Borthwick’s England 2.0

[Banquo]

Apologies posting this, it feels a bit like sharing a Daily Mail link, but this bit about Barbeary/Borthwick did make me laugh.

ffs. If its fitness, call it fckin fitness. But make it fitness to support a more interesting and challenging to execute tactic.

[Mellsblue]

A little bit of me just died listening to that. Does Slimy Bumooze not have a top class attach coach because there’s no need for a top class attack coach.
I’d love to be at the first coaches meeting involving Andrew ‘Dick’ Strawbridge.
Dick: What do you want me to concentrate on Borthers?
SB: Kick chase.
Dick: Cool. That’ll take up a morning. Then what?
SB: Kick chase.
Dick: Yes, but then what?
SB: More kick chase.
Dick: Anything else?
SB: Mooooooooooore kick chase.
Dick: There must be something else?!?!?
SB: That’s about it… oh, actually, could you work out what the f**k Wigglesworth does.

Poor old Nick Evans. He must still wake up screaming in the middle of the night.

[Margin_Walker]

FORWARDS
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 18 caps)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 107 caps)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks, 41 caps)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins, uncapped)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps)
Theo Dan (Saracens, 7 caps)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 15 caps)
Ben Earl (Saracens, 25 caps)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 58 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 85 caps) – captain
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 7 caps)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 11 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 76 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 88 caps)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
Ethan Roots (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 33 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 30 caps)

BACKS
Oscar Beard (Harlequins, uncapped)
Danny Care (Harlequins, 96 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 64 caps)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
George Ford (Sale Sharks, 91 caps)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 57 caps)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 30 caps)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 31 caps)

[Stom]

Some interesting choices in there.

Oscar Beard for one. I would never have seen that a couple of years ago. He's doing well, but I still get the sense he's kinda 3rd choice both at wing and centre for Quins, nevermind England.

Is this just because Murley, Lynagh, and Northmore are unavailable?

Cunningham-Smith, too, seems really early for him.

On the other side of the coin...

Still Dan Cole, a return for Isiekwe, and a place for Care and Daly... not sure about those.

[fivepointer]

George Martin?

Beard is a surprise. Isiekwe? I'd rather have Ewels.

[Captainhaircut]

Martin being injured is a real big blow. We’re not back to lock/6 hybrids. I would have thought Moon or Tuima would be worth a look here- hopefully they’ll be involved in A team.

Could CCS be looked at as a lock? We have so many backrowers and his lineout work is solid. Possibly mitigates his work around the field?

Only really poor pick I can see is LCD over Langdon. LCD’s form has been average at best and we know his commitment to England is limited given he was going to France. Langdon has been superb this season.

Daly very, very lucky to be in. I’m telling myself that he’s only in (along with Cole and Care) because we need that experience in the squad and we have some injuries/players who need another year or so to come through.

[Banquo]

Cole and Care? Roots, really? Isiekwe? Is Sinckler crocked? No Barbeary?

Them aside, a reward for form, bar Daly who has looked out of it

Amazing Freeman only has three caps, some injury notwithstanding. Shame about Arundell not being available.

[Danno]

Jeeeez the front-row cupboard is bare. Dan Cole is gonna sue for abuse of the elderly at this rate.

[Puja]

I'm actually quite pleased with Beard being in. He's been in great form for Quins, looks to've stepped up another level this season, and pace in the centres is never to be sniffed at. Don't think he'll make a XXIII, but good call for the greater squad and definitely for the A team.

Disappointed in Daly and, to a lesser extent, Slade. Neither are the future and it feels like it'd be easy to pick them rather than committing properly to a revamp. I'm hoping Isiekwe isn't being brought in because we're still planning on sticking locks at 6. Just pick three from BCurry, Pearson, Earl, Dombrandt, and Underhill and go from there. I'd actually rather Root than another lock.

Puja

[Puja]

Jeeeez the front-row cupboard is bare. Dan Cole is gonna sue for abuse of the elderly at this rate.

I had hoped for Painter in the first few weeks of the season, but he seems to've fallen down the pecking order at Exeter.

Is Sinckler crocked? No Barbeary?

What's Sinckler done to warrant being selected? Cole's 95 years old, but at least he, Stuart, and Heyes have been doing okay in the Prem.

Not sure if Barbeary is about his workrate levels or if Stoic Barista knows something about his citing, like he's planning on pleading guilty.

Puja

[francoisfou]

Zach Mercer and Tom Willis omitted?

[Danno]

Zach Mercer and Tom Willis omitted?

TW had surgery recently (knee iirc). Stabbed Beehive just doesn't like Mercer, it seems.

[Which Tyler]

LP: Genge, Marler, Obano
HK: Cowan-Dickie, Dan, George
TP: Cole, Heyes, Stuart
LK: Chessum, Coles Isiekwe, Itoje
FL: Curry, Earl, Pearson, Roots, Underhill
N8: Cunningham-South, Dombrandt

SH: Care, Mitchell, Spencer
FH: Ford, F. Smith, M. Smith
IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade
WG: Daly, Feyi-Waboso, Freeman, Roebuck
FB: Furbank, Steward

[Oakboy]

Overall, it's an OK squad and there is a decent XV within it. C-S ahead of Fisilau is odd, IMO. Arguing over this or that individual included or omitted matters far less than how the team will be set up to play.

I suppose some backs selections (Slade, F-W and Furbank) suggest some reduction in 'kick and hope'. Conversely, Spencer and Roebuck might support it.

[Puja]

LP: Genge, Marler, Obano
HK: Cowan-Dickie, Dan, George
TP: Cole, Heyes, Stuart
LK: Chessum, Coles Isiekwe, Itoje
FL: Curry, Earl, Pearson, Roots, Underhill
N8: Cunningham-South, Dombrandt

SH: Care, Mitchell, Spencer
FH: Ford, F. Smith, M. Smith
IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade
WG: Daly, Feyi-Waboso, Freeman, Roebuck
FB: Furbank, Steward

You've done the gods work there, although I'd argue that Dingwall is a 12 (given that he plays there a bunch of the time for Saints) and that Earl is an 8 (as he's the incumbent).

Instructive to see just how few locks there are in the squad - very much suggests planning actually playing three back rows.

Puja

[FKAS]

Real shame George Martin has picked up an injury. According to the Tigers press release it's a short term injury though it being a knee injury again is a concern as he's had two serious knee injuries previously. Hopefully he can come back in later.

Largely as expected. Roots, Underhill, Earl backrow and midfield of Lawrence/Slade or Dingwall/Lawrence you'd expect.

No Warr and no Fisilau is a shame. Care is past it and Spencer a short term option, Warr would have been preferable not least because he's great at applying pressure to his opposite number as well as having solid basics.

[Stom]

Genge
George
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt
Mitchell
MSmith
Beard
Dingwall
Lawrence
Freeman
Steward

Dan, Marler, Heyes, Coles, CCS, Care, FSmith, Furbank

There are some holes in the squad that worry me. I think we're going to see a lock at 6, despite the lack of locks in the squad. And I think we're going to see Daly in the XV. The above is my attempt at putting out a decent team, but it's imbalanced, imo.

[Oakboy]

Club - Forwards/ Backs

Bath 3 / 2
Bristol 1 /
Exeter 1 / 2
Gloucester
Harlequins 3 / 3
Leicester 3 / 1
Newcastle
Northampton 2 / 5
Sale 2 / 2
Saracens 5 / 1

[Puja]

Genge
George
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt
Mitchell
MSmith
Beard
Dingwall
Lawrence
Freeman
Steward

Dan, Marler, Heyes, Coles, CCS, Care, FSmith, Furbank

There are some holes in the squad that worry me. I think we're going to see a lock at 6, despite the lack of locks in the squad. And I think we're going to see Daly in the XV. The above is my attempt at putting out a decent team, but it's imbalanced, imo.

Beard's played pretty much nothing but 13 for this season and last. Would be surprised if he's being considered on the wing.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Well. Hmm.

That’s about all I’ve got.

[Puja]

Some quotes from the big Simone Beauvoir (nicked from the Telegraph liveblog):

On Alfie Barbeary: “I rate Alfie very highly. I have said that to him. We met a few weeks ago in a health-food café in Bath. We had a good chat. I spoke to him yesterday and we have been in regular contact. Is the disciplinary hearing a factor? Yes, there’s no doubt about it because I want certainty. Do I think he’s going to feature in an England team in the near future? Yes.”

On other potential captaincy options: “There are a good number of names. In the past, England did not necessarily have the leaders but, over the past 12 months, under Owen, this has been a group who have brought themselves together. Genge, Marler, Itoje, Care, Sladey... the list goes on. But Jamie is the outstanding one for this team right now.”

On omissions of Kyle Sinkler and Billy Vunipola: “I spoke to both players regularly about what I’d like to see develop in their games to be in the squad. But it’s so competitive. Will Stuart has been excellent for Bath; Joe Heyes has shown a real development in his game this season; and Dan Cole – it’s important to recognise his impact.

“This time last year, England’s scrum was ranked 10th in the world and it’s now a good number of places higher. He has influenced that. I’m pretty sure Kyle will be in the squad in the future. I sensed determination from him to work on the areas we discussed.”

On the need for the squad to match his style of play: “The need to evolve and move forward is constantly there, but we have to make sure the foundations are strong. We made progress in that regard last year and around half of the players in the World Cup squad are in this squad, we have a real good mix. I’m really excited about bringing that mix of players together.”

On talking Immanuel Feyi-Waboso in playing for England over Wales: “Manny and I spoke some weeks ago and we have been in regular contact with him and Rob Baxter, who has been excellent. Manny has really impressed us, not just on the pitch, but he’s a real mature guy, restarting from a rugby and studies perspective after what happened with Wasps and arriving in Exeter.

“He did not take much persuading. When I rang him, he said he’d just finished his university studies for the day. I told him I was naming him in my squad and I could sense that excitement and buzz down the phone. I could sense he was thrilled. That gave me energy.”

Puja

[Puja]

Interesting that there's no Joe Cokanasiga in the squad. Glad about it though - he has been given so many chances on the basis of his physical frame and early promise and hasn't repaid the faith.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Some quotes from the big Simone Beauvoir (nicked from the Telegraph liveblog):

On Alfie Barbeary: “I rate Alfie very highly. I have said that to him. We met a few weeks ago in a health-food café in Bath. We had a good chat. I spoke to him yesterday and we have been in regular contact. Is the disciplinary hearing a factor? Yes, there’s no doubt about it because I want certainty. Do I think he’s going to feature in an England team in the near future? Yes.”

On other potential captaincy options: “There are a good number of names. In the past, England did not necessarily have the leaders but, over the past 12 months, under Owen, this has been a group who have brought themselves together. Genge, Marler, Itoje, Care, Sladey... the list goes on. But Jamie is the outstanding one for this team right now.”

On omissions of Kyle Sinkler and Billy Vunipola: “I spoke to both players regularly about what I’d like to see develop in their games to be in the squad. But it’s so competitive. Will Stuart has been excellent for Bath; Joe Heyes has shown a real development in his game this season; and Dan Cole – it’s important to recognise his impact.

“This time last year, England’s scrum was ranked 10th in the world and it’s now a good number of places higher. He has influenced that. I’m pretty sure Kyle will be in the squad in the future. I sensed determination from him to work on the areas we discussed.”

On the need for the squad to match his style of play: “The need to evolve and move forward is constantly there, but we have to make sure the foundations are strong. We made progress in that regard last year and around half of the players in the World Cup squad are in this squad, we have a real good mix. I’m really excited about bringing that mix of players together.”

On talking Immanuel Feyi-Waboso in playing for England over Wales: “Manny and I spoke some weeks ago and we have been in regular contact with him and Rob Baxter, who has been excellent. Manny has really impressed us, not just on the pitch, but he’s a real mature guy, restarting from a rugby and studies perspective after what happened with Wasps and arriving in Exeter.

“He did not take much persuading. When I rang him, he said he’d just finished his university studies for the day. I told him I was naming him in my squad and I could sense that excitement and buzz down the phone. I could sense he was thrilled. That gave me energy.”

Puja

All I’m taking from this is that Sinckler needs to work on his kick chase.

[Puja]

Club - Forwards/ Backs

Bath 3 / 2
Bristol 1 /
Exeter 1 / 2
Gloucester
Harlequins 3 / 3
Leicester 3 / 1
Newcastle
Northampton 2 / 5
Sale 2 / 2
Saracens 5 / 1

The top three in the Prem providing 18 of the 36 players. Impressive rewarding of form.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

All I’m taking from this is that Sinckler needs to work on his kick chase.

You’re not inspired by the list of new captaincy candidates that Farrell has brought through?