Team news for Wales

[Mikey Brown]

I’m not sure if this got flagged at the time but just wanted to highlight a particularly stupid Dallaglio moment where he was praising Faz (seemingly) for staying on the pitch with a dead leg.

Seems he hadn’t noticed a) Jones had simply got it wrong with his 6:2 split on the bench b) Farrell has done this a number of times before where he is clearly too injured to continue being effective but stays on anyway.

[Oakboy]

No arm-wrap and shoulder to head initial contact is automatic red with no mitigation according to what I read. Will Jones now get away with publicly criticising the decision as 'rubbish'? What bothers me most is not whether he should or not but that his attitude seems to be in accordance with that of his on-field captain, especially in the first half. That approach is counter-productive and plain wrong. Jones needs to get discipline under control.

Jones has been very silly there. The officials took their time with the decision and it’s fairly clear that it was reckless. I hope Tuilagi doesn’t get a long ban as I feel it wasn’t malicious but Jones May have a difficult conversation about not criticising referees in public so bluntly (and I take the same opinion with the current welsh management before anyone objects).

Jonathan Kaplan suggests that there should have been a yellow for Farrell due to his repeated infringements, the first one was just silly. Also suggests Marler should have received a yellow for his penis grabbing antics.

I don't see any argument against yellow cards for Farrell and Marler. In this era of multiple-camera coverage, players have to understand that nothing is missed. Even what they say can be lip-read. It doesn't matter if some of it seems trivial or PC, it is now a part of the professional environment in which they participate.

[Oakboy]

I’m not sure if this got flagged at the time but just wanted to highlight a particularly stupid Dallaglio moment where he was praising Faz (seemingly) for staying on the pitch with a dead leg.

Seems he hadn’t noticed a) Jones had simply got it wrong with his 6:2 split on the bench b) Farrell has done this a number of times before where he is clearly too injured to continue being effective but stays on anyway.

I did not notice anything until Ford was seen taking the place kick. Farrell took the next one so presumably the injury was nothing much? If the pain kept his mouth shut it might have been a good thing.

[twitchy]

If we just listing incidents parkes could have easily got a yellow for splitting manu's face open.

[Sandydragon]

I’m not sure if this got flagged at the time but just wanted to highlight a particularly stupid Dallaglio moment where he was praising Faz (seemingly) for staying on the pitch with a dead leg.

Seems he hadn’t noticed a) Jones had simply got it wrong with his 6:2 split on the bench b) Farrell has done this a number of times before where he is clearly too injured to continue being effective but stays on anyway.

The Jones subs policy did spring to mind when I heard that comment. By that stage of the game it probably didn’t matter to the result. But with an early sub (unfortunate but it does happen) can bugger up your whole game plan.

[Mellsblue]

The clear out when Curry was tipped legs over head and landed on his shoulders......there’s numerous incidents in each match. Let’s just be gratefully they don’t all get picked up or we’d have to cancel matches due to there not being enough players in the pitch.

[Oakboy]

The clear out when Curry was tipped legs over head and landed on his shoulders......there’s numerous incidents in each match. Let’s just be gratefully they don’t all get picked up or we’d have to cancel matches due to there not being enough players in the pitch.

True, but I do think we have to cut out the really stupid bits of ill-discipline. I can have sympathy for Tuilagi, for example, but none for Farrell or Marler.

[p/d]

Great game. A few players could have been motm and, as much as it hurts to say it, I thought Biggar was outstanding and Curry the pick for us.

No complaints about the cards.

[Spiffy]

Also what's the difference between that Tuilagi failed attempt at a tackle on North and some of those Ireland clearcuts from the previous game? Bar the Ireland hits were more intentional (not that I object to Manu getting a red)

When it comes to sly digs, off-the-ball stuff, obstruction, holding players down, boderline illegal tackling, overall cynical play etc.. England are just about as bad as it gets. I suppose we all see different things depending on where we're coming from. The norm now is do anything you can get away with. Weak reffing reinforces this attitude.

I assume you’re acknowledging Ireland as being right at the top when you say this?

No I am not. Much has been made by irate England fans of just a few incidents in the England/Ireland game (and I agree that Ireland crossed the line on occasion.) But overall, England are just as bad, if not worse, in the use of sly/dangerous tactics. I would say that the bloke who is the biggest serial offender and gets away with most in the whole 6N, is Itoje. And the England captain Farrell is a sad example of how to behave on a rugby pitch.

[morepork]

Itoje is a shocker. His whole game is based around niggle, but he is very measured in doing it. Farrell is just brainless and gets in the way of his own team. Have you ever put Slade in at 12 before?

[Puja]

When it comes to sly digs, off-the-ball stuff, obstruction, holding players down, boderline illegal tackling, overall cynical play etc.. England are just about as bad as it gets. I suppose we all see different things depending on where we're coming from. The norm now is do anything you can get away with. Weak reffing reinforces this attitude.

I assume you’re acknowledging Ireland as being right at the top when you say this?

No I am not. Much has been made by irate England fans of just a few incidents in the England/Ireland game (and I agree that Ireland crossed the line on occasion.) But overall, England are just as bad, if not worse, in the use of sly/dangerous tactics. I would say that the bloke who is the biggest serial offender and gets away with most in the whole 6N, is Itoje. And the England captain Farrell is a sad example of how to behave on a rugby pitch.

Itoje is oftimes a d*ck on the pitch (although as previously mentioned, he seems to have toned that down in the past year) and is consistently pushing the offside line, but I can't recall him being violent or dangerous. Seems an odd example to bring up.

You're spot on for Farrell though.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

The clear out when Curry was tipped legs over head and landed on his shoulders......there’s numerous incidents in each match. Let’s just be gratefully they don’t all get picked up or we’d have to cancel matches due to there not being enough players in the pitch.

Significantly worse than today's card

[Danno]

I assume you’re acknowledging Ireland as being right at the top when you say this?

No I am not. Much has been made by irate England fans of just a few incidents in the England/Ireland game (and I agree that Ireland crossed the line on occasion.) But overall, England are just as bad, if not worse, in the use of sly/dangerous tactics. I would say that the bloke who is the biggest serial offender and gets away with most in the whole 6N, is Itoje. And the England captain Farrell is a sad example of how to behave on a rugby pitch.

Itoje is oftimes a d*ck on the pitch (although as previously mentioned, he seems to have toned that down in the past year) and is consistently pushing the offside line, but I can't recall him being violent or dangerous. Seems an odd example to bring up.

You're spot on for Farrell though.

Puja

This, Itoje seems to know what he is doing and just (juuuuust) about stays the right side of what the ref will allow. Even then, when he is caught out, he isn't petulant about it; takes it on the chin and cracks on, in stark contrast to Farrell, Biggar or O'Mahoney

[Oakboy]

No I am not. Much has been made by irate England fans of just a few incidents in the England/Ireland game (and I agree that Ireland crossed the line on occasion.) But overall, England are just as bad, if not worse, in the use of sly/dangerous tactics. I would say that the bloke who is the biggest serial offender and gets away with most in the whole 6N, is Itoje. And the England captain Farrell is a sad example of how to behave on a rugby pitch.

Itoje is oftimes a d*ck on the pitch (although as previously mentioned, he seems to have toned that down in the past year) and is consistently pushing the offside line, but I can't recall him being violent or dangerous. Seems an odd example to bring up.

You're spot on for Farrell though.

Puja

This, Itoje seems to know what he is doing and just (juuuuust) about stays the right side of what the ref will allow. Even then, when he is caught out, he isn't petulant about it; takes it on the chin and cracks on, in stark contrast to Farrell, Biggar or O'Mahoney

I don't think we will move nearer our performance ceiling till Itoje is captain. The 'Farrell is God bit' just has to go.

[Puja]

Itoje is oftimes a d*ck on the pitch (although as previously mentioned, he seems to have toned that down in the past year) and is consistently pushing the offside line, but I can't recall him being violent or dangerous. Seems an odd example to bring up.

You're spot on for Farrell though.

Puja

This, Itoje seems to know what he is doing and just (juuuuust) about stays the right side of what the ref will allow. Even then, when he is caught out, he isn't petulant about it; takes it on the chin and cracks on, in stark contrast to Farrell, Biggar or O'Mahoney

I don't think we will move nearer our performance ceiling till Itoje is captain. The 'Farrell is God bit' just has to go.

Absolutely agreed on both counts. Listening to Farrell attempt to negotiate with the ref before Genge's yellow card was painful - he just came off sounding like he was either incredibly thick or deliberately pretending not to understand and, whichever it was, it wound O'Keefe up more (did anyone spot what Genge got penalised for btw? Seemed innocuous to me).

Say what you will about Robshaw or Hartley, but they both at least had the skill to engage in that kind of conversation without actively antagonising the ref (and neither of them gave away a penalty as captain by slapping someone who'd just dropped the ball and starting a "fight").

Puja

[Oakboy]

This, Itoje seems to know what he is doing and just (juuuuust) about stays the right side of what the ref will allow. Even then, when he is caught out, he isn't petulant about it; takes it on the chin and cracks on, in stark contrast to Farrell, Biggar or O'Mahoney

I don't think we will move nearer our performance ceiling till Itoje is captain. The 'Farrell is God bit' just has to go.

Absolutely agreed on both counts. Listening to Farrell attempt to negotiate with the ref before Genge's yellow card was painful - he just came off sounding like he was either incredibly thick or deliberately pretending not to understand and, whichever it was, it wound O'Keefe up more (did anyone spot what Genge got penalised for btw? Seemed innocuous to me).

Say what you will about Robshaw or Hartley, but they both at least had the skill to engage in that kind of conversation without actively antagonising the ref (and neither of them gave away a penalty as captain by slapping someone who'd just dropped the ball and starting a "fight").

Puja

The snag is that Jones is besotted with Farrell as a player, character and captain. I kmow I keep whingeing about Jones but his day is done. We desperately need a new approach if we are to develop anywhere close to our potential. Either Jones needs to wake up or he has to go.

[twitchy]

Genge was penalised for coming in a ruck at the side I think.

[Danno]

Genge was penalised for coming in a ruck at the side I think.

That or offside, but it didn't matter as the ref had decided - and warned - that the next pen would be carded.

[Sandydragon]

I don't think we will move nearer our performance ceiling till Itoje is captain. The 'Farrell is God bit' just has to go.

Absolutely agreed on both counts. Listening to Farrell attempt to negotiate with the ref before Genge's yellow card was painful - he just came off sounding like he was either incredibly thick or deliberately pretending not to understand and, whichever it was, it wound O'Keefe up more (did anyone spot what Genge got penalised for btw? Seemed innocuous to me).

Say what you will about Robshaw or Hartley, but they both at least had the skill to engage in that kind of conversation without actively antagonising the ref (and neither of them gave away a penalty as captain by slapping someone who'd just dropped the ball and starting a "fight").

Puja

The snag is that Jones is besotted with Farrell as a player, character and captain. I kmow I keep whingeing about Jones but his day is done. We desperately need a new approach if we are to develop anywhere close to our potential. Either Jones needs to wake up or he has to go.

There’s every chance that he has just win you the championship so I think you will be keeping him for a while yet.

[jngf]

Jones’ selection of backrow as unfathamable as ever. Take openside, I accept Wilson’s a reliable pick (some might say safety first) and has good speed endurance yet with both Ludlum and Earl available to start there and both a lot quicker and able to act as linkmen far more than Wilson, the former leapfrogs the pecking order (and that’s before we get onto the Curry situation). Ok Jones is winning triple crowns but so did England in Jack Rowell era and I feel in the forwards it’s safety first stodge rugby just like in the mid 90s that we’re now experiencing from a coach whose run out of sensible ideas.That notwithstanding, one newish selection that did seem to work very well was Slade at fullback who I thought looked very strong fielding at the back - he even borrowed Furbank’s disco moustache

[twitchy]

[Puja]

I don't see that as significantly better than Lovotti's red card at the RWC.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Don’t know if you saw this but Gilchrist landed in the worst way imaginable with his entire bodyweight on his neck.



I really am amazed he wasn’t hurt. Referee kept trying to brush it off as him being “rolled over” in the ruck which I thought was very strange. Initial tackler eventually got a yellow, but Willemse- the one who lifts a player and drives him head first in to the ground- got nothing.

We seem to be seeing more and more of these. In some cases I see why it is happening though. If we keep allowing players to limpet on to the ball/carrier while off their feet it leaves ruck clearers very few options but to lift the legs to shift them.

[Banquo]

This, Itoje seems to know what he is doing and just (juuuuust) about stays the right side of what the ref will allow. Even then, when he is caught out, he isn't petulant about it; takes it on the chin and cracks on, in stark contrast to Farrell, Biggar or O'Mahoney

I don't think we will move nearer our performance ceiling till Itoje is captain. The 'Farrell is God bit' just has to go.

Absolutely agreed on both counts. Listening to Farrell attempt to negotiate with the ref before Genge's yellow card was painful - he just came off sounding like he was either incredibly thick or deliberately pretending not to understand and, whichever it was, it wound O'Keefe up more (did anyone spot what Genge got penalised for btw? Seemed innocuous to me).

Say what you will about Robshaw or Hartley, but they both at least had the skill to engage in that kind of conversation without actively antagonising the ref (and neither of them gave away a penalty as captain by slapping someone who'd just dropped the ball and starting a "fight").

Puja

Genge was about a toenail offside.

[Puja]

Don’t know if you saw this but Gilchrist landed in the worst way imaginable with his entire bodyweight on his neck.



I really am amazed he wasn’t hurt. Referee kept trying to brush it off as him being “rolled over” in the ruck which I thought was very strange. Initial tackler eventually got a yellow, but Willemse- the one who lifts a player and drives him head first in to the ground- got nothing.

We seem to be seeing more and more of these. In some cases I see why it is happening though. If we keep allowing players to limpet on to the ball/carrier while off their feet it leaves ruck clearers very few options but to lift the legs to shift them.

Jesus f*ck - no, I hadn't seen that. Maybe the photo is overly damning, but I'm astounded that wasn't a red.

Puja