Team vs Scotland

[Epaminondas Pules]

All in all a very frustrating game. Lots of possession and territory, but then large chunks of doing little with it. Ball presentation / ruck clearance was pretty poor, slowing us sufficiently, but then options off 9 and 10 were laboured in the main, meaning we often just ran into contact against a team that has built upon defence. Which seemed a rather odd tactic. When we did get round them we made good yards, and then went back into passages of running into a wall again.

17 missed tackles is a poor return, though oddly our discipline was the better of the two teams, which it didn't seem to be watching live. Mostly thanks to alcohol and only having one working eye.

The LCD thing....well, yeah. Catch it, or let the winger catch it and smash him, or frankly scan, but don't do what you did. Still, it is what it is, and shouldn't really have mattered had we not be so sub-optimal (and credit to Scotland here) in denting the scoreboard.

The bench offered little to nothing. They were largely the antithesis of 'finishers'. Ford made more tackles than the replacement forwards put together. Three of whom were on for over 17 minutes, who also combined to give us a mighty 2 carrier for 7 metres. For all the bench being strong, they were basically anonymous. Randall and Nowell aside.

Yes, good to praise the scots for their defence and taking their chances. The conditions weren't fab, but that doesn't excuse what was a very poor defensive effort out wide from us and some kicking choices on the front foot that were so sub optimal as to be underground.

And extra shit points for us in playing into their defensive hands, over and over again, even when we made significant ground and looked a threat in other areas, and then seemed to forget and revert to type of running into walls.

[Mellsblue]

Doesn’t sound like Jones completely trusts Smith. Counter to that, Ford does have previous in coming off the bench to help rescue a game vs Scotland.

Did the game need rescuing at that point?

Good point. The answer is no - the pen try was 3mins after Ford came on. I can only assume that Jones can see in to the future.

[Peej]

Also - I clicked that Dawson article, but as the headline includes the phrase 'Scotland were world class' I refuse to countenance reading it further

Their defence and Finn Russell were very good when it counted.

Yes, but is that really the definition of world class? Really? At least when the Welsh talk themselves up they have some evidence base. It seems to just be an annual tradition to suggest Scotland might be anything other than mediocre at the start of a tournament, and then reflect on the disappointment of not having finished above third come the end.* No one does delusions of grandeur like the Scots.

*If Scotland do win the tournament I am happy to admit I was wrong

[Banquo]

All in all a very frustrating game. Lots of possession and territory, but then large chunks of doing little with it. Ball presentation / ruck clearance was pretty poor, slowing us sufficiently, but then options off 9 and 10 were laboured in the main, meaning we often just ran into contact against a team that has built upon defence. Which seemed a rather odd tactic. When we did get round them we made good yards, and then went back into passages of running into a wall again.

17 missed tackles is a poor return, though oddly our discipline was the better of the two teams, which it didn't seem to be watching live. Mostly thanks to alcohol and only having one working eye.

The LCD thing....well, yeah. Catch it, or let the winger catch it and smash him, or frankly scan, but don't do what you did. Still, it is what it is, and shouldn't really have mattered had we not be so sub-optimal (and credit to Scotland here) in denting the scoreboard.

The bench offered little to nothing. They were largely the antithesis of 'finishers'. Ford made more tackles than the replacement forwards put together. Three of whom were on for over 17 minutes, who also combined to give us a mighty 2 carrier for 7 metres. For all the bench being strong, they were basically anonymous. Randall and Nowell aside.

Yes, good to praise the scots for their defence and taking their chances. The conditions weren't fab, but that doesn't excuse what was a very poor defensive effort out wide from us and some kicking choices on the front foot that were so sub optimal as to be underground.

And extra shit points for us in playing into their defensive hands, over and over again, even when we made significant ground and looked a threat in other areas, and then seemed to forget and revert to type of running into walls.

True, maybe that bigged up their tackle stats - which were top notch....

[Banquo]

Also - I clicked that Dawson article, but as the headline includes the phrase 'Scotland were world class' I refuse to countenance reading it further

Their defence and Finn Russell were very good when it counted.

Yes, but is that really the definition of world class? Really? At least when the Welsh talk themselves up they have some evidence base. It seems to just be an annual tradition to suggest Scotland might be anything other than mediocre at the start of a tournament, and then reflect on the disappointment of not having finished above third come the end.* No one does delusions of grandeur like the Scots.

*If Scotland do win the tournament I am happy to admit I was wrong

No - but elements of their play were. So more world class than us

[p/d]

Also - I clicked that Dawson article, but as the headline includes the phrase 'Scotland were world class' I refuse to countenance reading it further

Their defence and Finn Russell were very good when it counted.

Yes, but is that really the definition of world class? Really? At least when the Welsh talk themselves up they have some evidence base. It seems to just be an annual tradition to suggest Scotland might be anything other than mediocre at the start of a tournament, and then reflect on the disappointment of not having finished above third come the end.* No one does delusions of grandeur like the Scots.

*If Scotland do win the tournament I am happy to admit I was wrong

Dawson only referred to their play without the ball as world class, not their overall performance

[Peej]

Maybe I should have read the article after all!

[WaspInWales]

Brian Moore reckons a player should have gone down to allow George the time to get on the field. But short of Malins running into a post and going of for an HIA not sure how it would have not been a proper substitution

This is why physios and waterboys should carry blood capsules for players.

I've been toying with the idea for a while now and it's pretty much foolproof.

[p/d]

Maybe I should have read the article after all!

I had a similar response when seeing the headline. But took a deep breath and gave it a go

[WaspInWales]

No, but equally he didn't take Youngs off when Ford came on. Don't think anyone can say he doesn't trust Smith as frankly nobody knows but Jones.

I think it says more about Eddie's hard on for the 'finisher' tag. He clearly doesn't trust Randall yet, which is why Youngs stayed on. I think he trusts Smith and knows what he is capable of, but it's all about the finishers to close out these kinda games. There is also the possibility that Eddie is trying to protect Smith from getting all the plaudits in order to keep him grounded. Pure speculation of course and at odds with his pre-match comments about players making history.

The real issue for me is that Eddie's finishers gambit failed again. We have been in this situation so often, but he still persists. The bench options he had against Scotland were pretty fucking good tbh. Yet again, the wrong players are removed and some changes are not even needed. Plus not all the right players are used from the bench and some that are, get played out of position.

All for Eddie's fucking ego!

[Mikey Brown]

Yes, but is that really the definition of world class? Really? At least when the Welsh talk themselves up they have some evidence base. It seems to just be an annual tradition to suggest Scotland might be anything other than mediocre at the start of a tournament, and then reflect on the disappointment of not having finished above third come the end.* No one does delusions of grandeur like the Scots.

*If Scotland do win the tournament I am happy to admit I was wrong

I have no idea what it is you've been reading/hearing that makes you say this, other than a misquoted headline from bloody Matt Dawson.

I think everyone has moved on from the LCD penalty try at this point but I've only just got around to watching the whole game back. All of the outside backs are within 5 metres of the ruck, leaving Marchant (who understandably comes across when there is a line-break) to cover both fullback and left wing. It was just a good bit of play by Scotland, but please don't misconstrue that as me claiming Scotland are now the best team in the world.

[Banquo]

Yes, but is that really the definition of world class? Really? At least when the Welsh talk themselves up they have some evidence base. It seems to just be an annual tradition to suggest Scotland might be anything other than mediocre at the start of a tournament, and then reflect on the disappointment of not having finished above third come the end.* No one does delusions of grandeur like the Scots.

*If Scotland do win the tournament I am happy to admit I was wrong

I have no idea what it is you've been reading/hearing that makes you say this, other than a misquoted headline from bloody Matt Dawson.

I think everyone has moved on from the LCD penalty try at this point but I've only just got around to watching the whole game back. All of the outside backs are within 5 metres of the ruck, leaving Marchant (who understandably comes across when there is a line-break) to cover both fullback and left wing. It was just a good bit of play by Scotland, but please don't misconstrue that as me claiming Scotland are now the best team in the world.

That’s schoolboy defending though, surely…or system fault.

[Timbo]

Yes, but is that really the definition of world class? Really? At least when the Welsh talk themselves up they have some evidence base. It seems to just be an annual tradition to suggest Scotland might be anything other than mediocre at the start of a tournament, and then reflect on the disappointment of not having finished above third come the end.* No one does delusions of grandeur like the Scots.

*If Scotland do win the tournament I am happy to admit I was wrong

I have no idea what it is you've been reading/hearing that makes you say this, other than a misquoted headline from bloody Matt Dawson.

I think everyone has moved on from the LCD penalty try at this point but I've only just got around to watching the whole game back. All of the outside backs are within 5 metres of the ruck, leaving Marchant (who understandably comes across when there is a line-break) to cover both fullback and left wing. It was just a good bit of play by Scotland, but please don't misconstrue that as me claiming Scotland are now the best team in the world.

That’s schoolboy defending though, surely…or system fault.

I think Malins starting position should be slightly wider and better comms would have seen Youngs drop straight back to the posts allowing Marchant to stay closer to his wing. I expect they wouldn’t get caught in a similar way again, even against Russell’s pinpoint accuracy, which is really all you can ask from such an inexperienced and new back 3 unit.

[Cameo]

Yes, but is that really the definition of world class? Really? At least when the Welsh talk themselves up they have some evidence base. It seems to just be an annual tradition to suggest Scotland might be anything other than mediocre at the start of a tournament, and then reflect on the disappointment of not having finished above third come the end.* No one does delusions of grandeur like the Scots.

*If Scotland do win the tournament I am happy to admit I was wrong

I have no idea what it is you've been reading/hearing that makes you say this, other than a misquoted headline from bloody Matt Dawson.

I think everyone has moved on from the LCD penalty try at this point but I've only just got around to watching the whole game back. All of the outside backs are within 5 metres of the ruck, leaving Marchant (who understandably comes across when there is a line-break) to cover both fullback and left wing. It was just a good bit of play by Scotland, but please don't misconstrue that as me claiming Scotland are now the best team in the world.

Haha, I laughed at this comment too. Delusions of grandeur because Matt Dawson said we played well??

This comes up annually because a journalist asks whoever Scotland's captain is that year whether they think they have a chance. The response is somewhere along the lines of "it'll be tough but we believe we have the talent to compete". Other nation's fans then see a headline and seem to believe Scotland have announced that they are favourites.

[Banquo]

I have no idea what it is you've been reading/hearing that makes you say this, other than a misquoted headline from bloody Matt Dawson.

I think everyone has moved on from the LCD penalty try at this point but I've only just got around to watching the whole game back. All of the outside backs are within 5 metres of the ruck, leaving Marchant (who understandably comes across when there is a line-break) to cover both fullback and left wing. It was just a good bit of play by Scotland, but please don't misconstrue that as me claiming Scotland are now the best team in the world.

That’s schoolboy defending though, surely…or system fault.

I think Malins starting position should be slightly wider and better comms would have seen Youngs drop straight back to the posts allowing Marchant to stay closer to his wing. I expect they wouldn’t get caught in a similar way again, even against Russell’s pinpoint accuracy, which is really all you can ask from such an inexperienced and new back 3 unit.

I made the point about (4) new units elsewhere. But the system wasn’t very good either, esp with essentially a new back 5 defence… the midfield defence was exactly what Russell likes to play against. Eddie picked em, Eddie set it up…I’m quite tolerant with Eddie, but he’s really dicking about with the backs.

[p/d]

Should have started with the Juggernaut. Failing that a quickie out wide who could chase down LCD grubbers

[Banquo]

Yes, good to praise the scots for their defence and taking their chances. The conditions weren't fab, but that doesn't excuse what was a very poor defensive effort out wide from us and some kicking choices on the front foot that were so sub optimal as to be underground.

And extra shit points for us in playing into their defensive hands, over and over again, even when we made significant ground and looked a threat in other areas, and then seemed to forget and revert to type of running into walls.

As a neutral, I would say the England defence was pretty good until it wasn't. At the very least, you could see how they were rushing the Scots and strangling them out of the game.

I can not work out what they were trying to do on attack though.

I've seen a lot of salt over the penalty try, but like, how was it not?

You could see what they were trying to do, but doing it with backs that hadnt played together in a new system against a 10 who is pretty well known for unpicking narrow defences was asking for trouble, then compounded by not knowing how to reorganise.
Not sure there is much moaning over the PT, more trying to understand or clarify the procees, but instinctively looked a PT. Most are saying wtf was LCD doing and even why was he there.
Scots were good and earned it.

[Banquo]

As a neutral, I would say the England defence was pretty good until it wasn't. At the very least, you could see how they were rushing the Scots and strangling them out of the game.

I can not work out what they were trying to do on attack though.

I've seen a lot of salt over the penalty try, but like, how was it not?

You could see what they were trying to do, but doing it with backs that hadnt played together in a new system against a 10 who is pretty well known for unpicking narrow defences was asking for trouble, then compounded by not knowing how to reorganise.
Not sure there is much moaning over the PT, more trying to understand or clarify the procees, but instinctively looked a PT. Most are saying wtf was LCD doing and even why was he there.
Scots were good and earned it.

Quite a few people were salty as fuck on reddit, plus ol' Matt Williams who got bigly buttmad.

ah ok, I wasn't trying to speak for all of internet

[Puja]

As a neutral, I would say the England defence was pretty good until it wasn't. At the very least, you could see how they were rushing the Scots and strangling them out of the game.

I can not work out what they were trying to do on attack though.

I've seen a lot of salt over the penalty try, but like, how was it not?

You could see what they were trying to do, but doing it with backs that hadnt played together in a new system against a 10 who is pretty well known for unpicking narrow defences was asking for trouble, then compounded by not knowing how to reorganise.
Not sure there is much moaning over the PT, more trying to understand or clarify the procees, but instinctively looked a PT. Most are saying wtf was LCD doing and even why was he there.
Scots were good and earned it.

Quite a few people were salty as fuck on reddit, plus ol' Matt Williams who got bigly buttmad.

Just looked up Matt Williams: https://punditarena.com/rugby/eoin-hart ... nalty-try/

Clearly a man who doesn't understand how the laws of rugby work and isn't afraid to show off his ignorance. As soon as it's a penalty, it's a penalty try, because as soon as he commits an offence, it's whether a try would've scored if LCD wasn't there, rather than if he'd done something different. So unless we're claiming that Graham would be more likely to drop a simple catch than take one (and he's not Daly), it's a penalty try.

Puja

[Banquo]

You could see what they were trying to do, but doing it with backs that hadnt played together in a new system against a 10 who is pretty well known for unpicking narrow defences was asking for trouble, then compounded by not knowing how to reorganise.
Not sure there is much moaning over the PT, more trying to understand or clarify the procees, but instinctively looked a PT. Most are saying wtf was LCD doing and even why was he there.
Scots were good and earned it.

Quite a few people were salty as fuck on reddit, plus ol' Matt Williams who got bigly buttmad.

Just looked up Matt Williams: https://punditarena.com/rugby/eoin-hart ... nalty-try/

Clearly a man who doesn't understand how the laws of rugby work and isn't afraid to show off his ignorance. As soon as it's a penalty, it's a penalty try, because as soon as he commits an offence, it's whether a try would've scored if LCD wasn't there, rather than if he'd done something different. So unless we're claiming that Graham would be more likely to drop a simple catch than take one (and he's not Daly), it's a penalty try.

Puja

This is exactly what Which said earlier

I haven't checked again- painful- and the ONLY question I had was whether it was an easy catch for Graham if unhindered, and you've answered that.

[p/d]

Are you suggesting that if the situation was reversed the tmo would insist the officials watch a Daly highlight reel before coming to a decision?

[Puja]

Are you suggesting that if the situation was reversed the tmo would insist the officials watch a Daly highlight reel before coming to a decision?

"I'm just gonna show you another angle on this Ben."

Puja

[p/d]

Are you suggesting that if the situation was reversed the tmo would insist the officials watch a Daly highlight reel before coming to a decision?

"I'm just gonna show you another angle on this Ben."

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Are you suggesting that if the situation was reversed the tmo would insist the officials watch a Daly highlight reel before coming to a decision?

"I'm just gonna show you another angle on this Ben."

Puja

This

[Mellsblue]

Insert vomit emoji