross a ball from the right and kick a dead ball, but had no dribbling skills, could not beat a man one-on-one and was painfully slow.
This is just media-induced adulation. The part time fans and those who really don't understand the game, lap it up. The more astute observers (e.g. here) tell it like it is, but it makes no difference. Better get used to it.
Yeah, that might make sense if the media were actually picking the Saracens and England teams. How does media adulation explain the fact that McCall, Lancaster, Gatland and Eddie Jones have all built teams around him?
p/d
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by p/d »

Timbo wrote:
Spiffy wrote:
Yeah, that might make sense if the media were actually picking the Saracens and England teams. How does media adulation explain the fact that McCall, Lancaster, Gatland and Eddie Jones have all built teams around him?
Have they? If so you can make a similar case for Itoje and Mako
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Mellsblue
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Mellsblue »

p/d wrote:
Timbo wrote:
Spiffy wrote:
Yeah, that might make sense if the media were actually picking the Saracens and England teams. How does media adulation explain the fact that McCall, Lancaster, Gatland and Eddie Jones have all built teams around him?
Have they? If so you can make a similar case for Itoje and Mako
Look. We all know Saracens have built their team around their one true world class player: Jackson Wray.
p/d
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by p/d »

Mellsblue wrote:
p/d wrote:
Timbo wrote:
Have they? If so you can make a similar case for Itoje and Mako
Look. We all know Saracens have built their team around their one true world class player: Jackson Wray.
What was I thinking.
Timbo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Timbo »

p/d wrote:
Timbo wrote:
Spiffy wrote:
Yeah, that might make sense if the media were actually picking the Saracens and England teams. How does media adulation explain the fact that McCall, Lancaster, Gatland and Eddie Jones have all built teams around him?
Have they? If so you can make a similar case for Itoje and Mako
Yeah....

I don’t get the relevance.
SixAndAHalf
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by SixAndAHalf »

I think it's hard to argue that Eddie and Gatland have "built their team" around Farrell considering they have principally played him at 12 rather than his favoured position of fly half.

I think it's recognised that he is an international class player and with his leadership skills it is no surprise that they want him in their teams (especially considering the lack of alternate options at 12) but I don't recall them praising him as effusively as the media do (not that Gatland and Jones are the type to rain superlatives down on any of their players).
Timbo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Timbo »

Some serious cases of cognitive dissonance going on here.
fivepointer
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by fivepointer »

SixAndAHalf wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:I know I shouldn't expect anything less, but I read this player ratings article for the world cup as a whole and 'Youngs - 7, Ford - 7, Farrell - 8' just absolutely kills me. Ford 'failed to impose himself' in the final.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50275994

So that's Farrell outperforming Ford, Underhill, George, May, Watson, Lawes. I can't begin to imagine what is a) they saw, or b) I missed.

Farrell joins Itoje, Sinkler, Curry and Tuilagi at the top of the pile with an 8. I know this is meaningless, it's just clickbait drivel, but there's something we're not seeing and I would love to understand it. Even assuming Farrell is a 10/10 as a captain and on-field motivator, I just can't work it out. I keep reading that he looks out of position at 12, which I totally understand, but to me he looks the same at 10.
I've also noticed that RugbyPass had him in their team of the tournament ahead of De Allende and Kerevi. Quotes like "came into his own in pressure games" and "executing and making the right decisions" which to me appear the typical stock phrases used when describing Farrell.

I strongly believe if Ford had a kicking performance like Farrell against Argentina or missed a pressure kick like the one against South Africa it would be mentioned frequently.

I thought during the World Cup the narrative in the press was turning towards a more neutral analysis, in particular in comparison to Ford, but alas that does not seem to be the case following the loss.

Often I do wonder if I am missing something given the consistent praise by the national media but find solace in reading these message boards to discover I am not alone in my more sceptical position.

Like many on here I recognise Farrell is an international class player but what riles me is the consistent labelling as "world class" and treatment as such and when I challenge someone to explain why they often struggle to provide me with anything substantive. As I mentioned before I do think he has a lot of positive attributes but his main stand out skill is probably his scramble defence which isn't near the top of my list of attributes I would want in a fly half.
Surprised by Alex Shaw's analysis in Rugby pass. He's usually pretty sensible.

We will never agree about Farrell on here. I think he's over rated and, at best, an occasional 7 out of 10 international performer but dammit plenty of really knowledgable and experienced people in the game really rate him. Its hard to find any coach, former or current player or a decent pundit who wouldnt pick him.

I've come to the conclusion whatever it is i'm not seeing and its probably my fault.
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Mellsblue
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Mellsblue »

fivepointer wrote:
SixAndAHalf wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:I know I shouldn't expect anything less, but I read this player ratings article for the world cup as a whole and 'Youngs - 7, Ford - 7, Farrell - 8' just absolutely kills me. Ford 'failed to impose himself' in the final.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50275994

So that's Farrell outperforming Ford, Underhill, George, May, Watson, Lawes. I can't begin to imagine what is a) they saw, or b) I missed.

Farrell joins Itoje, Sinkler, Curry and Tuilagi at the top of the pile with an 8. I know this is meaningless, it's just clickbait drivel, but there's something we're not seeing and I would love to understand it. Even assuming Farrell is a 10/10 as a captain and on-field motivator, I just can't work it out. I keep reading that he looks out of position at 12, which I totally understand, but to me he looks the same at 10.
I've also noticed that RugbyPass had him in their team of the tournament ahead of De Allende and Kerevi. Quotes like "came into his own in pressure games" and "executing and making the right decisions" which to me appear the typical stock phrases used when describing Farrell.

I strongly believe if Ford had a kicking performance like Farrell against Argentina or missed a pressure kick like the one against South Africa it would be mentioned frequently.

I thought during the World Cup the narrative in the press was turning towards a more neutral analysis, in particular in comparison to Ford, but alas that does not seem to be the case following the loss.

Often I do wonder if I am missing something given the consistent praise by the national media but find solace in reading these message boards to discover I am not alone in my more sceptical position.

Like many on here I recognise Farrell is an international class player but what riles me is the consistent labelling as "world class" and treatment as such and when I challenge someone to explain why they often struggle to provide me with anything substantive. As I mentioned before I do think he has a lot of positive attributes but his main stand out skill is probably his scramble defence which isn't near the top of my list of attributes I would want in a fly half.
Surprised by Alex Shaw's analysis in Rugby pass. He's usually pretty sensible.

We will never agree about Farrell on here. I think he's over rated and, at best, an occasional 7 out of 10 international performer but dammit plenty of really knowledgable and experienced people in the game really rate him. Its hard to find any coach, former or current player or a decent pundit who wouldnt pick him.

I've come to the conclusion whatever it is i'm not seeing and its probably my fault.
Someone on here had a bit of a Twatter spat with Shaw over a mark out ten he gave Farrell. Can’t remember after which match. Shaw said that he was totally unbiased and impartial and that the RR poster couldn’t possibly be.
Digby
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Digby »

Alex Shaw is clearly the sort of nonce who names a team 15-9 and then 1-8, these people are never to be trusted on anything.
Beasties
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Beasties »

Self doubt's a terrible thing. Stay strong fp.
Banquo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Banquo »

Timbo wrote:
Spiffy wrote:It just happenes that every now and again, an English sporting figure becomes idolised by the media (and many fans) for no apparent reason - perhaps a single, early good performance etc, and the reputation just sticks, no matter how that player is performing. Farrell falls into that category and I don't expect anything to change until he retires. The gushing superlatives will continue and the poor performances ignored, or explained away as someone else's fault. The Emperor will continue to wear his new clothes.
For me a good comparison in football would be David Beckham, who is actually still idolised. A vastly overrated player who could do two things - cross a ball from the right and kick a dead ball, but had no dribbling skills, could not beat a man one-on-one and was painfully slow.
This is just media-induced adulation. The part time fans and those who really don't understand the game, lap it up. The more astute observers (e.g. here) tell it like it is, but it makes no difference. Better get used to it.
Yeah, that might make sense if the media were actually picking the Saracens and England teams. How does media adulation explain the fact that McCall, Lancaster, Gatland and Eddie Jones have all built teams around him?
What's your own opinion of Faz's skills, ability and impact?
Banquo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Banquo »

fivepointer wrote:
SixAndAHalf wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:I know I shouldn't expect anything less, but I read this player ratings article for the world cup as a whole and 'Youngs - 7, Ford - 7, Farrell - 8' just absolutely kills me. Ford 'failed to impose himself' in the final.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50275994

So that's Farrell outperforming Ford, Underhill, George, May, Watson, Lawes. I can't begin to imagine what is a) they saw, or b) I missed.

Farrell joins Itoje, Sinkler, Curry and Tuilagi at the top of the pile with an 8. I know this is meaningless, it's just clickbait drivel, but there's something we're not seeing and I would love to understand it. Even assuming Farrell is a 10/10 as a captain and on-field motivator, I just can't work it out. I keep reading that he looks out of position at 12, which I totally understand, but to me he looks the same at 10.
I've also noticed that RugbyPass had him in their team of the tournament ahead of De Allende and Kerevi. Quotes like "came into his own in pressure games" and "executing and making the right decisions" which to me appear the typical stock phrases used when describing Farrell.

I strongly believe if Ford had a kicking performance like Farrell against Argentina or missed a pressure kick like the one against South Africa it would be mentioned frequently.

I thought during the World Cup the narrative in the press was turning towards a more neutral analysis, in particular in comparison to Ford, but alas that does not seem to be the case following the loss.

Often I do wonder if I am missing something given the consistent praise by the national media but find solace in reading these message boards to discover I am not alone in my more sceptical position.

Like many on here I recognise Farrell is an international class player but what riles me is the consistent labelling as "world class" and treatment as such and when I challenge someone to explain why they often struggle to provide me with anything substantive. As I mentioned before I do think he has a lot of positive attributes but his main stand out skill is probably his scramble defence which isn't near the top of my list of attributes I would want in a fly half.
Surprised by Alex Shaw's analysis in Rugby pass. He's usually pretty sensible.

We will never agree about Farrell on here. I think he's over rated and, at best, an occasional 7 out of 10 international performer but dammit plenty of really knowledgable and experienced people in the game really rate him. Its hard to find any coach, former or current player or a decent pundit who wouldnt pick him.

I've come to the conclusion whatever it is i'm not seeing and its probably my fault.
I'm in the same boat as you- have to say, most of my rugby mates who know their onions generally also rate Farrell, and above Ford as a 10 and even think he is a quality 12. Timbo's point is very valid- these are excellent coaches who almost invariably stick him in their team somewhere........I guess he's a guy who adheres to coaches instructions and is a positive influence from that point of view, they'd like his competitiveness, and he is an 80% kicker, and a 10 who manages a game for a team on the front foot very efficiently. I'm still baffled by the effusive praise he gets though.
SixAndAHalf
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by SixAndAHalf »

fivepointer wrote:
SixAndAHalf wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:I know I shouldn't expect anything less, but I read this player ratings article for the world cup as a whole and 'Youngs - 7, Ford - 7, Farrell - 8' just absolutely kills me. Ford 'failed to impose himself' in the final.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50275994

So that's Farrell outperforming Ford, Underhill, George, May, Watson, Lawes. I can't begin to imagine what is a) they saw, or b) I missed.

Farrell joins Itoje, Sinkler, Curry and Tuilagi at the top of the pile with an 8. I know this is meaningless, it's just clickbait drivel, but there's something we're not seeing and I would love to understand it. Even assuming Farrell is a 10/10 as a captain and on-field motivator, I just can't work it out. I keep reading that he looks out of position at 12, which I totally understand, but to me he looks the same at 10.
I've also noticed that RugbyPass had him in their team of the tournament ahead of De Allende and Kerevi. Quotes like "came into his own in pressure games" and "executing and making the right decisions" which to me appear the typical stock phrases used when describing Farrell.

I strongly believe if Ford had a kicking performance like Farrell against Argentina or missed a pressure kick like the one against South Africa it would be mentioned frequently.

I thought during the World Cup the narrative in the press was turning towards a more neutral analysis, in particular in comparison to Ford, but alas that does not seem to be the case following the loss.

Often I do wonder if I am missing something given the consistent praise by the national media but find solace in reading these message boards to discover I am not alone in my more sceptical position.

Like many on here I recognise Farrell is an international class player but what riles me is the consistent labelling as "world class" and treatment as such and when I challenge someone to explain why they often struggle to provide me with anything substantive. As I mentioned before I do think he has a lot of positive attributes but his main stand out skill is probably his scramble defence which isn't near the top of my list of attributes I would want in a fly half.
Surprised by Alex Shaw's analysis in Rugby pass. He's usually pretty sensible.

We will never agree about Farrell on here. I think he's over rated and, at best, an occasional 7 out of 10 international performer but dammit plenty of really knowledgable and experienced people in the game really rate him. Its hard to find any coach, former or current player or a decent pundit who wouldnt pick him.

I've come to the conclusion whatever it is i'm not seeing and its probably my fault.
I've heard Flatman say previously that as great as he is, he is our third best pure 10 behind Ford and Cipriani (this was before the World Cup on his podcast with Shanks).
Beasties
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Beasties »

Although Flats is out on his own as a pundit, he does seem to be a lone voice. And he's qualified that with "pure".
Mikey Brown
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Mikey Brown »

I totally get that as a coach having a guy there who will keep driving the team and organising those around is invaluable. When you can’t be in the player’s ears on the field, having a guy like Farrell is surely the next best thing.

I’m just not sure at what point his continued selection convinced pundits that he always makes the right decisions, nails his passes, lands his kicks, makes big impacts in attack etc. He absolutely can do all those things, I’d just love to see it more consistently.
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Spiffy
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Spiffy »

Banquo wrote:
Timbo wrote:
Spiffy wrote:It just happenes that every now and again, an English sporting figure becomes idolised by the media (and many fans) for no apparent reason - perhaps a single, early good performance etc, and the reputation just sticks, no matter how that player is performing. Farrell falls into that category and I don't expect anything to change until he retires. The gushing superlatives will continue and the poor performances ignored, or explained away as someone else's fault. The Emperor will continue to wear his new clothes.
For me a good comparison in football would be David Beckham, who is actually still idolised. A vastly overrated player who could do two things - cross a ball from the right and kick a dead ball, but had no dribbling skills, could not beat a man one-on-one and was painfully slow.
This is just media-induced adulation. The part time fans and those who really don't understand the game, lap it up. The more astute observers (e.g. here) tell it like it is, but it makes no difference. Better get used to it.
Yeah, that might make sense if the media were actually picking the Saracens and England teams. How does media adulation explain the fact that McCall, Lancaster, Gatland and Eddie Jones have all built teams around him?
What's your own opinion of Faz's skills, ability and impact?
Generally a very reliable goalkicker who has won games on this alone.
Decent enough passer, espec. to the left, and this has certainly improved over the past couple of seasons, but not outstsnding.
Reasonable to good as a tactical kicker - but behind Ford Cipriani in this respect. OK touch kicker, who could often eke out a bit more distance.
Not the kind of FH who takes the ball to the line like Ford, then times the perfect pass, but he is getting better at this (plenty of practice.) Lies a tad deep.
Has a bit of an eye for an opening but usually not the gas to get through it. Not a stepper.
In defence makes some crucial tackles but still misses too many. Technique still not great. Good at the scramble (needs to be.)
Still inclined to dogleg in defence and disrupt the line.
Supposed to be a great leader of men and an inspiration to his team. I can see indications of this, but nothing truly outstsnding. Better withthe ref than he used to be.
A tremendous conpetitor and much improved temperament.
A bloke who has worked hard on the basics and probably maximised his inherent skills about as far as they can go, but lacks the natural talent and flair of some other FHs and midfielders.
Overall, quite a good rugby brain but sometimes cannot complete the play he sees is on (like many others)
Good enough to play international rugby as a conservative 10, but rarely lights up a game with a bit of brilliance.
Does not look that comfortable or performs that well as a 12.
Could England construct a team without Farrell at 10 or 12, which would be better than the current team? - Yes, though footballing 12s are currently in short supply.
Generally plays consistently to something around a 6.5- 7 level, sometimes better, sometimes worse.
Banquo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Banquo »

Spiffy wrote:
Banquo wrote:
Timbo wrote:
Yeah, that might make sense if the media were actually picking the Saracens and England teams. How does media adulation explain the fact that McCall, Lancaster, Gatland and Eddie Jones have all built teams around him?
What's your own opinion of Faz's skills, ability and impact?
Generally a very reliable goalkicker who has won games on this alone.
Decent enough passer, espec. to the left, and this has certainly improved over the past couple of seasons, but not outstsnding.
Reasonable to good as a tactical kicker - but behind Ford Cipriani in this respect. OK touch kicker, who could often eke out a bit more distance.
Not the kind of FH who takes the ball to the line like Ford, then times the perfect pass, but he is getting better at this (plenty of practice.) Lies a tad deep.
Has a bit of an eye for an opening but usually not the gas to get through it. Not a stepper.
In defence makes some crucial tackles but still misses too many. Technique still not great. Good at the scramble (needs to be.)
Still inclined to dogleg in defence and disrupt the line.
Supposed to be a great leader of men and an inspiration to his team. I can see indications of this, but nothing truly outstsnding. Better withthe ref than he used to be.
A tremendous conpetitor and much improved temperament.
A bloke who has worked hard on the basics and probably maximised his inherent skills about as far as they can go, but lacks the natural talent and flair of some other FHs and midfielders.
Overall, quite a good rugby brain but sometimes cannot complete the play he sees is on (like many others)
Good enough to play international rugby as a conservative 10, but rarely lights up a game with a bit of brilliance.
Does not look that comfortable or performs that well as a 12.
Could England construct a team without Farrell at 10 or 12, which would be better than the current team? - Yes, though footballing 12s are currently in short supply.
Generally plays consistently to something around a 6.5- 7 level, sometimes better, sometimes worse.
Thanks, but was asking Timbo :)
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Spiffy
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Spiffy »

Banquo wrote:
Spiffy wrote:
Banquo wrote: What's your own opinion of Faz's skills, ability and impact?
Generally a very reliable goalkicker who has won games on this alone.
Decent enough passer, espec. to the left, and this has certainly improved over the past couple of seasons, but not outstsnding.
Reasonable to good as a tactical kicker - but behind Ford Cipriani in this respect. OK touch kicker, who could often eke out a bit more distance.
Not the kind of FH who takes the ball to the line like Ford, then times the perfect pass, but he is getting better at this (plenty of practice.) Lies a tad deep.
Has a bit of an eye for an opening but usually not the gas to get through it. Not a stepper.
In defence makes some crucial tackles but still misses too many. Technique still not great. Good at the scramble (needs to be.)
Still inclined to dogleg in defence and disrupt the line.
Supposed to be a great leader of men and an inspiration to his team. I can see indications of this, but nothing truly outstsnding. Better withthe ref than he used to be.
A tremendous conpetitor and much improved temperament.
A bloke who has worked hard on the basics and probably maximised his inherent skills about as far as they can go, but lacks the natural talent and flair of some other FHs and midfielders.
Overall, quite a good rugby brain but sometimes cannot complete the play he sees is on (like many others)
Good enough to play international rugby as a conservative 10, but rarely lights up a game with a bit of brilliance.
Does not look that comfortable or performs that well as a 12.
Could England construct a team without Farrell at 10 or 12, which would be better than the current team? - Yes, though footballing 12s are currently in short supply.
Generally plays consistently to something around a 6.5- 7 level, sometimes better, sometimes worse.
Thanks, but was asking Timbo :)
Woops - my mistake. Sorry to intrude (wasted a lot of time too.)
Banquo
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Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by Banquo »

Spiffy wrote:
Banquo wrote:
Spiffy wrote:
Generally a very reliable goalkicker who has won games on this alone.
Decent enough passer, espec. to the left, and this has certainly improved over the past couple of seasons, but not outstsnding.
Reasonable to good as a tactical kicker - but behind Ford Cipriani in this respect. OK touch kicker, who could often eke out a bit more distance.
Not the kind of FH who takes the ball to the line like Ford, then times the perfect pass, but he is getting better at this (plenty of practice.) Lies a tad deep.
Has a bit of an eye for an opening but usually not the gas to get through it. Not a stepper.
In defence makes some crucial tackles but still misses too many. Technique still not great. Good at the scramble (needs to be.)
Still inclined to dogleg in defence and disrupt the line.
Supposed to be a great leader of men and an inspiration to his team. I can see indications of this, but nothing truly outstsnding. Better withthe ref than he used to be.
A tremendous conpetitor and much improved temperament.
A bloke who has worked hard on the basics and probably maximised his inherent skills about as far as they can go, but lacks the natural talent and flair of some other FHs and midfielders.
Overall, quite a good rugby brain but sometimes cannot complete the play he sees is on (like many others)
Good enough to play international rugby as a conservative 10, but rarely lights up a game with a bit of brilliance.
Does not look that comfortable or performs that well as a 12.
Could England construct a team without Farrell at 10 or 12, which would be better than the current team? - Yes, though footballing 12s are currently in short supply.
Generally plays consistently to something around a 6.5- 7 level, sometimes better, sometimes worse.
Thanks, but was asking Timbo :)
Woops - my mistake. Sorry to intrude (wasted a lot of time too.)
No genuine thanks as well :)
kk67
Posts: 2117
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:27 pm

Re: Eng v SA Match thread

Post by kk67 »

Good stuff, Mel's. Desire is usually a big factor.

How 1980's. England dicked 2019 England will be a question for the historians. Losing your new found talisman in the first two minutes will freeze a team. Forgetting to play is the result.
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