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Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:28 am
by Banquo
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:04 am
Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 7:41 am
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:04 am
So so so many mistakes.I haven't seen us pass that much ball on the deck and to the opposition in a very very long time. I'll be a bit surprised if Ross Byrne survives as our no2 no10. And a misfiring line out is practically unheard of.
As for England, your main problems appear to be selection and tactics. You seem to have positively decided not to attempt to play until you get to 50+ minutes. My suspicion is that you just aren't fit enough to play the modern fast game for long enough - hence your team have the least sticky contact lenses in Christendom and constant niggles. When you decide to play and remove the anchor which is Youngs you can play a bit. Ford is a proper threat
Just selection and tactics
.
Seriously I’d add piss poor execution and dreadful ruck technique/decision making. Oh and defence and tackling.
. But kicking to us is just fucking mental. You'd have deserved the 22-22 Lowe nearly got.
Oh yes, mentioned elsewhere. And also that we should play quickly not slowly.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:46 am
by Mellsblue
Don’t worry, chaps, we won the territory battle. Ffs.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:09 pm
by Oakboy
I would be intrigued to know whether the kicking/territory game plan has consensus from the players. Every time Youngs box-kicks (usually badly) how many of the other fourteen are out of the game? Every time Farrell/Ford hoists it (whatever fancy label is attached) how many of the other fourteen are out of the game?
A clue might be in individual form. How many (if any) are right on top of their game?
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:09 pm
by Banquo
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:03 am
FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:05 am
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:04 am
Not just, but mainly...
There weren't a lot of positives.
But kicking to us is just fucking mental. You'd have deserved the 22-22 Lowe nearly got. And there is no question to which Youngs is a sensible answer in rugby as currently refereed. But Care and Fird can play the fast game and you have some athletes who can keep up. Manu will run good lines and Marchant has talent. But what the fuck's the point in any of them without actually passing the backs the ball before 60 minutes.
England had more territory than Ireland. Somewhat suggesting the kicking game didn't go that badly, especially since you guys dominated the breakdown. Wasn't a lot of point trying to run it from our own half so that you could turn us over and take easy shots at goal or to the corner (though your rolling mauls didn't go anywhere).
The backs saw more of the ball in this game than in the last two but when the ruck is so badly resourced and so effectively targeted they don't want the achingly slow ball that arrives at the same time as a defender.
The aim of the game is to score tries. You can grind away between the half and the 10 and your territory stats will look great. Similarly by the simple expedient of connecting tries quickly the same will happen. I've seen the ABs thump teams by 30 points with 35% territory because they get the ball and execute. Now of course territory is useful particularly if you're England and long range scores are unlikely. But I can't recall a single kick that actually achieved anything and i can recall a few kicking battles lost.
Totally agree. The only stat that counts is the scoreboard....cliche time
. But its the same philosophy that saw repeated rubbish grubber kicks in the last 6N.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:12 pm
by Banquo
Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:10 am
Itoje is fine, he's doing a lot of work.
I hope the Willises match the hype.
Hill ...
Quite- looks to me like he's he one doing the ruck work, by himself a lot of the time for 80 mins. I also think he's been told not to compete on the floor, though if he's doing a lot of clearing, then he can't do both.
That said, if Raggs was here with his stats, we could confirm that.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:13 pm
by p/d
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:46 am
Don’t worry, chaps, we won the territory battle. Ffs.
Tickled me that
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:17 pm
by Banquo
p/d wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:13 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:46 am
Don’t worry, chaps, we won the territory battle. Ffs.
Tickled me that
I think FKAS is channelling his inner Melchett.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:19 pm
by Banquo
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:26 pm
by p/d
Looks like the Scottish women have landed a better backs coach than us
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:32 pm
by Banquo
p/d wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:26 pm
Looks like the Scottish women have landed a better backs coach than us
Bananaman.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:39 pm
by FKAS
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:46 am
Don’t worry, chaps, we won the territory battle. Ffs.
That's not the point. It was a reply to a suggestion that our kicking game was crazy against that Irish team. I merely suggested that wasn't the case and that stats supported the view.
I know you don't like an interruption to the doom mongering but the kicking whilst dull to watch isn't inefficient.
What we do when we have the ball in the opposition third of the pitch is what's letting us down (still).
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:46 pm
by Banquo
...anyhoo, kicking badly v Fiji, pros and cons
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:59 pm
by Mellsblue
FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:39 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:46 am
Don’t worry, chaps, we won the territory battle. Ffs.
That's not the point. It was a reply to a suggestion that our kicking game was crazy against that Irish team. I merely suggested that wasn't the case and that stats supported the view.
I know you don't like an interruption to the doom mongering but the kicking whilst dull to watch isn't inefficient.
What we do when we have the ball in the opposition third of the pitch is what's letting us down (still).
Stat. Singular.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:01 pm
by Banquo
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:59 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:39 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:46 am
Don’t worry, chaps, we won the territory battle. Ffs.
That's not the point. It was a reply to a suggestion that our kicking game was crazy against that Irish team. I merely suggested that wasn't the case and that stats supported the view.
I know you don't like an interruption to the doom mongering but the kicking whilst dull to watch isn't inefficient.
What we do when we have the ball in the opposition third of the pitch is what's letting us down (still).
Stat. Singular.
Is there a momentum stat anywhere?
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:13 pm
by Mellsblue
This thread, including interlude from Sam Larner, is statistically illuminating:
https://x.com/nik_simon88/status/169374 ... MV3j-SK8yQ
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:27 pm
by Oakboy
Well, that's cheered me up no end. We are worst at just about everything that matters and best in the only stat that I could not give a monkey's testicle about.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:28 pm
by Banquo
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:27 pm
Well, that's cheered me up no end. We are worst at just about everything that matters and best in the only stat that I could not give a monkey's testicle about.
That's only ball in hand, testically speaking. Don't want to see tackle or penalty stats much either.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:35 pm
by Mikey Brown
Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:01 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:59 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:39 pm
That's not the point. It was a reply to a suggestion that our kicking game was crazy against that Irish team. I merely suggested that wasn't the case and that stats supported the view.
I know you don't like an interruption to the doom mongering but the kicking whilst dull to watch isn't inefficient.
What we do when we have the ball in the opposition third of the pitch is what's letting us down (still).
Stat. Singular.
Is there a momentum stat anywhere?
I’m hoping they can start providing stats soon on things like how good the group of lads are, how willing they are to work hard for the boys and their desire to get better every week.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:53 pm
by p/d
Is 10th good?
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:56 pm
by Banquo
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:35 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:01 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:59 pm
Stat. Singular.
Is there a momentum stat anywhere?
I’m hoping they can start providing stats soon on things like how good the group of lads are, how willing they are to work hard for the boys and their desire to get better every week.
I was mildly joking, but suspect yours are key KPI's in someones mind.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:07 pm
by p/d
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:27 pm
Well, that's cheered me up no end. We are worst at just about everything that matters and best in the only stat that I could not give a monkey's testicle about.
Dors, how about starting with Mitchell and Smith, Steward at 12 - Devoto style - and Lawrence 13. Back 3 of Arundell, Watson and Max the Merciless
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:55 pm
by Oakboy
p/d wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:07 pm
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:27 pm
Well, that's cheered me up no end. We are worst at just about everything that matters and best in the only stat that I could not give a monkey's testicle about.
Dors, how about starting with Mitchell and Smith, Steward at 12 - Devoto style - and Lawrence 13. Back 3 of Arundell, Watson and Max the Merciless
You don't rate Marchant? I'm happy with Lawrence at 12 and whilst I prefer Slade at 13, I'm OK with Marchant there. Malins at 15 seems worth a try. I'd settle for any backs line-up that does not have Youngs, Farrell or Tuilagi in it. The danger is that we might see some enterprising rugby. Is that allowed? I suppose not being able to sell thousands of Twickers tickets will wake somebody up.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:01 pm
by Mellsblue
p/d wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:53 pmIs 10th good?
Top 10 is good… oh, it’s out of 10 teams. As you were.
I hate to trivialise a horrific situation but are we the Russian army? We’ve won the territory battle (for now) but we’re light on ammo, we’ve lost hearts and minds, our best men are battle weary whilst their replacements aren’t up to it, and we’re in retreat and haven’t won a battle in ages. If so does that make the gaffer Sadimir Bootin’ (the ball away)? Or, perhaps, fkas is Vlad, proclaiming a great victory is within our grasp due to our territorial gains.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:11 pm
by Mikey Brown
I know I'm several days late on this but I've only just seen the Earl celebration when Ireland biffed that lineout. It really is awful.
I'm reminded of all those years as a Scotland fan where people would mock the team for celebrating a win over Italy or the USA, and that wasn't nearly as animated, or when a smaller side scores a consolation try in a drubbing by one of the big teams. I guess the thinking is that it shows the opposition how passionate and united you are as a team, and maybe that works when you're already on top, but right now it just looks like winning a penalty or observing a not-straight throw is the height of our ambitions.
Re: Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:29 pm
by Mellsblue
Mark Evans has a theory that the players haven’t bought in to Borthball and are so desperate to inject some passion and enthusiasm that they’re being relentless mocked on Twitter.
