England vs South Africa

[Digby]

Using his inside shoulder isn't the problem - the problem is that his arm is by his side, not outstretched. The issue is the shape of the shoulder. If you lift your arm up, then your shoulder is flat. If you have it down by your side, then it's pointy. The law about using your arms isn't about catching someone or holding them, it's designed so that you can't just shove the pointy shoulder into someone.

What Farrell does (having seen a replay) is throw his shoulder in and then whip his arm round to try and hold, which is not okay. What he should have done is have his arm out as he tackles - it's not as strong or forceful and there is a chance he might get beaten for going so high, but it is a) legal and b) not dangerous.

Puja

How do you have your arms out as you run up and across with the carrier also running across if you're going for a tackle with the inside shoulder? If his right arm is out it just gets pushed back into him or spins him around to an attacker stepping back on the inside, and with the direction of the runs of both Farrell and Esterhuizen the left shoulder and arm are wholly incidental, indeed the left arm needs to come a long way around just to be a loose flappy thing that happens to be in the picture even if not doing anything

For me the game needs to think seriously about what sort of explosive contact work it wants as the only way I can see Farrell getting a runner with that power and pace on that angle down is to wholly change his technique and sort his footwork to effect a left shoulder tackle with his head on the outside of Esterhuizen's left hip. That would be far more akin to the soak tackles from the amateur game, and would be derided by an overwhelming number of modern defence coaches

But given this particular scenario I don't see how you can use the inside shoulder and not be making a hit rather than a tackle. And I think I know what Farrell would be told had he tried to make a left shoulder tackle and been beaten for pace by what's likely a faster player

So, what should be allowed here?

(I'm not saying all inside shoulder tackles make a safe use of the arms impossible, but some do including this one so far as I can see)

I'm not sure who taught you how to tackle but if a player is running across you then you don't use the inside shoulder as your head will be on the wrong side, this was a blatant no arms tackle whichever way you look at it.

I'm not sure you've seen the tackle or actually read my post

[Puja]

How did you evaluate England’s 12-11 win over South Africa? Did it represent a fortunate escape or a mark of impressive resilience? Both views are fair.

Eddie Jones will have been pleased with some aspects of his latest victory. But, before New Zealand arrive at Twickenham this weekend, he must also address concerns that arose during a frenetic, back-and-forth Test. First, a few fixes.
Taking a kicking

South Africa’s varied kicking game caused havoc in the early part of the contest as England seemed to be settling into a slightly different defensive system. On five occasions over the opening half-hour, the Springboks recovered possession after putting boot to ball:

It appears as though new defence coach John Mitchell has asked his wingers to press up flat into the front line where possible rather than hanging back, leaving the full-back and one other teammate – either the scrum-half or one of the wingers – to cover a great deal of ground.

This is something close to the ’13-2’ formation we saw Leinster use to great effect last season, which aims to keep plenty of men on their feet and crowd out attacking teams. There is also width in the line to capitalise on turnover ball more quickly.

Mitchell has seemingly given his scrum-halves license to drop back or push up, either around the fringes or further out, as they see fit. Ironically, this is the sort of free role that Faf de Klerk has excelled in with South Africa.

England experienced some teething positional problems on Saturday. We begin with England right wing Jack Nowell up flat as South Africa scrum-half Ivan van Zyl prepares to hoist a box-kick (2 on the kicking map above).

Note that Ben Youngs is sitting a few metres behind the flat line with Elliot Daly somewhere behind the breakdown and Jonny May out towards the far touchline. Nowell points back towards Daly…
England

…but Aphiwe Dyantyi climbs above the isolated England full-back to secure possession:
England

To their credit, England react well. As Van Zyl feeds full-back Damian Willemse, Youngs drops into the pocket behind the front line and May pushes out and up flat:
England

When the ball is moved out to Damian de Allende, May anticipates the grubber well and turns to collect (3 on the kicking map). However, he spills and Sbu Nkosi gathers.

Aaron Smith and Beauden Barrett are experts at manipulating defences with the boot, either by hoisting the ball high for chasers to contest or by stabbing cross-field kick-passes into space.

Players like Ben Smith and Codie Taylor thrive in broken-field situations, so New Zealand tend to pile on points when they recover their own kicks. England must be more assured in the air, which may mean bringing back Mike Brown.

England’s kicking game blew hot and cold. Youngs and Owen Farrell weighted some high balls well, allowing chasers to pressurise South Africa and force errors. However, there were also longer clearances that gave the Springboks scope to counter. New Zealand cannot be allowed similar freedom.

As well as peppering the All Blacks with accurate kicks, Ireland trusted their phase-play in Chicago two years ago. Here, Farrell goes to the air with Henry Slade calling for a pass, seeing three tight-five forwards opposite him in South Africa’s defensive line:
England

Nowell actually recovered this ball for England, but a better decision might have been to keep the ball in hand.
Penalty clusters

As we will discuss, England were disciplined in some areas. What allowed South Africa to dominate territory and possession initially, though, were two clusters of back-to-back offences. First, this one in the lead-up to Handre Pollard’s opening penalty goal:
Cluster

And then this one:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... tle-lions/

You could attribute the lineout infringements to an eagerness to stop South Africa’s strong maul. Still, compounding penalties always creates problems.

Rassie Erasmus’ side were remarkably wasteful, Malcolm Marx overthrowing twice on the five-metre line and Siya Kolisi spilling in the middle of a maul. New Zealand will not be as charitable.
Midfield blend

On to some more encouraging points. Although there were defensive issues, England’s midfield finally offered an attacking balance with Ben Te’o providing ballast either side of Farrell and Slade.

That helped to create space from the start. Here, Te’o’s run holds Jesse Kriel, who may have been concerned about having a loosehead prop, Steven Kitshoff, alongside him in the defensive line.

Meanwhile, South Africa full-back Willemse has to press up from the back-field outside his right wing S’bu Nkosi because England have Daly and May lurking in the 15-metre channel:
England

Farrell finds Slade, who sees space in behind Willemse…
England

And clips through for May and Daly to chase. The ball just dribbles out into touch. Had it stayed in, England would have scored.

Later, in the second half, we see the value of what Jones has preached throughout his tenure – bouncing off the floor and into the game. Look at the three tight-five forwards on the near side of the breakdown as Brad Shields carries. Te’o has trucked the ball up on the previous phase, and is inside that white circle with Slade and Zach Mercer:
England

All three scamper back into position…
England

…and Te’o takes the ball at first-receiver when Youngs bounces back to the near side. South Africa’s defensive line is disorganised:
England

A pull-back pass goes behind Mercer to Farrell…
England

…who waits for Pollard to shoot past and steps inside De Allende:
England

He frees Slade…
England

…who offloads to Daly, and a scoring pass to May should have arrived at this point. Instead, the full-back stepped inside:
England

Tellingly, when England brought on George Ford for Te’o and paired Farrell in the centres with Slade, they missed Te’o’s power. Here, South Africa do not buy Slade’s decoy run and drift off onto Ford as Dyantyi shoots forward to cut off the wide channels:
England

Ford was held up in a tackle and South Africa’s scrum forced a penalty – the shot that Pollard missed.
Better at the breakdown

England conceded only one breakdown penalty across attack and defence – a fantastic return given their woes earlier in 2018 and an endorsement of Mitchell’s impact. They only lost two of 79 rucks as well. That was partly due to tighter support play but also to diligence on the floor.

Here, for example, Tom Curry stretches to place the ball back as Duane Vermeulen and Marx hover. Alec Hepburn and Shields, who cuts in at the corner, recycle and Vermeulen overbalances, meaning he cannot address the ball:
England

In the second half, May was shackled by De Allende on a kick-return. Marx seems poised to steal…
England

…and gets himself into a great position with Warren Whiteley binding on. However, May rolls on the floor to make the ball a moving target. Meanwhile, Ben Moon, George Kruis and Mercer steam in…
England

…and clear Marx:
England

Jerome Garces, in charge of the New Zealand match, will allow defending teams to compete more vigorously on the floor than Angus Gardner did. Even so, the signs are encouraging.

Defensively, England made two jackal turnovers. Mark Wilson won the first, riding a clear-out from Vermeulen to do so:
England

The Newcastle Falcon also demonstrated England’s restraint around the tackle area. Here, in the final stages, he shoots up to tackle Wilco Louw…
England

…before bouncing to his feet and re-joining the line:
England

England have nobody in the breakdown and 13 players on their feet in the front line with Danny Care and Daly in behind.

Curry, Shields, Te’o and Farrell all forced turnovers with powerful, upper-body tackles. Kyle Sinckler and Ben Moon registered dominant defensive collisions too. On the whole, England’s tackle choice was good.
Scrum-half scramble

We finish with one tactic that England may have been honing specifically with New Zealand in mind – allowing their scrum-halves a free role. De Klerk constantly harassed the All Blacks by shooting up from the pocket and Mitchell will want to disrupt Steve Hansen’s men in the same way.

This sequence starts with RG Snyman receiving a pass from Embrose Papier. England wings are up flat and Care is sitting in the pocket but fairly shallow behind his front-line teammates:
England

Harry Williams and Charlie Ewels combine to make a low chop-tackle on Snyman. Mercer has a small window to compete, but declines:
England

At this stage, Care shoots up. England have 14 men in the front line now (as shown by their shirt numbers below):
England

However, Slade is caught narrow and Elton Jantjies’s sends De Allende on a scything break. Look at both Farrell and Care. Both of them have to readjust:
England

De Allende steps inside Farrell, but is brought down by Care:
England

This was a try-saving intervention, and underlines the importance of being able to adapt within a framework. England will certainly need to think on their feet this weekend.

Eddie Jones says he has a plan to beat the All Blacks. It will be fascinating to see what he comes up with.

Puja

[Stom]

How did you evaluate England’s 12-11 win over South Africa? Did it represent a fortunate escape or a mark of impressive resilience? Both views are fair.

Eddie Jones will have been pleased with some aspects of his latest victory. But, before New Zealand arrive at Twickenham this weekend, he must also address concerns that arose during a frenetic, back-and-forth Test. First, a few fixes.
Taking a kicking

South Africa’s varied kicking game caused havoc in the early part of the contest as England seemed to be settling into a slightly different defensive system. On five occasions over the opening half-hour, the Springboks recovered possession after putting boot to ball:

It appears as though new defence coach John Mitchell has asked his wingers to press up flat into the front line where possible rather than hanging back, leaving the full-back and one other teammate – either the scrum-half or one of the wingers – to cover a great deal of ground.

This is something close to the ’13-2’ formation we saw Leinster use to great effect last season, which aims to keep plenty of men on their feet and crowd out attacking teams. There is also width in the line to capitalise on turnover ball more quickly.

Mitchell has seemingly given his scrum-halves license to drop back or push up, either around the fringes or further out, as they see fit. Ironically, this is the sort of free role that Faf de Klerk has excelled in with South Africa.

England experienced some teething positional problems on Saturday. We begin with England right wing Jack Nowell up flat as South Africa scrum-half Ivan van Zyl prepares to hoist a box-kick (2 on the kicking map above).

Note that Ben Youngs is sitting a few metres behind the flat line with Elliot Daly somewhere behind the breakdown and Jonny May out towards the far touchline. Nowell points back towards Daly…
England

…but Aphiwe Dyantyi climbs above the isolated England full-back to secure possession:
England

To their credit, England react well. As Van Zyl feeds full-back Damian Willemse, Youngs drops into the pocket behind the front line and May pushes out and up flat:
England

When the ball is moved out to Damian de Allende, May anticipates the grubber well and turns to collect (3 on the kicking map). However, he spills and Sbu Nkosi gathers.

Aaron Smith and Beauden Barrett are experts at manipulating defences with the boot, either by hoisting the ball high for chasers to contest or by stabbing cross-field kick-passes into space.

Players like Ben Smith and Codie Taylor thrive in broken-field situations, so New Zealand tend to pile on points when they recover their own kicks. England must be more assured in the air, which may mean bringing back Mike Brown.

England’s kicking game blew hot and cold. Youngs and Owen Farrell weighted some high balls well, allowing chasers to pressurise South Africa and force errors. However, there were also longer clearances that gave the Springboks scope to counter. New Zealand cannot be allowed similar freedom.

As well as peppering the All Blacks with accurate kicks, Ireland trusted their phase-play in Chicago two years ago. Here, Farrell goes to the air with Henry Slade calling for a pass, seeing three tight-five forwards opposite him in South Africa’s defensive line:
England

Nowell actually recovered this ball for England, but a better decision might have been to keep the ball in hand.
Penalty clusters

As we will discuss, England were disciplined in some areas. What allowed South Africa to dominate territory and possession initially, though, were two clusters of back-to-back offences. First, this one in the lead-up to Handre Pollard’s opening penalty goal:
Cluster

And then this one:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... tle-lions/

You could attribute the lineout infringements to an eagerness to stop South Africa’s strong maul. Still, compounding penalties always creates problems.

Rassie Erasmus’ side were remarkably wasteful, Malcolm Marx overthrowing twice on the five-metre line and Siya Kolisi spilling in the middle of a maul. New Zealand will not be as charitable.
Midfield blend

On to some more encouraging points. Although there were defensive issues, England’s midfield finally offered an attacking balance with Ben Te’o providing ballast either side of Farrell and Slade.

That helped to create space from the start. Here, Te’o’s run holds Jesse Kriel, who may have been concerned about having a loosehead prop, Steven Kitshoff, alongside him in the defensive line.

Meanwhile, South Africa full-back Willemse has to press up from the back-field outside his right wing S’bu Nkosi because England have Daly and May lurking in the 15-metre channel:
England

Farrell finds Slade, who sees space in behind Willemse…
England

And clips through for May and Daly to chase. The ball just dribbles out into touch. Had it stayed in, England would have scored.

Later, in the second half, we see the value of what Jones has preached throughout his tenure – bouncing off the floor and into the game. Look at the three tight-five forwards on the near side of the breakdown as Brad Shields carries. Te’o has trucked the ball up on the previous phase, and is inside that white circle with Slade and Zach Mercer:
England

All three scamper back into position…
England

…and Te’o takes the ball at first-receiver when Youngs bounces back to the near side. South Africa’s defensive line is disorganised:
England

A pull-back pass goes behind Mercer to Farrell…
England

…who waits for Pollard to shoot past and steps inside De Allende:
England

He frees Slade…
England

…who offloads to Daly, and a scoring pass to May should have arrived at this point. Instead, the full-back stepped inside:
England

Tellingly, when England brought on George Ford for Te’o and paired Farrell in the centres with Slade, they missed Te’o’s power. Here, South Africa do not buy Slade’s decoy run and drift off onto Ford as Dyantyi shoots forward to cut off the wide channels:
England

Ford was held up in a tackle and South Africa’s scrum forced a penalty – the shot that Pollard missed.
Better at the breakdown

England conceded only one breakdown penalty across attack and defence – a fantastic return given their woes earlier in 2018 and an endorsement of Mitchell’s impact. They only lost two of 79 rucks as well. That was partly due to tighter support play but also to diligence on the floor.

Here, for example, Tom Curry stretches to place the ball back as Duane Vermeulen and Marx hover. Alec Hepburn and Shields, who cuts in at the corner, recycle and Vermeulen overbalances, meaning he cannot address the ball:
England

In the second half, May was shackled by De Allende on a kick-return. Marx seems poised to steal…
England

…and gets himself into a great position with Warren Whiteley binding on. However, May rolls on the floor to make the ball a moving target. Meanwhile, Ben Moon, George Kruis and Mercer steam in…
England

…and clear Marx:
England

Jerome Garces, in charge of the New Zealand match, will allow defending teams to compete more vigorously on the floor than Angus Gardner did. Even so, the signs are encouraging.

Defensively, England made two jackal turnovers. Mark Wilson won the first, riding a clear-out from Vermeulen to do so:
England

The Newcastle Falcon also demonstrated England’s restraint around the tackle area. Here, in the final stages, he shoots up to tackle Wilco Louw…
England

…before bouncing to his feet and re-joining the line:
England

England have nobody in the breakdown and 13 players on their feet in the front line with Danny Care and Daly in behind.

Curry, Shields, Te’o and Farrell all forced turnovers with powerful, upper-body tackles. Kyle Sinckler and Ben Moon registered dominant defensive collisions too. On the whole, England’s tackle choice was good.
Scrum-half scramble

We finish with one tactic that England may have been honing specifically with New Zealand in mind – allowing their scrum-halves a free role. De Klerk constantly harassed the All Blacks by shooting up from the pocket and Mitchell will want to disrupt Steve Hansen’s men in the same way.

This sequence starts with RG Snyman receiving a pass from Embrose Papier. England wings are up flat and Care is sitting in the pocket but fairly shallow behind his front-line teammates:
England

Harry Williams and Charlie Ewels combine to make a low chop-tackle on Snyman. Mercer has a small window to compete, but declines:
England

At this stage, Care shoots up. England have 14 men in the front line now (as shown by their shirt numbers below):
England

However, Slade is caught narrow and Elton Jantjies’s sends De Allende on a scything break. Look at both Farrell and Care. Both of them have to readjust:
England

De Allende steps inside Farrell, but is brought down by Care:
England

This was a try-saving intervention, and underlines the importance of being able to adapt within a framework. England will certainly need to think on their feet this weekend.

Eddie Jones says he has a plan to beat the All Blacks. It will be fascinating to see what he comes up with.

Puja

If you sign up to the Telegraph, you get a few free articles a month. That *might* cover the AIs...

His calls are interesting and I'd also like to say that I predicted we'd somewhat solve our penalty/defensive issues after watching Quins so far this season! Convex Hull was wrong when he said Gustard was better than Farrell Snr, that's for sure!!!

[fivepointer]

This bit stood out - "England conceded only one breakdown penalty across attack and defence – a fantastic return given their woes earlier in 2018 and an endorsement of Mitchell’s impact. They only lost two of 79 rucks as well. That was partly due to tighter support play but also to diligence on the floor"

[Digby]

This is something close to the ’13-2’ Convex Hull was wrong when he said Gustard was better than Farrell Snr, that's for sure!!!

According to Eddie, Gustard was emasculated during his time with England as there wasn't an English coach to inspire the players. At least I'm assuming it was Gustard he was trolling not Borthwick, and I suppose there's always a slim chance it was more of the bollocks that spills from Eddie's mouth when speaking to the press

[Oakboy]

This is the bit that niggled me, "Farrell goes to the air with Henry Slade calling for a pass, seeing three tight-five forwards opposite him in South Africa’s defensive line."


So was Farrell kicking everything at that stage because he had been told to? Or, does he always ignore team-mates' calls because he's co-captain and knows better? Or, is he simply not able to think on his feet?

[Beasties]

Am I wilfully just not remembering this? It's so infrequent that it reaches the point where he made his break and SA seemed to have given up on the idea he might attack the line. I saw a journo earlier talking about him "getting the backline flowing beautifully" and I just don't have a clue what he could have been referring to.

Yeah, he makes a nice line break about once a year; because the rest of the time he offers so little threat that defenders don't bother marking him.

Here it is, Morgan calls it as Te'o, Mercer and Slade doing the good work.

One of Youngs' regular specials there....

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, he makes a nice line break about once a year; because the rest of the time he offers so little threat that defenders don't bother marking him.

Here it is, Morgan calls it as Te'o, Mercer and Slade doing the good work.

One of Youngs' regular specials there....

I find it difficult to accelerate at the best of times, but leaning back with my arms above my head definitely doesn’t help.

[Puja]

This is the bit that niggled me, "Farrell goes to the air with Henry Slade calling for a pass, seeing three tight-five forwards opposite him in South Africa’s defensive line."


So was Farrell kicking everything at that stage because he had been told to? Or, does he always ignore team-mates' calls because he's co-captain and knows better? Or, is he simply not able to think on his feet?

In fairness, from the picture it looks like Slade was calling for it from Youngs, and he was ignored in favour of passing deep to Fazlet.

I'm disappointed by that Morgan analysis actually. I'd've expected a bit about Farrell passing to stop people dead and picking the pull back when nobody was committed.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

This is the bit that niggled me, "Farrell goes to the air with Henry Slade calling for a pass, seeing three tight-five forwards opposite him in South Africa’s defensive line."


So was Farrell kicking everything at that stage because he had been told to? Or, does he always ignore team-mates' calls because he's co-captain and knows better? Or, is he simply not able to think on his feet?

I'd've expected a bit about Farrell passing to stop people dead and picking the pull back when nobody was committed.

Puja

That’s how I remember it.

[Mikey Brown]

Gosh. This is... weird.

http://sport.bt.com/eddie-jones-youre-g ... 4307778183

[Stom]

This is the bit that niggled me, "Farrell goes to the air with Henry Slade calling for a pass, seeing three tight-five forwards opposite him in South Africa’s defensive line."


So was Farrell kicking everything at that stage because he had been told to? Or, does he always ignore team-mates' calls because he's co-captain and knows better? Or, is he simply not able to think on his feet?

In fairness, from the picture it looks like Slade was calling for it from Youngs, and he was ignored in favour of passing deep to Fazlet.

I'm disappointed by that Morgan analysis actually. I'd've expected a bit about Farrell passing to stop people dead and picking the pull back when nobody was committed.

Puja

Yeah. After joining the Telegraph, Farrell became untouchable... Its weird.

[Lizard]

Gosh. This is... weird.

http://sport.bt.com/eddie-jones-youre-g ... 4307778183

“This video is not available in your country”

What is it?

[Puja]

Gosh. This is... weird.

http://sport.bt.com/eddie-jones-youre-g ... 4307778183

“This video is not available in your country”

What is it?

Eddie getting a strop on at the press after the question, "Is this the most important victory of your reign?"

"I don't get this guys?...Why has it got to be the most important game? Because you guys want to sack me. Is that why? Well, you're going to do it at some stage. You know that. You know that. If I stay long enough, you're going to get me sacked. So you'll be happy. One day, you'll be happy here boys. You'll come in and say, 'Ah, fantastic - we've got another bloke we can terrorise.' Don't worry about it."

Puja

[Lizard]

He is a fuckin’ odd bird, sometimes.

Mind you he’s been fired from most other gigs so he’s no doubt expecting it.

[Spiffy]

Gosh. This is... weird.

http://sport.bt.com/eddie-jones-youre-g ... 4307778183

“This video is not available in your country”

What is it?

Eddie getting a strop on at the press after the question, "Is this the most important victory of your reign?"

"I don't get this guys?...Why has it got to be the most important game? Because you guys want to sack me. Is that why? Well, you're going to do it at some stage. You know that. You know that. If I stay long enough, you're going to get me sacked. So you'll be happy. One day, you'll be happy here boys. You'll come in and say, 'Ah, fantastic - we've got another bloke we can terrorise.' Don't worry about it."

Puja

Eddie's persecution complex makes him the Donald Trump of rugby coaches.

[Oakboy]

Jones must be the most experienced international coach at failing so it's no surprise he gets stroppy when his performance/record is questioned.

[fivepointer]

Seemed like a perfectly reasonable question. He could simply have said that it was an important win and we will move on with a view to delivering a more complete performance.
He's under the pump and he knows it. But all coaches are, all of the time.
What will get him sacked is if England dont win games.

[Timbo]

Weeell...looking at his overall tenure it is a bit proposterous that England would consider sacking him any time soon. If we’re judging on results, he has won 25 tests from 31, two 6 Nations titles, a grand slam and a first series win in Australia ever. England have only won three 6 Nations in the last 15 years, and two of those have been under Jones.

I agree that some of the rugby hasn’t always been great to watch, and that because of the academy systems he has a better crop of players than previous coaches, but ultimately his record stands up for itself i’d say.