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Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:54 pm
by Digby
More a significant number of people commenting don't know much in general
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:57 pm
by FKAS
Digby wrote:How do you just draft in extra Prem players?
Some of those who were called up to the EPS from outside the normal group were, not surprisingly, not doing well enough in fitness tests, the likes of Odogwu, and that could easily hold for others outside the normal EPS given it's time in the England camp seeing the raised levels which normally acts as a driver (or acceptance this is too high a level)
Also how do you just call up Prem players during a pandemic when you've established rules to limit movement in/out and within the squad
And then how do you just call up players when you've specifically agreed with the clubs to limit the size of the EPS for the event?
Simply citing form Prem players as being able to deliver seems at best mildly optimistic in the extreme
Select form players as opposed to regular internationals who aren't playing and match sharp. You've only got 28 he could have gone a different way.
Whether they were able to deliver obviously we don't know but the squad selected didn't deliver either.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:32 pm
by Mr Mwenda
I'd also say that Chris Jones seems to conflate what EJ says (e.g. around what international rugby requires) with what EJ is trying to do with the team.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:19 pm
by Digby
FKAS wrote:Digby wrote:How do you just draft in extra Prem players?
Some of those who were called up to the EPS from outside the normal group were, not surprisingly, not doing well enough in fitness tests, the likes of Odogwu, and that could easily hold for others outside the normal EPS given it's time in the England camp seeing the raised levels which normally acts as a driver (or acceptance this is too high a level)
Also how do you just call up Prem players during a pandemic when you've established rules to limit movement in/out and within the squad
And then how do you just call up players when you've specifically agreed with the clubs to limit the size of the EPS for the event?
Simply citing form Prem players as being able to deliver seems at best mildly optimistic in the extreme
Select form players as opposed to regular internationals who aren't playing and match sharp. You've only got 28 he could have gone a different way.
Whether they were able to deliver obviously we don't know but the squad selected didn't deliver either.
Selecting players who aren't good enough just seems an odd solution. And yes they could have had more than 28, but that was the agreement, do you really want England to be able to do whatever they want? I'm not even a fan of any of the prem clubs and I don't think they should be allowed free rein
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:06 pm
by Raggs
Sorry, I got a few paragraphs in, and combined with the utter uselessness of BBC rugby reporting in general, gave up. Is he really wondering why no premiership team wasn't willing to give up one of their main coaching staff for 2 months!
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:31 am
by Mr Mwenda
Is it the same flanker/lock Chris Jones who played for England a few times in the Robinson[?] era? Was really light for his position but very quick, if memory serves.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:54 am
by Danno
Yeah that's him.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:14 am
by ad_tigger
Danno wrote:Yeah that's him.
Pretty sure it's a different bloke
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:02 pm
by jngf
ad_tigger wrote:Danno wrote:Yeah that's him.
Pretty sure it's a different bloke
James Forrester
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:01 am
by Gloskarlos
According to Twitter, Eddie is offering some 'gold' coaching to Beauden Barrett on the side (Telegraph article) Followed up by a load of stuff in the Mail from Woodward asking if anyone has the minerals to keep Jones under control.
Would be interested to see if this is a loophole in his contract...
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:16 am
by Puja
Gloskarlos wrote:According to Twitter, Eddie is offering some 'gold' coaching to Beauden Barrett on the side (Telegraph article) Followed up by a load of stuff in the Mail from Woodward asking if anyone has the minerals to keep Jones under control.
Would be interested to see if this is a loophole in his contract...
Notably there doesn't appear to have been any followup to him linking up with San Diego Legion that was much publicised last year. He's either backed out of it or he's keeping it quiet (and not accomplishing much - Legion are floundering rn!). I had assumed that it was a result of the post 6N inquiry.
Puja
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:26 am
by FKAS
Puja wrote:Gloskarlos wrote:According to Twitter, Eddie is offering some 'gold' coaching to Beauden Barrett on the side (Telegraph article) Followed up by a load of stuff in the Mail from Woodward asking if anyone has the minerals to keep Jones under control.
Would be interested to see if this is a loophole in his contract...
Notably there doesn't appear to have been any followup to him linking up with San Diego Legion that was much publicised last year. He's either backed out of it or he's keeping it quiet (and not accomplishing much - Legion are floundering rn!). I had assumed that it was a result of the post 6N inquiry.
Puja
He might have tried to do some online mentoring with their two rookie head coaches. He was only supposed to be a coaching consultant.
England knew he had the same deal with Barrett's team in Japan. Interesting to hear Barrett so clearly bigging up the impact of another nation's head coach but there you go. Maybe Eddie does know what he's talking about...
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:40 am
by Gloskarlos
Would Ford or Farrell say the same I wonder.....
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:35 pm
by Oakboy
Gloskarlos wrote:According to Twitter, Eddie is offering some 'gold' coaching to Beauden Barrett on the side (Telegraph article) Followed up by a load of stuff in the Mail from Woodward asking if anyone has the minerals to keep Jones under control.
Would be interested to see if this is a loophole in his contract...
It certainly adds whiteness to the wash. Just what would Jones have to do to get criticism from the RFU? Cleary in the DT says he has the RFU by the short and curlies. Just about sums it up.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:38 pm
by Oakboy
Gloskarlos wrote:Would Ford or Farrell say the same I wonder.....
They'd say whatever was necessary to maintain the status quo, I suspect.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:22 pm
by Timbo
So presumably all the journo’s getting their knickers in a twist over Eddie’s extra-curricular coaching are as equally outraged about the home nations staff going off to coach the Lions?
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:38 pm
by Puja
FKAS wrote:Puja wrote:Gloskarlos wrote:According to Twitter, Eddie is offering some 'gold' coaching to Beauden Barrett on the side (Telegraph article) Followed up by a load of stuff in the Mail from Woodward asking if anyone has the minerals to keep Jones under control.
Would be interested to see if this is a loophole in his contract...
Notably there doesn't appear to have been any followup to him linking up with San Diego Legion that was much publicised last year. He's either backed out of it or he's keeping it quiet (and not accomplishing much - Legion are floundering rn!). I had assumed that it was a result of the post 6N inquiry.
Puja
He might have tried to do some online mentoring with their two rookie head coaches. He was only supposed to be a coaching consultant.
England knew he had the same deal with Barrett's team in Japan. Interesting to hear Barrett so clearly bigging up the impact of another nation's head coach but there you go. Maybe Eddie does know what he's talking about...
And Eddie coaching Barrett surely also means that he's bringing vital info on Barrett back to the England camp. I don't see this as being the big disaster that the Telegraph do.
Puja
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:28 pm
by 16th man
Puja wrote:FKAS wrote:Puja wrote:
Notably there doesn't appear to have been any followup to him linking up with San Diego Legion that was much publicised last year. He's either backed out of it or he's keeping it quiet (and not accomplishing much - Legion are floundering rn!). I had assumed that it was a result of the post 6N inquiry.
Puja
He might have tried to do some online mentoring with their two rookie head coaches. He was only supposed to be a coaching consultant.
England knew he had the same deal with Barrett's team in Japan. Interesting to hear Barrett so clearly bigging up the impact of another nation's head coach but there you go. Maybe Eddie does know what he's talking about...
And Eddie coaching Barrett surely also means that he's bringing vital info on Barrett back to the England camp. I don't see this as being the big disaster that the Telegraph do.
Puja
He's hardly going to be saying "look, mate, this is how our defence lines up so if you go for here or here we're in trouble"
And if Barrett is any good theres not a lot he can pick up in a few sessions with Eddie that would tell him more than just watching the Wales or Scotland games.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:16 am
by Digby
This has been known since Eddie signed, and we took him knowing him wanting to keep that link to Japan was a thing. Pretty shoddy journo work to try and pull a gotcha out of this.
If we wanted to fill his time more we could give him the England players more, he's unlikely to say no, but there are some issues with that
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:21 am
by Dan. Dan. Dan.
It certainly feels like the press has completely turned on Eddie. Not sure if he will relish it to be honest, as I think there's a definite tipping point where the players start to hear all the stuff in the media and question him. Iceman questioning his (clear and inarguable
) world class credentials, Itoje resenting not being pushed forward more, Curry second guessing the direction he's been told to run etc.
I really hope they don't because I still have a fair amount of faith that he (mostly) knows what he's doing.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:18 am
by fivepointer
Parts of the Press have taken an anti Jones stance. I think he's managed to piss a few of them off in one way or another.
Dont think there's much to this story. I imagine his contract allows him time away from England and will allow him to maintain established links. Being in a different environment and with different players might actually have some benefits to his coaching with England.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:33 am
by Oakboy
To be fair to journalists in this situation, might it not be reasonable to ask questions about commitment after our 6N performance - especially when the RFU committee appointed to do so has just been guilty of a whitewash? Perhaps the press are waking up to the truth and at last querying the extraordinary deal handed to Jones in 2015, followed by an extension of his contract.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:39 am
by Digby
No, because those same questions were relevant back when winning the 6N, that weird autumn thing (when playing badly) or reaching a WC final. The situation is not suddenly a differentiating factor as to why our pack conceded too many penalties and lost a few scrums. The soap opera style switching of takes on a person, especially based not on performance but results, isn't likely to change and it far predates Eddie, but it is daft.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:45 am
by Timbo
Oakboy wrote:To be fair to journalists in this situation, might it not be reasonable to ask questions about commitment after our 6N performance - especially when the RFU committee appointed to do so has just been guilty of a whitewash? Perhaps the press are waking up to the truth and at last querying the extraordinary deal handed to Jones in 2015, followed by an extension of his contract.
No. Any sort of vague knowledge about the bloke would tell you his commitment is beyond question. His work ethic and drive is insane. He literally nearly worked himself to death 10 years ago.
Plus, his work in Japan has been going on for decades and throughout his tenure as England coach. It’s not new knowledge. He even talks about it extensively in his book. This is Journalists with agendas trying to stick the knife in.
Re: We need to talk about Eddie...
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:57 am
by Mr Mwenda
Were you ghosted or something by Jones, Oakboy? You resemble Piers Morgan more each day
