Sandydragon wrote:
Army on the cliffs of Dover, RAF paining the sky red, white and blue above London and the Royal Navy sinking immigrant boats in the channel.
Oh, and they probably wanted the Empire back, or at least India.
Something like that.
Is this the programme for Jubilee Day celebrations? Please tell me we’re taking back a nice part of the Empire for us to holiday in. Goa, perhaps?
I think Starmer's speeches have really ramped up in quality. But it doesn't matter, the right wing press will simply pick up on the Vladimir Corbyn remark and run with it, and many people - like my father and many like him - will become even further entrenched in anti-labour.
Only one person in parliament has the balls to stand up and talk about Fascism, though. Mhiari Black take a bow, your speeches are often very good value and echo my own thoughts.
We need to change the conversation around fascism.
cashead wrote:On the other hand, I find it hard to take a member of a party that doesn't immediately eject its members for honouring the death of a bigoted fuckstain in parliament seriously on any matters.
Sadly, you're going to have to be more specific than that...
So there will be a confidence vote in Boris later today. Whilst it feels like its taken an age to get here, it also feels a bit premature. I'm not convinced that the 190 or so votes will be there to remove him. Fingers crossed.
As an aside, if you were Kier Starmer would you prefer the remained or got the elbow? I suppose that would depend on who replaced him - Truss would be a nightmare, but a more moderate leader would probably appeal to a wider base than just the brexiteer community.
Sandydragon wrote:So there will be a confidence vote in Boris later today. Whilst it feels like its taken an age to get here, it also feels a bit premature. I'm not convinced that the 190 or so votes will be there to remove him. Fingers crossed.
As an aside, if you were Kier Starmer would you prefer the remained or got the elbow? I suppose that would depend on who replaced him - Truss would be a nightmare, but a more moderate leader would probably appeal to a wider base than just the brexiteer community.
On the one hand, Boris Johnson may be the least competent Prime Minister in living memory. He has no morals, no principles, lies with such ease and frequency that it's hard to tell if he's actively and maliciously deceiving or just saying what seems easiest and most populist to him at the time to keep people liking him, regardless of whether it has any basis in fact. He's a man with such a frightening combination of low wisdom and high ego that, as foreign minister, he couldn't be stopped from showing off that he'd memorised "The Bells of Mandalay" (a Kipling poem glorying the British Empire's conquering of then Burma, now Myan Mar, by the motif of a British soldier reminiscing on the Burmese girl he'd fucked and how she still wanted him), while on a state visit to one of the most sacred temples in Myan Mar, despite the ambassador literally standing next to him saying, "Not a good idea, Boris." He *kept* *going* despite someone telling him not to, because he wanted to show off a thing he knew! He has so many flaws that I can't even fit them into one post.
Surely, by that metric, the country is better with him gone as quickly as possible.
On the other hand, the Conservative party as a whole is a blight on the UK right now - more interested in stoking culture wars to hang onto power than abiding by any principles that they might lay claim to, and the sheer possibility of Liz Truss or Priti Patel taking over makes my blood run cold. Is it better to hope that Boris wins, continues to blunder, and the country votes the whole lot of them out at the next election?
Two and a half years is a long time though, both in terms of the damage that Boris could do (especially in throwing red meat policies at his base to try and win back favour), and in terms of Boris's incredible ability to avoid consequences and win public favour despite his dizzying list of inadequacies. He wins this and he could end up not only fucking the country for another 2.5 years, but 7.5 years and longer.
I think, from my thoughts in typing this out, it's better to hope to have him go now. Better the bird in the hand and the hope that someone slightly better will take control (as the best of a bad bunch, I'd take Sajid Javid, although (almost) anyone'd be better than Truss).
Johnson isnt a normal political and I wouldn't bet against him doing well at the next election; maybe not as well as last time but well enough to keep a majority.
Truss, Patel and Mogg would be a nightmare. I'm not keen on Mordant either.
Id go for Tom Tugendhat, Nadhim Zahawi or Wallace. Hunt has a lot of baggage, and whilst I respect Gove as a political who is capable of managing detail, he would be electoral poison.
Following the Brexit problems, I'd prefer someone who prefers a softer version of Brexit to try and rebuild our relationship with the EU and perhaps restore some faith in our political system.
The other scenario is that Boris survives but is so weakened that he can't get anything through parliament and his government limps on for a while, but he calls an early election. Has the 5 year parliament legislation been repealed yet?
Sandydragon wrote:The other scenario is that Boris survives but is so weakened that he can't get anything through parliament and his government limps on for a while, but he calls an early election. Has the 5 year parliament legislation been repealed yet?
It has been repealed, but the chances of Johnson calling an early election where he's not likely to win rank somewhere between none and square root of fuck all. Same as any talk that he might resign. He wants to be in charge - nothing else - and if he's on his way out, he'll ride it until the very last possible day available to him.
You're probably right, he would just hang in there and hope for better news. SO a crippled government and a joke PM until 2024 (ish). Seriously need him to lose tonight's vote, but I just feel the odds are against it.
Puja wrote:Two and a half years is a long time though, both in terms of the damage that Boris could do (especially in throwing red meat policies at his base to try and win back favour), and in terms of Boris's incredible ability to avoid consequences and win public favour despite his dizzying list of inadequacies. He wins this and he could end up not only fucking the country for another 2.5 years, but 7.5 years and longer.
Zhivago wrote:The only sensible replacement would be Ben Wallace. The other candidates are all horror shows.
Why Ben Wallace and who are the other candidates?
Wallce has been a competent Defence Secretary, which is a rarity in that role.
Zahawi did well as vaccines minister and seems to be doing OK at education.
Tugendhat maybe but is perhaps a bit inexperienced at the top level.
I'd even take Hunt over Boris and the other Brexiteers.
Jeremy Hunt has come out saying he will vote against Johnson and Nadine Dorries has lost the plot, attacking him on twitter, including this belter:
I'm wondering if she realises that's still her own party that she's attacking for having wanting and inadequate preparation for the pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands? A fun tweet for the COVID inquiry there.
Plus she's out doing interviews saying that the important thing here is that millionaire donors don't want Johnson removed and that's really what MPs who are worried about electoral consequences should be thinking about.
I'd actively prefer to not have her helping, if I were Boris.
Also, this is a hell of a watch. Everything that's wrong with this country, from the born-to-rule class who are groomed for egomania and sociopathy, to the fact that we keep voting for the fuckers.
Puja wrote:Also, this is a hell of a watch. Everything that's wrong with this country, from the born-to-rule class who are groomed for egomania and sociopathy, to the fact that we keep voting for the fuckers.
Puja
The Tories are only interested in whether or not he'll get them votes. That stuff's all irrelevant. As it says, they already knew all that.
Zhivago wrote:The only sensible replacement would be Ben Wallace. The other candidates are all horror shows.
Why Ben Wallace and who are the other candidates?
Wallce has been a competent Defence Secretary, which is a rarity in that role.
Zahawi did well as vaccines minister and seems to be doing OK at education.
Tugendhat maybe but is perhaps a bit inexperienced at the top level.
I'd even take Hunt over Boris and the other Brexiteers.
I’d like to see more of a back catalogue than being a competent Defence Secretary which, in this instance, is pretty much giving as much help to a country under attack as possible - though, you will have better intel than me on his day to day qualities. He hasn’t really differed to Johnson over Ukraine, both prior to and during the war, so using that as a reason to replace Johnson doesn’t have much logic. Tbh, all he’s done is the morally correct thing but it has looked way more than that when set in context against the pathetic responses of the other large nations in Europe. As Sunak could tell him, it’s easy to look great when you’re giving away a shed load of help but you can soon fall on your arse when faced with more difficult decisions. Wallace also has a couple of major historical gaffes that might do for him, whether that be with fellow Conservative MPs, the party members or the electorate.
Zahawi seems to be competent but also has a small back catalogue and has had the temerity to make a lot of money, a decent proportion of which was whilst a MP.
Tugendhat would be my first choice, at present, but my main point of the question is that the winner isn’t always from the pool of people you expect and it’s a particularly large pool for this one…. whenever it happens.
Nobody put any safe money on Cameron and who would’ve thought Leadsom would be favourite until deciding to show off about having children.
Puja wrote:Jeremy Hunt has come out saying he will vote against Johnson and Nadine Dorries has lost the plot, attacking him on twitter, including this belter:
I'm wondering if she realises that's still her own party that she's attacking for having wanting and inadequate preparation for the pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands? A fun tweet for the COVID inquiry there.
Plus she's out doing interviews saying that the important thing here is that millionaire donors don't want Johnson removed and that's really what MPs who are worried about electoral consequences should be thinking about.
I'd actively prefer to not have her helping, if I were Boris.
Puja
GoNad has never had a plot, book or even library. Separately though Hunt has made me a little angry with his Field Marshall HIndsight chairmanship of the Health and Social Care Committee and general comments about the pandemic. Disingenuous doesn't even come close- he was the AO (using NHS speak) during the prep time.
