RugbyRebels

That only leaves concerns around the trade deficit as is are for imbeciles

Digby wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Stom wrote:
Well sure, but voting "against Brexit" is only likely to make him worse off with the traditional voters, not improve his standing that much with the middle classes.

The only way to beat populism is remove the crutch on which they stand. If Starmer can help make Boris the most unpopular leader in history, his job will be that much easier. So don't do anything stupid and let the buffoon do your work.

IMO the traditional Labour voter isn't that interested in this kind of signalling, so I doubt they'd be particularly bothered. But the voters he could lose to the Lib Dems are more sensitive to this kind of thing.

The traditional labour voter who went with the slogans of let's spend that money on the NHS instead, and get Brexit done isn't interested in nonsensical signalling? 'tis an interesting take

Yes, but those slogans were projected into the faces of everyone by well funded referendum and general election campaigns. Labour's vote is much lower profile, hence IMO not that likely to become an issue for the average politically uninterested voter.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: IMO the traditional Labour voter isn't that interested in this kind of signalling, so I doubt they'd be particularly bothered. But the voters he could lose to the Lib Dems are more sensitive to this kind of thing.

The traditional labour voter who went with the slogans of let's spend that money on the NHS instead, and get Brexit done isn't interested in nonsensical signalling? 'tis an interesting take

Yes, but those slogans were projected into the faces of everyone by well funded referendum and general election campaigns. Labour's vote is much lower profile, hence IMO not that likely to become an issue for the average politically uninterested voter.

I don't think the charge of being an enemy of the people is going away anytime soon, and trying to defend such charge can't work with those who don't follow politics because at best they'll hear a slogan

if anything you've more of a chance with the Lib Dei voters because they're more likely to follow politics and be willing to listen to a more nuanced point. Which isn't to say all Lib Dei voters are reasonable, some of them are clearly stark raving bonkers

Anyone who is a die hard remainer will probably hate Starrmer for not opposing the deal. But even amongst many who voted remain, there is a sense of weariness with the Brexit saga and also a realisation that a deal like we have is better than no deal. I've never voted Labour, but I don't hold Starmer's position in that vote against him because I feel he voted in the national interest.

There will be plenty of ammunition for Labour to throw at the next election, particularly if the economy fails to recover quick enough and the promises to 'level up' (does anyone actually know what the fuck that actually means?) aren't fulfilled. Given that covid has caused a lot of harm to the economy, which Brexit won't help to fix, the money to spend on projects to tempt Labour voters up north is going to be limited.

What will be interesting is how quickly the Conservatives look to diverge away from EU standards. The deal means that if we do start to diverge then trade barriers can be erected. I wonder how much pressure there will be on Johnson to start that divergence from the right of his party who view anything produced by the EU as positively Satanic in nature? I suspect the boat won't be rocked too soon as there are bigger fish to fry in terms of economic recovery but I don't think it will be too long before the rabid ERG types are making more noise.

Huge parts of the deal remain unknown, even before we get to services. Starmer might simply be keeping his powder dry, heaven knows the current executive could helpfully be kicked into a different line of thinking, or they need to plan for having much less money

Apparently we are unable to inspect goods between the mainland UK and Northern Ireland as the borders/ customs staff are being threatened by loyalist paramilitaries. Now it looks like both sides are in a rhetoric war to make the most out of this.

Just when we were hoping hat we had heard the last of this.

I don't imagine anyone seriously thought we'd heard the last of this. Partly, and ignoring there were always going to be teething problems, we've got a crap deal that any number of people were obviously going to have issues with, and so much of the deal was never actually done, they just said they'd done it no matter the reality. Perhaps they said they'd done it so they could get on with doing the deal with much less public scrutiny.

NI remains a problem whatever though, other than remaining in the single market and customs union I really don't see how we can account for NI, unless there's an acceptance it's simply not part of the UK anymore, and even that isn't exactly without issue. I'm amused at Arlene Foster having been so pro Brexit isn't enjoying herself (side query as to whether a DUP member is allowed to experience enjoyment?), but my being amused isn't the same as it being helpful

Digby wrote:I don't imagine anyone seriously thought we'd heard the last of this. Partly, and ignoring there were always going to be teething problems, we've got a crap deal that any number of people were obviously going to have issues with, and so much of the deal was never actually done, they just said they'd done it no matter the reality. Perhaps they said they'd done it so they could get on with doing the deal with much less public scrutiny.

NI remains a problem whatever though, other than remaining in the single market and customs union I really don't see how we can account for NI, unless there's an acceptance it's simply not part of the UK anymore, and even that isn't exactly without issue. I'm amused at Arlene Foster having been so pro Brexit isn't enjoying herself (side query as to whether a DUP member is allowed to experience enjoyment?), but my being amused isn't the same as it being helpful

No the emotion scale ranges from anger to hounds of hell fury. Happiness doesn't really feature.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:I don't imagine anyone seriously thought we'd heard the last of this. Partly, and ignoring there were always going to be teething problems, we've got a crap deal that any number of people were obviously going to have issues with, and so much of the deal was never actually done, they just said they'd done it no matter the reality. Perhaps they said they'd done it so they could get on with doing the deal with much less public scrutiny.

NI remains a problem whatever though, other than remaining in the single market and customs union I really don't see how we can account for NI, unless there's an acceptance it's simply not part of the UK anymore, and even that isn't exactly without issue. I'm amused at Arlene Foster having been so pro Brexit isn't enjoying herself (side query as to whether a DUP member is allowed to experience enjoyment?), but my being amused isn't the same as it being helpful

No the emotion scale ranges from anger to hounds of hell fury. Happiness doesn't really feature.

I feared as much, but good to know

Oh dear, what a pity

What a twat. Just another grifting wanker trying to make a buck off whining grievance to ignorant troglodytes in stupid fucking hats.


Pittsburgh airport marriot...where racists go to die. What was the problem? Was Florida over it's fuckwit limit for May?

Superb. What I like most about this is the fact that there was a campaign to book out the event with no-shows, but it clearly didn't get fully viral if only 2,981 people signed up and so there still would have been tickets available for those interested. And he still only got 14 people.

Puja

Tim Martin - he of "we have too many EU migrants, therefore we must leave the EU" has decided that we don't have enough EU migrants. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/ ... age-272908

Yet another example of "this is not the Brexit I voted for" - and yet another example of "this is exactly the Brexit I voted against"

Tim Martin - he of "we have too many EU migrants, therefore we must leave the EU" has decided that we don't have enough EU migrants. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/ ... age-272908


Yet another example of "this is not the Brexit I voted for" - and yet another example of "this is exactly the Brexit I voted against"

So that's hospitality added to farming, fishing, tourism, banking and manufacturing as having been thrown under the (bendy) bus (with lies no the side) for Brexit - and we're still waiting on the first glimmer of a good thing to come from it all.


ETA: Oh yes, and the environment: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ty-in-2020

Turns out that when you tell all your workers that you won't support them at all in a pandemic and that they should go get jobs in Tesco if they're poor, they'll take you up on it.

On the bright side, this has highlighted one of the few benefits of Brexit, although probably not one that Tim Martin would like. With nations of varying wealth coming together in a common market for workers, it meant employers like Martin could pay minimum wage, treat employees like shit, and yet never run out of workers because of migrants from poorer countries like Bulgaria and Romania. Now they've got to actually make their jobs either worth doing or paid better (cf. fruit pickers, care home workers).

Puja

Puja wrote:Turns out that when you tell all your workers that you won't support them at all in a pandemic and that they should go get jobs in Tesco if they're poor, they'll take you up on it.

On the bright side, this has highlighted one of the few benefits of Brexit, although probably not one that Tim Martin would like. With nations of varying wealth coming together in a common market for workers, it meant employers like Martin could pay minimum wage, treat employees like shit, and yet never run out of workers because of migrants from poorer countries like Bulgaria and Romania. Now they've got to actually make their jobs either worth doing or paid better (cf. fruit pickers, care home workers).

Puja

Potentially.
With this government though, it's more likely that they'll make it so that claiming job seekers / universal credit means you have to work so many hours a week free of charge, in a wetherspoons, carehome or farm.

Puja wrote:Turns out that when you tell all your workers that you won't support them at all in a pandemic and that they should go get jobs in Tesco if they're poor, they'll take you up on it.

On the bright side, this has highlighted one of the few benefits of Brexit, although probably not one that Tim Martin would like. With nations of varying wealth coming together in a common market for workers, it meant employers like Martin could pay minimum wage, treat employees like shit, and yet never run out of workers because of migrants from poorer countries like Bulgaria and Romania. Now they've got to actually make their jobs either worth doing or paid better (cf. fruit pickers, care home workers).

Puja

Labour were traditionally against the EEC

In tribute to a man who went on the record saying he knew nothing about trade deals and that that's enough for Liz Truss

The over 65’s are once again f**king over the youth. This time by denying them a far-left vs far-right runoff in the French President elections and forcing Macron upon them.

Got to experience literally the only good thing to come out of Brexit. Cheap booze at the airports again.

So damn sad.

Human rights, animal welfare, employment rights, environmental protections are all under threat from the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, which is just making its way through Parliament.

This bill will revoke ANY EU derived law at the end of 2023. Anything worth retaining will need to be written anew into UK law.

It will be quite an exercise to determine exactly what its effects are, let alone relegislate for what should be kept (or, more likely kept in a weaker form). God knows how the civil servants will find time to do this . . . but then that's probably the idea.

It allows the Tories to scrap whole swathes of our protections without explicitly debating or even mentioning them. Essentially the kind of thing which scared me most about Brexit in the first place. Renovation by TNT.

But don't worry because Rees-Mogg says: 'In my view the provisions of the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill are compatible with the Convention rights'. So that's alright then.


This focuses on the environmental aspects but the bill will hit human rights, employment rights etc
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ee-for-all

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:09 am Human rights, animal welfare, employment rights, environmental protections are all under threat from the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, which is just making its way through Parliament.

This bill will revoke ANY EU derived law at the end of 2023. Anything worth retaining will need to be written anew into UK law.

It will be quite an exercise to determine exactly what its effects are, let alone relegislate for what should be kept (or, more likely kept in a weaker form). God knows how the civil servants will find time to do this . . . but then that's probably the idea.

It allows the Tories to scrap whole swathes of our protections without explicitly debating or even mentioning them. Essentially the kind of thing which scared me most about Brexit in the first place. Renovation by TNT.

But don't worry because Rees-Mogg says: 'In my view the provisions of the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill are compatible with the Convention rights'. So that's alright then.


This focuses on the environmental aspects but the bill will hit human rights, employment rights etc
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ee-for-all

More detail on this - up to 2400 laws written in the last 50 years will disappear in less than 15 months:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-rhetoric

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ght-along/
Archived version here: https://archive.ph/nLgi4

Telegraph wrote:Project Fear was right all along
Six years of policy confusion and ineptitude has brought a calamitous loss of standing
...
Downbeat predictions by the Treasury and others on the economic consequences of leaving the EU, contemptuously dismissed at the time by Brexit campaigners as "Project Fear", have been on a long fuse, but they have turned out to be overwhelmingly correct, and if anything have underestimated both the calamitous loss of international standing and the scale of the damage that six years of policy confusion and ineptitude has imposed on the country.
...
ARTICLE CONTINUES

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:07 am https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ght-along/
Archived version here: https://archive.ph/nLgi4

Telegraph wrote:Project Fear was right all along
Six years of policy confusion and ineptitude has brought a calamitous loss of standing
...
Downbeat predictions by the Treasury and others on the economic consequences of leaving the EU, contemptuously dismissed at the time by Brexit campaigners as "Project Fear", have been on a long fuse, but they have turned out to be overwhelmingly correct, and if anything have underestimated both the calamitous loss of international standing and the scale of the damage that six years of policy confusion and ineptitude has imposed on the country.
...
ARTICLE CONTINUES

Not exactly a mea culpa, but remarkable to see something like this in the pages of the Torygraph at all.

Digby wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:36 pm That only leaves concerns around the trade deficit as is are for imbeciles

from the Guardian
"Trade from the UK to the EU is down 16% on the levels anticipated had Brexit not happened, a new report has found.

Meanwhile trade from the EU to the UK has dropped even further, by 20%, relative to a scenario in which Brexit had not occurred, according to research published on Wednesday by the Economic and Social Research Institute."

You'd think that if imports drop more than exports then that'd help our balance of trade. But based on the figures it doesn't look to be the case. 2022 looking very shit so far.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kin ... e-of-trade