RugbyRebels

The last All Blacks team to lose at Eden Park (20-23 v France, 3 July 1994):

1 Olo Brown
2 Sean Fitzpatrick (c)
3 Richard Loe
4 Mark Cooksley
5 Ian Jones
6 Blair Larsen
7 Mike Brewer
8 Zinzan Brooke
9 Stu Forster
10 Stephen Bachop
11 Jonah Lomu
12 Matthew Cooper
13 Frank Bunce
14 John Kirwan
15 John Timu

16 Arran Pene

Interestingly, in the days of injury-only subsitutions, the French managed to get 4 sets of fresh legs onto the park as opposed to the All Blacks sole substitution.

The pack is a bit of a mix with a solid front row and a reasonable spine of I. Jones and Z. Brooke. Mark Cooksley was at the time the tallest ever All Black, since pipped by 1cm by Dominic Bird. He remains our heaviest ever lock. Despite his physical presence, he only gathered 11 caps over his 9 year career. Blair Larsen was a bit of a 5.5 and both he and Brewer were probably the beneficiaries of injuries to players who might otherwise have been preferred.

In the backs, there is a stark reminder of how fortunate we currently are with 3 test-quality halfbacks available. Lightweight Stu Forster's competition at the time consisted of Ant Strachan, Jon Preston and Graeme Bachop. the 1st 5/8, Graeme's brother Stephen, will never make anyone's All Time All Blacks' XV Ever, being basically a placeholder in the brief period between Grant Fox's retirement and Andrew Mehrtens' debut. Matt Cooper, a better fullback than 2nd 5/8 in my book, will also never make classic All Black's midfield. Outside him was all class though, with three true greats filling jerseys 11, 13 and 14. Timu could also have worn that label, had he not been jostling with the likes of Kirwan, Inga, Wilson, Lomu, Osborne etc, eventually opting to play league. The two test series against France was the only time the two legends Jonah Lomu (debuting at age 19) and John Kirwan (nearly 30 and 1 test series away from retirement) were capped together.

Yes, I remember that test well. Bit of a disaster for young Lomu, as I recall; and some predicted he was a "failed experiment" and would never play for the All Blacks again! It certainly would've been interesting to see him and Kirwan go head-to-head at provincial level, but I don't think that ever actually happened. Stephen Bachop played for Samoa first, though interestingly the family were half-Tahitian. The Mauger brothers were his nephews, of course. Forster and Timu were among a legion of Hawkes Bay players who migrated to the Otago province in the shamateur era, most of them to attend university but there were undoubtedly some "enticements" involvement. Timu ended up at fullback and appeared to have found his niche there, but then followed the exodus to league, where the enticements were even greater...

No matter what happens on Wednesday, no All Black will match the record for most defeats by the Lions, which stands at 3 and was set in the days when Lions tours to NZ were more frequent.

Colin Meads was first to that mark having played in the dead rubber 4th test loss in 1959, and the two losses in 1971.* Tane Norton, Sid Going and Ian Kirkpatrick each played in the 1971 losses and the sole loss in 1977. **

*Although, to his credit, between those losses he also played in every test in the 4-0 whitewash in 1966, ending with 7 wins, 3 losses and 1 draw in 11 tests against the Lions. No other player from any country has more than 8 caps against the Lions.
**Norton and Kirkpatrick played every test in both tours, for a 4-3-1 record. Super Sid’s test career ended with his replacement by Lyn Davis for the 3rd and 4th tests in 1977, leaving him with a 2-3-1 record (the worst for any All Black with 5 or more caps v Lions).

Those tours may become even less frequent too, if the idea of adding Argentina to the agenda continues to gain traction. There was an article in The Rugby Magazine about it recently. They'd like to see midweek fixtures against Uruguay, the South American Jaguars and the Super Rugby 'Jaguares' included. That would be quite something, but much of the atmosphere of a Lions tour is created by the mingling among the fans with a similar culture, languages and, in most cases, ethnicity. But these barries are there to be broken down, after all, and if the Lions tours are to continue, why not give Argentina their chance as well. So far the record stands at one game played, one game drawn. Incidentally, I think it's time the Lions played another test in Fiji as well. They lost an unofficial test there in 77, and could really ramp up interest in such a fixture by promoting it as a "revenge" match. Shame it wasn't included this year - the 40th anniversary of that shock in Suva . . .

The Lions have played Argentina 7 times for 6 wins one draw. The Lions only capped the 2005 home test, but Argentina has awarded caps for matches involving its national side during the 1910, 1927 and 1936 tours.

Right you are. They also played East Africa in Nairobi a couple of times and Sri Lanka (Ceylon) one time as well, all in the post-WWII era. & if I'm not mistaken they've had two or three unofficial encounters with France (losing once) while a Home Unions selection took a pasting from a Tri Nations/France selection during the IRB Centenary Celebration (89?) - when a Tri Nations XV also ran riot against a 5 Nations XV. I seem to recall Phillipe Sella starring in the former encounter, and Danie Gerber in the latter. So aside from the regular opponents and Fiji, the "Lions" have lost to France once and a Tri Nations/France selection once.

The last time the All Blacks lost 2 consecutive tests at home was 1998. Neither home ground involved is now in use. South Africa won at Athletic Park and Australia won at Jade Stadium during the 3N. These losses were the 2nd and 3rd in a run of 5 in a row (our 2nd worst run ever).

Wow, so they demolished the stadiums afterward? Sometimes I think the Kiwis take their rugby a tad too seriously.

Do they still sack the PM every time they fail to win a World Cup (it's been a while, I know) ?

Hansen is penciled in for a meeting with the firing squad on Sunday morning should things go awry on Saturday evening.

Some journos are comparing tomorrow’s match to a RWC final.

Of the All Blacks XXIII, only 7 have ever played for an All Blacks side that was not the reigning world champion. 17 of them have played RWC matches,13 have played a RWC final, all with a 100% winning record. That said, only 11/23 of the 2015 finalists are in the squad along with 2 others from the 2011 Final (4 played in both).

This is the squad with the year of debut and number of RWC caps:

1. Joe Moody 2014 (3)*
2. Codie Taylor 2015 (1)
3. Owen Franks 2009 (13)*/**
4. Brodie Retallick 2012 (6)*
5. Samuel Whitelock 2010 (4)*/**
6. Jerome Kaino 2006 (14)*/**/***
7. Sam Cane 2012 (7)
8. Kieran Read 2008 (11)*/**
9. Aaron Smith 2012 (6)*
10. Beauden Barrett 2012 (6)*
11. Julian Savea 2012 (6)*
12. Ngani Laumape 2017 (0)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown 2016 (0)
14. Israel Dagg 2010 (5)**
15. Jordie Barrett 2017 (0)

16. Nathan Harris 2014 (0)
17. Wyatt Crockett 2009 (5)
18. Charlie Faumuina 2012 (6)*
19. Scott Barrett 2016 (0)
20. Ardie Savea 2016 (0)
21. TJ Perenara 2014 (2)
22. Aaron Cruden 2010 (3)**
23. Malakai Fekitoa 2014 (2)

*RWC2015 finalist
**RWC2011 finalist
***Not selected for RWC2007

Super Champs:

Crusaders 7
Blues 3
Bulls 3
ACT 2
Chiefs 2
Reds 1
NSW 1
Otago 1
Hurricanes 1

Finals win/loss:

Crusaders 7/4
Chiefs 2/1
Hurricanes 1/2
Lions 0/1

Last title:

Hurricanes 2016
Chiefs 2013
Crusaders 2008
Lions N/A

Last final:

Hurricanes 2016
Lions 2016
Crusaders 2014
Chiefs 2013

SA has not won a Super Rugby title since 2010. Since then 5 new champs have been crowned, including 3 in the past 3 years. The Bulls are the only SA team to have won the championship. The Lions, Sharks & Stormers are the only Super Rugby foundation teams yet to win the title. NZ has won 14 titles (Crusaders claiming half of them), Australia 4 and SA 3. NZ teams won the first 5 Super Rugby titles, but have not won 3 in a row this century

JOHANNESBURG – Johan Ackermann’s wish of having a sold-out Ellis Park for his last game in charge of the Lions will come true on Saturday.

Ackermann will be in charge for the final time when his team host the seven-time champions, the Crusaders, at 4pm on Saturday, with the Super Rugby title on the line.

Next week, the popular Lions boss will head to Gloucester in England, where he will take up a position of head coach for the next three years.

His current assistant, Swys de Bruin, will take over the Lions hot seat.

The Lions confirmed on Monday afternoon that they’ll hit the 62 000-capacity mark on Saturday.

“It’s amazing... I’m so grateful to be in the final again,” said Ackermann after the Lions had downed the Hurricanes in last Saturday’s semi-final, the same team that beat them in the 2016 final, albeit in Wellington.

Only 32 000 fans turned up last Saturday to watch the match, a thriller which saw the Lions come back from being 22-3 down to win 44-29.

The previous week, in the quarter-final against the Sharks, 29 000 watched from the stands.

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/super- ... l-10566841

32000 sounds much more likely than the 40k you seemingly pulled out of yer erse for the other thread. Half full as I said.

It was actually the figure I heard during the commentary. Anyway, the main thing is the final is sell-out. That's going to be one helluva final. I'm almost glad the Canes lost (almost) . . .

South African ref for the final. Surely the ref should come from a neutral country.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:32000 sounds much more likely than the 40k you seemingly pulled out of yer erse for the other thread. Half full as I said.

So 32K, if that's the official figure, sounds paltry to you. But I just checked the attendance figures for the Pro 12 semis, both of which were held in Ireland, and they were 15K and 18K, - or basically half the size of the crowd at Ellis Park on Saturday. Moreover, the final, also held in Ireland, draw just over 40K. The final at Ellis Park is already a sell-out with over 60K tickets available.

Why on earth would you want to stage the sport's premier event on a tiny, rain-swept island that has a miserable record at the tournament and doesn't even get decent crowds along to major games? Worst idea ever!

rowan wrote:SA has not won a Super Rugby title since 2010. Since then 5 new champs have been crowned, including 3 in the past 3 years. The Bulls are the only SA team to have won the championship. The Lions, Sharks & Stormers are the only Super Rugby foundation teams yet to win the title. NZ has won 14 titles (Crusaders claiming half of them), Australia 4 and SA 3. NZ teams won the first 5 Super Rugby titles, but have not won 3 in a row this century

So the Crusaders move to 8 titles, which is more than half of NZ's share and more than Australian & SA teams combined. Bulls are still the only SA team to have won the title, and the Lions, Sharks & Stormers remain the only foundation teams yet to win it. NZ teams have won 3 championships in a row for the first time this century.

Most capped tier 1 XV

15. Chris Paterson – Scotland (109 caps)

14. Adam Ashley-Cooper – Australia (116 caps)

13. Brian O’Driscoll – Ireland (141 caps)

12. Ma’a Nonu – New Zealand (103 caps)

11. Bryan Habana – South Africa (124 caps)

10. Ronan O’Gara – Ireland (130 caps)

9. George Gregan – Australia (139 caps)

1. Gethin Jenkins – Wales (134 caps)

2. Kevin Mealamu – New Zealand (132 caps)

3. Martin Castrogiovani – Italy (119 caps)

4. Victor Matfield – South Africa (127 caps)

5. Alun Wyn Jones – Wales (119 caps)

6. George Smith – Australia (111 caps)

7. Richie McCaw – New Zealand (148 caps)

8. Sergio Parisse – Italy (126 caps)

https://www.ruck.co.uk/capped-rugby-xv- ... o-parisse/

My guess is - no - but I'm not sure.

Rugby Championship teams' all-time records against 6 Nations teams:

Team: NZL . SAF . Aus . Arg
v Eng 32-7 23-13 25-22 4-17
v Fra 44-12 25-11 27-18 14-34
v Wal 30-3 28-3 29-10 5-11
v Sco 28-0 21-5 21-10 9-7
v Ire 28-1 18-6 21-11 6-10
v Ita 13-0 12-1 17-0 15-5

Totals & winning averages

NZL 173 - 23 88%
SAF 129 - 39 77%
Aus 145 - 71 67%
Arg 53 - 85 38%

Combined totals:

RC 510 6N 218
RC winning average 70%

NB: Only Argentina has losing averages against any 6 Nations teams (all of them except Scotland & Italy).
NB: Scotland & Italy have never beaten NZ, and Italy has also never beaten Australia.

rowan wrote:Rugby Championship teams' all-time records against 6 Nations teams:

Team: NZL . SAF . Aus . Arg
v Eng 32-7 23-13 25-22 4-17
v Fra 44-12 25-11 27-18 14-34
v Wal 30-3 28-3 29-10 5-11
v Sco 28-0 21-5 21-10 9-7
v Ire 28-1 18-6 21-11 6-10
v Ita 13-0 12-1 17-0 15-5

Totals & winning averages

NZL 173 - 23 88%
SAF 129 - 39 77%
Aus 145 - 71 67%
Arg 53 - 85 38%

Combined totals:

RC 510 6N 218
RC winning average 70%

NB: Only Argentina has losing averages against any 6 Nations teams (all of them except Scotland & Italy).
NB: Scotland & Italy have never beaten NZ, and Italy has also never beaten Australia.

6 Nations teams v Rugby Championship teams:

Team Wins Losses Average
England 59-84 41%
France 75-110 40.5%
Wales 27-92 32%
Scotland 22-79 21.7%
Ireland 28-73 27.7%
Italy 6-57 9.5%

Pro14
No T2/3 players at Dragons, Munster, Scarlets, Kings, Ulster, .

Canada:
Jeff Hassler (Ospreys)

Fiji:
Michael Tagicakibau (Treviso)
Naulia Dawai (Connacht)
Viliame Mata (Edinburgh)
Isa Nacewa (Leinster)

Georgia:
Anton Peikrishvili (Blues)

Moldova:
Dimitri Arhip (Ospreys)

Namibia:
Torsten van Jaarsveld (Cheetahs)
Aranos Coetzee (Cheetahs)
Anton Bresler (Edinburgh)

Samoa:
Rey Lee-lo (Blues)
Kieron Fonotia (Ospreys)
Failaga Afamasaga (Zebre)

Tonga:
Tau Filise (Blues)
Siua Halanukonuka (Glasgow)
Ma'afu Fia (Ospreys)

U.S.:
Blaine Scully (Blues)
Greg Peterson (Glasgow)

Total: 18

Average per side:
Welsh sides: 2
Scottish sides: 2
Italian sides: 1
South African sides: 1
Irish sides: 0.5

Ospreys and Blues are tied for the most T2/3 players with 4 each.

Most pundits seem to be thinking the All Blacks will extend their unbeaten stretch against the Wallabies to 6 tomorrow. Even a Bledisloe clean sweep this year won’t match the record though. All Black’s longest winning streaks v Aussie:

10 (2008-2010)*
9 (1936-1947)
7 (1967-1974)
7 (1995-1997)
5 (2005-2006)
5* (2015- )

The longest undefeated run was 11, the 1967-74 fun above was ended by a draw which was followed by 3 more wins through to 1978.

The Wallabies have never won more than 3 on the trot v NZ.

Is that the 3rd time in a row South Africa have won by the same score?

Oh, just checked. Their last 4 results have been 37-15, 35-12, 37-15, 37-14. Freaky