I can't remember a Lions tour with this many razor thin calls across much of the team tbh.Sandydragon wrote:It’s basically a very tight call and I agree that you could have a number of permutations which are all equally good. Just depends what attributes Gatland and co want.Big D wrote:I think the back 3 can almost be any of the guys without too much arguement.
Lions squad named
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Re: Lions squad named
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Re: Lions squad named
Across the pack and in the back 3, I’m really relaxed by whoever gets picked. I think Itoje is the standout performer but no one else is so dominant that they deserve their place.
Half backs and centres is a bit easier to call.
Half backs and centres is a bit easier to call.
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Re: Lions squad named
Really? I haven’t seen anything close to agreement on the centres except for “possibly Faz at 12 but not because I want to.”
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Re: Lions squad named
I’d suggest it’s two from Henshaw, Aki and Harris no one has really stood above the rest, I would argue that Daly for example has played himself out of contention.Mikey Brown wrote:Really? I haven’t seen anything close to agreement on the centres except for “possibly Faz at 12 but not because I want to.”
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Re: Lions squad named
Frankly I don't see how we could happily do a 6:2 split without having a 10 on the bench who has played elsewhere internationally; as far as I can tell that's Farrell, and I don't want him in the squad tbh...though I think Hogg might have played 10 in extremis. I can't see a 6:2 split where the benefits outweigh the downsides. But I may have missed somethingSandydragon wrote:I’m not normally in favour of a 6:2 split. But the reality is that I feel our greatest impact is in our pack with Simmonds and Watson coming on the up the pace.Banquo wrote:You are buggered if any outside back is hurt with that bench. Starting XV looks right, though Harris at 13 is a concern tbh- I’d maybe start H Watson thoSandydragon wrote:The number of pundits selecting on past glories is staggering. Both Farrell and Murray have been well below par yet they make test teams. The best half back combination is Price and Biggar. Smith is definitely one for the future.
Our back three is a huge area of contention as no one has been perfect but there have been some great performances. Adams is a fine all round player who finishes well. VDM has been a real star of the tour but does have some weaknesses. High and Liam Williams have both been good. Watson is a quality player.
If all fit I think it will be Adam’s, Williams and Watson. But I wonder if the idea of VDM being involved is just too tempting, even if off the bench.
Harris has surely done enough to get a centre spot and Henshaw would be the other I’d go for. Daly has a great boot and some nice touches but he gets bypassed in defence too often.
The front row I would go for Wyn Jones, George and Furlogh. Replacement double be Mako, Owens and Sinkler.
Second row has to include Itoje. Do we risk AWJ in there so soon back? We need a tour captain who can actually lead and we lacked some leadership against the Bokke A side. Equally the starting locks yesterday both made a strong case. I liked the way Beard took the driving maul away from the Bokke A when he came on and that’s a big plus.
I’m going for AWJ and Itoje with Beard on the bench. I was even tempted by Itoje at blindside but restrained myself from that call.
Back row is a really hard call. Faletau has started to come good and offers a lot of experience. Simmonds offers a lot of the bench.
Curry had a good game against the A side. Watson has been strong throughout. Beirne has had his moments too, or does Gatland move Curry to blindside and go for a mobile back row?
I think that we might see a 6/2 split on the bench, unless Gatland wants VDM on the bench. I suspect Davies plus Farrell the latter covering a lot of positions. Unles he decides to have a punt on Smith on the bench, and take a slight gamble if a Center gets injured.
Aside from the obvious front row replacements, I think we might have Simmonds, Watson and a lock on the bench.
Given the obvious brutality to come, I think Gatland will want to front up to that and keep a strong forward element on the bench. So, I’m going for:
Wyn Jones
George
Furlough
AWJ
Itoje
Beirne
Curry
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Liam Williams
Vunipola
Owens
Sinkler
Beard
Watson
Simmonds
Davies
Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
That leaves the issue of having Farrell to cover the back line which isn’t ideal either.
Arguably you could go for a back row of Watson, Curry and Faletau, with Simmonds off the bench. Then have Davies Smith and eithr VDM or Aki on the bench for some last quarter impact.

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Re: Lions squad named
I'd think its worth pondering who best to shut Kolbe down, though that's also about better kicking and chasing.Big D wrote:I think the back 3 can almost be any of the guys without too much arguement.
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Re: Lions squad named
MY XV (Gats and Co wont pick it though) + Bench
Jones
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Bierne
Curry
Conan
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Williams
LCD
Vunipola
Sinckler
Lawes
Faletau
Davies
Smith
Daly
Jones
George
Furlong
Itoje
Beard
Bierne
Curry
Conan
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Williams
LCD
Vunipola
Sinckler
Lawes
Faletau
Davies
Smith
Daly
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Re: Lions squad named
There isn't a huge amount of difference across the wingers when it comes to defence. And the best way to shut down Kolbe really is to stop him getting the ball. The criticism of DVDM isn't backed up by any stats. And LRZ is probably the worst defender of them all but I think a lot of that is positioning where his pace would have bailed him out in the past.Banquo wrote:I'd think its worth pondering who best to shut Kolbe down, though that's also about better kicking and chasing.Big D wrote:I think the back 3 can almost be any of the guys without too much arguement.
I've went with Watson, Williams and Hogg because I think SA will kick a lot and those three provide the best options to combat that. Williams and Watson are the best aerial guys of the wingers available and Hogg has the boot to return wasteful kicks with interest.
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Re: Lions squad named
Tandy confirms all on track bar Finn.
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Re: Lions squad named
https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/n ... uth-africa
skysports.com wrote: Georgia coach on ventilator with Covid-19 in South Africa
South Africa’s second Test match against Georgia in Johannesburg on Friday was cancelled because of Covid-19 infections in both camps.
The Georgia Rugby Union says its national team coach has serious lung damage from Covid-19 and has been put on a ventilator in hospital in South Africa.
Levan Maisashvili was one of six members of the Georgian touring party to test positive for the virus after playing against South Africa on July 2 in Pretoria as part of a series organised to help the world champion Springboks prepare for the British and Irish Lions tour.
article continues...
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Re: Lions squad named
I'd disagree with the first sentence (their agilities are all pretty different, and that's what you need v Kolbe, alongside good positioning; and whilst I don't see what some have said on DVM, he is not light on his feet), but even if I agreed its still a consideration as 'stop him getting ball' is probably kinda moot. But as I said we should not kick to him unless we've got much kick/chase in place.Big D wrote:There isn't a huge amount of difference across the wingers when it comes to defence. And the best way to shut down Kolbe really is to stop him getting the ball. The criticism of DVDM isn't backed up by any stats. And LRZ is probably the worst defender of them all but I think a lot of that is positioning where his pace would have bailed him out in the past.Banquo wrote:I'd think its worth pondering who best to shut Kolbe down, though that's also about better kicking and chasing.Big D wrote:I think the back 3 can almost be any of the guys without too much arguement.
I've went with Watson, Williams and Hogg because I think SA will kick a lot and those three provide the best options to combat that. Williams and Watson are the best aerial guys of the wingers available and Hogg has the boot to return wasteful kicks with interest.
I like your back three, that said, though Adams had been outstanding until he wasn't

Last edited by Banquo on Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lions squad named
Damn, I think lack of Finn means it more likely he'll go 6:2 with Faz involved.Big D wrote:Tandy confirms all on track bar Finn.
- Sandydragon
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Re: Lions squad named
Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.Banquo wrote:I'd think its worth pondering who best to shut Kolbe down, though that's also about better kicking and chasing.Big D wrote:I think the back 3 can almost be any of the guys without too much arguement.
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Re: Lions squad named
Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
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Re: Lions squad named
......hence 'better kicking and chasing'...Sandydragon wrote:Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.Banquo wrote:I'd think its worth pondering who best to shut Kolbe down, though that's also about better kicking and chasing.Big D wrote:I think the back 3 can almost be any of the guys without too much arguement.
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Re: Lions squad named
they all fckd up. But he's done it to dare I say better players as well.whatisthejava wrote:Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
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Re: Lions squad named
TBH, I think the winger best suited to defend Kolbe isn't even on the tour - May's got the pace, experience, agility, and workrate to do as good a job as anyone possibly could shutting down the Jonah Lomu Rugby cheat code that is Kolbe, but instead Gatland went for the shiny new thing in Rees-Zammit (and Daly for some unknown reason).whatisthejava wrote:Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
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Re: Lions squad named
Yeah May’s omission still seems a shame.
I actually liked Daly defensively as a winger, he just seemed to get it positionally in a way I’ve never seen him do in other positions. Sadly he now seems to play 9, 12, 13, fullback, basically anywhere but wing.
I felt like the inside defence was more the issue with Harris’s miss than LRZ. You can see him trying to signal his inside defenders to cover across as he knows he’s simply got too much space either side to defend a guy like Kolbe. It just didn’t seem like anyone was on the same wavelength with the decision to fling the ball out to Daly, then awful execution of the kick.
I actually liked Daly defensively as a winger, he just seemed to get it positionally in a way I’ve never seen him do in other positions. Sadly he now seems to play 9, 12, 13, fullback, basically anywhere but wing.
I felt like the inside defence was more the issue with Harris’s miss than LRZ. You can see him trying to signal his inside defenders to cover across as he knows he’s simply got too much space either side to defend a guy like Kolbe. It just didn’t seem like anyone was on the same wavelength with the decision to fling the ball out to Daly, then awful execution of the kick.
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Re: Lions squad named
I don’t think Zammit is near test selection, barring a sackfulwhatisthejava wrote:Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
Of injuries. An exciting player but one for the next tour I think. It’s clear that he’s too inexperienced for this level at the moment.
Daly keeps being talked up as a test starter. He deserves to get it in the neck I agree.
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Re: Lions squad named
Not sure why Daly was included (other than as an all rounder) but LRZ was one of the finds of the six nations and played well enough to put his hand up for selection. May was one of the better England players over the campaign so is perhaps a bit unfortunate and would have beeen a better choice than Daly.Puja wrote:TBH, I think the winger best suited to defend Kolbe isn't even on the tour - May's got the pace, experience, agility, and workrate to do as good a job as anyone possibly could shutting down the Jonah Lomu Rugby cheat code that is Kolbe, but instead Gatland went for the shiny new thing in Rees-Zammit (and Daly for some unknown reason).whatisthejava wrote:Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
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Re: Lions squad named
Rees-Zammitt was covering the man on the outside, if he had come in he would have been criticised for coming off his wing, in this scenario you have to trust your inside defence which is what he did, for the record I don't think any 13 in the world would have got to him so not really a reflection on Harris.whatisthejava wrote:Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
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Re: Lions squad named
Daly was picked for his versatility and he's stepped up on this tour from his abysmal 6 Nations form, he still doesn't look at his best but he's been playing well at 13 which is his best position imo from what I saw of him when he was at Wasps.Sandydragon wrote:Not sure why Daly was included (other than as an all rounder) but LRZ was one of the finds of the six nations and played well enough to put his hand up for selection. May was one of the better England players over the campaign so is perhaps a bit unfortunate and would have beeen a better choice than Daly.Puja wrote:TBH, I think the winger best suited to defend Kolbe isn't even on the tour - May's got the pace, experience, agility, and workrate to do as good a job as anyone possibly could shutting down the Jonah Lomu Rugby cheat code that is Kolbe, but instead Gatland went for the shiny new thing in Rees-Zammit (and Daly for some unknown reason).whatisthejava wrote:
Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neck
Puja
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Re: Lions squad named
While it is very much a judgement call and it is perfectly valid to be in favour of LRZ for the reason you submit of his form in the 6N, I'd say the crux of my argument is around the word "find". While he's got phenomenal ability and speed, he's massively inexperienced and hasn't got the nuts and bolts that will come with him being asked, "Yeah, you've got talent and wheels. What else have you got?" over the span of his career. More pertinently, he was never going to be picked by Gatland for the tests barring a massive run of injuries - he's just too callow and it'd be a massive, massive risk.Sandydragon wrote:Not sure why Daly was included (other than as an all rounder) but LRZ was one of the finds of the six nations and played well enough to put his hand up for selection. May was one of the better England players over the campaign so is perhaps a bit unfortunate and would have beeen a better choice than Daly.Puja wrote:TBH, I think the winger best suited to defend Kolbe isn't even on the tour - May's got the pace, experience, agility, and workrate to do as good a job as anyone possibly could shutting down the Jonah Lomu Rugby cheat code that is Kolbe, but instead Gatland went for the shiny new thing in Rees-Zammit (and Daly for some unknown reason).whatisthejava wrote:
Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neck
Puja
This is compared to May who has been one of the best wingers in the world for the past 3-4 seasons and has changed out of sight from when he was a callow 20 year old who had nothing but pace and brio. I'd have absolutely no problem with dropping May in on the wing against any team in the world - I'd be excited by LRZ, but also worried about the risk.
II mean, I'd've picked both May and LRZ and left out Daly myself, but the dichotomy that was presented in the press and publicity was that there was only room for one speedster and it was either May or Rees-Zammit and instead of a potential starter, we've got a tourist who's the one option we know won't play in the tests. But your mileage may vary, as with all rugby opinions.
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Re: Lions squad named
Daly hasn't played wing yet, has he? Must admit I've not really paid too much attention so far! In any sort of form he's a very good choice for the sort of utility back that always seems to get called up for the Lions. I note he's named as a centre in the squad announcement, but I've seen nothing to suggest his defence at 13 has become better.Puja wrote:TBH, I think the winger best suited to defend Kolbe isn't even on the tour - May's got the pace, experience, agility, and workrate to do as good a job as anyone possibly could shutting down the Jonah Lomu Rugby cheat code that is Kolbe, but instead Gatland went for the shiny new thing in Rees-Zammit (and Daly for some unknown reason).whatisthejava wrote:Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
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Re: Lions squad named
From my Irish bias - Keith Earls look very good in the 6N, and at 33 is still the fastest man in the Ireland team. Still the arch try poacher who danced around Jonny May with ease in the last England game. Earls is on the smallish side but he is a powerful defender, frequently knocking bigger men backwards. Quite an underrated and non-flashy wing who could probably do as good a job as any in policing Kolbe while himself a potent finisher.Puja wrote:TBH, I think the winger best suited to defend Kolbe isn't even on the tour - May's got the pace, experience, agility, and workrate to do as good a job as anyone possibly could shutting down the Jonah Lomu Rugby cheat code that is Kolbe, but instead Gatland went for the shiny new thing in Rees-Zammit (and Daly for some unknown reason).whatisthejava wrote:Interesting that both Zammit who was positioned incorrectly and Daly who did the stupid kick both escaped critism but Harris who had to actually try and tackle Kolbe one on one in space got it in the neckSandydragon wrote: Don’t kick him the fricking ball in acres of space would be a start.
Puja
Still - agree that Jonny May is a great wing with the X factor who scores tries that no-one else can. Sad he never got a Lions tour.