RugbyRebels

South Africa faces another African team for just the third time (second at the tournament), probably Namibia again, but hopefully Kenya! I'd like to see the Boks play an annual test against the African Cup winner. What an incentive that would be for the other nations on the continent! They used to field a junior side in the ARC, of course, but the organizers apparently wanted to make it a real senior competition.

So is it good to meet in a RWC?

Here are teams ranked by how many times they have been beaten in a RWC by the eventual Champion:

7: France
5: Argentina
4: Australia, Samoa, Wales
3: Canada, England, South Africa, Tonga
2: Fiji, Georgia, Ireland, NZ, Romania, USA
1: Italy, Japan, Namibia, Uruguay

rowan wrote:South Africa faces another African team for just the third time (second at the tournament), probably Namibia again, but hopefully Kenya! I'd like to see the Boks play an annual test against the African Cup winner. What an incentive that would be for the other nations on the continent! They used to field a junior side in the ARC, of course, but the organizers apparently wanted to make it a real senior competition.

The SARU couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.

Well, to be fair, the African nations haven't requested such a fixture, so far as I know. But what a target to aim for - a test against one of the game's super powers! Again, it could be an early season thing, like my ideas for annual tests between NZ & Australia and their Pacific counterparts at the start of the international season; a chance to blow out the cobwebs and experiment with a couple of new players and combinations or so. Everyone's a winner & in response to the inevitable predictions of gross mismatches and humiliations, my signiature says the rest. In fact, this is the only way they can really get better.

Sunday 14th May will mark one calendar year since the Blues last lost to an international opponent, when they were beaten 43-5 by the Lions. Since then they have defeated nine international teams on the bounce with an average score of 35-20. Over the same time period they lost all of their seven NZ derbies by an average score of 29-22

Yes, only the Canes have a longer unbeaten streak against foreign opposition - by one week. They went down to the Sharks on May 7 last year. The Lions beat both South Island franchises in last year's play-offs in July, while the Chiefs are of course the only Kiwi franchise to have lost to a foreign team this year - going down to the Stormers last month.

Has there been a home loss for a Kiwi team against foreign opposition since Otago's one-point defeat to the Sharks in April last year?

No

More of a data vis than statistics, but someone on Reddit has produced a 'scorogami' that visualises the results of every SR match ever played (n = 2014). Horizontal axis is the winning score and vertical the losing score.



EDIT: You can open the image in a new tab for the full size.

Here's some interesting stattage.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-bl ... n-his-back

Highlights:
Since 2004, there have been fewer All Black tight heads than any other position.

In 171 tests, the All Blacks have used 164 different starting XVs. Of the 5 repeats, 2 have been in RWC Semis and finals.

Just to keep the Super Rugby embers smouldering while the Lions piss all over our domestic season…

Most Super Rugby Championships:
Crusaders: 7 (most recently 2008)
Blues: 3 (2003)
Bulls: 3 (2010)
Brumbies: 2 (2004)
Chiefs: 2 (2013)
Reds: 1 (2011)
Waratahs: 1 (2014)
Highlanders: 1 (2015)
Hurricanes: 1 (2016)
Northern Traansvaal/Northern Bulls,* Natal Sharks/Sharks, Transvaal/Gauteng Lions/Golden Lions/Cats/Lions, Western Province/Stormers, Free State/Cheetahs, Force, Rebels, Kings, Jaguares, Sunwolves: 0

NZ: 14 wins by 5 franchises out of 5
Aust: 4 by 3 from 5
SA: 1 by 1 from, um, 6 to 14 (or even 15 if the Spears are counted) depending on how you count
Jap/Arg: 0 by 0 from 1 each

*Now included in the Bulls franchise, which has 3 wins

Lizard wrote:I met a few old Rhodesian cricketers when I was over there but no-one associated with rugby as far as I knew.

I've also sent the ZRU a DM on Twitter, and LinkedIn invite to Jonty Winch. I'm keen to get a definitive answer on this.

I've managed to find former Zimbabwe RU president John Falkenberg on Facebook, and he assures me Rhodesia's results against international opposition are indeed regarded as 'test matches' by the ZRU and part of the nation's rugby history. This includes the 1949 victory over the All Blacks.

Good work. Have you got a link or a screen shot or something?

Facebook - Zimbabwe Rugby Forum. It should come up. John Falkenberg actually operates it himself and it's pretty lively too.

Defending champions Wellington Hurricanes set a new Super Rugby try scoring record in overcoming Western Force 34-12 in Perth. The Hurricanes posted six tries to two to break the record for most tries in a Super Rugby season, with 83 overtaking South Africa's Golden Lions' 81 from last season. Wellington moved 10 points behind the Canterbury Crusaders in the New Zealand conference with two games left in the regular season, one of them against the Crusaders at home. The Hurricanes' victory also further extended New Zealand's winning record over Australian opposition this season to 23-0.

rowan wrote:Facebook - Zimbabwe Rugby Forum. It should come up. John Falkenberg actually operates it himself and it's pretty lively too.

I've joined that group, and seen an article about 1949 that John has copypasted from elsewhere but I don't see anything about retrospective caps. Can you link it?

Link what? His comment that the games have been retroactively awarded test status? Just ask him yourself. He seems to be on there regularly enough, sharing videos and chatting with everyone. I did a google search on the guy and he was definitely president of the ZRU until last year. So I presume he knows what he's talking about, and he was adamant those games are now regarded as test matches in Zimbabwe. But that's all I've got to go on.

Interestingly Rugby Data lists these games: http://www.rugbydata.com/newzealand/zimbabwe/

rowan wrote:Link what? His comment that the games have been retroactively awarded test status? Just ask him yourself. He seems to be on there regularly enough, sharing videos and chatting with everyone. I did a google search on the guy and he was definitely president of the ZRU until last year. So I presume he knows what he's talking about, and he was adamant those games are now regarded as test matches in Zimbabwe. But that's all I've got to go on.

I meant a link to his replies, or did you DM him?

Rugbydata lists all manner of nonsense, like the Barbarians v All Blacks, which no one has ever regarded as a test.

Yes, most of our discussion was a private chat. Amazing thing, Facebook. I had a long chat with the coach and manager of the defending club champions here the other day and he gave me the full story about Turkey's absence from ENC (see Global Results thread). I only have Mr Falkenberg's word on this, and he has no reason to lie, but I also recall reading about it some time ago after the decision to recognize those games as full internationals in Zimbabwe was made.

The All Blacks have lost only 7 tests ever to opposition that failed to score a try.

The most recent was in 2011 (18-5) when an understrength side was sent to South Africa before the RWC. Richard Kahui scored an unconverted try, Morne Steyn kicked 5 penalties and a drop goal.

The only other instance in the professional era was in 2003 (15-13) when Sir Clive’s Johnny Wilkinson hit 4 penalties and a DG to outdo a Howlett try, converted by Spencer who also got 2 penalties.

The most famous example was the final of RWC1995 (15-12) when Joel Stransky and Andrew Mehrtens both scored 3 penalties but Stransky made his 2nd DG after Mehrtens’ attempted second missed.

In 1993 (15-9), 3 Jeff Wilson penalties at Twickenham were not enough to overcome Jon Callard’s* 4 penalties let alone Rob Andrew’s DG.

In 1979 (12-6), Australia won the Bledisloe Cup in a one-off test in which Bev Wilson’s* penalty and Murray Taylor’s DG were not enough to overcome 3 penalties by Paul McLean and a Monrose DG.

The Springboks failed to cross the whitewash in two of the tests against the disastrous 1949 All Blacks tourists, weakened by the omission of non-white players. In the first test (15-11), Henderson’s converted 3-point try, and Scott’s penalty and DG were outdone by 5 penalties, all kicked by prop Okey Geffin.** In the 3rd test (9-3), Geffin repeated the feat with 3 penalties while NZ’s sole score was a Maurice Goddard try.


*No, I haven’t heard of him either.
**Fun fact – Okey Geffin, a Jewish son of a Russian immigrant to SA, honed his goal-kicking prowess while a POW in Germany and Italy during WWII.

How about tests NZ has won wihout scoring a try against opponents who did cross the line? I can recall Kieran Crowley kicking six penalties in an 18-13 win over England in 1985, though the tourists scored two tries. I went to the second test in Wellington where the All Blacks romped to a then record 42-15 win. Of course, all the talk then was about how the All Blacks had beaten Lions 18-17 in 1959 with Don Clarke's 6 penalties overcoming 4 tries by the visitors.

I think the only other instance of a tryless NZ beating a try-scoring side was the home fixture v SA in the inaugural Tri-Nations - 5 Mehrtens penalties beating a Joubert try and 2 Stransky penalties.

Really? I thought there would have been more in the early days, but since tries were only worth 3 points and conversions were often missed, it would be a hell of a job trying to find them!

I've checked (it's actually not hard). I'm right.

A team of All Blacks captains:

IJ Clarke, SBT Fitzpatrick, WJ Whineray, GW Whetton, RD Thorne, RH McCaw, GNK Mourie, KJ Read, DE Kirk, JL Griffths, JF Umaga, FR Allen, JB Smith, SS Wilson, JM Muliaina.