Borthwick’s England 2.0

[Danno]

And the curse of (playing for) Gloucester continues.

[Which Tyler]

On Alfie Barbeary: “I rate Alfie very highly. I have said that to him. We met a few weeks ago in a health-food café in Bath. We had a good chat. I spoke to him yesterday and we have been in regular contact. Is the disciplinary hearing a factor? Yes, there’s no doubt about it because I want certainty. Do I think he’s going to feature in an England team in the near future? Yes.”

They may have met at a health-food café - bet that's not where they ate though.

[Mellsblue]

All I’m taking from this is that Sinckler needs to work on his kick chase.

You’re not inspired by the list of new captaincy candidates that Farrell has brought through?

That goes without saying, test match progression planning and implementation.

[Oakboy]

Club - Forwards/ Backs

Bath 3 / 2
Bristol 1 /
Exeter 1 / 2
Gloucester
Harlequins 3 / 3
Leicester 3 / 1
Newcastle
Northampton 2 / 5
Sale 2 / 2
Saracens 5 / 1

The top three in the Prem providing 18 of the 36 players. Impressive rewarding of form.

Puja

I wonder if they are the three clubs that kick the least. Wishful thinking, probably.

[FKAS]

Genge
George
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt
Mitchell
MSmith
Beard
Dingwall
Lawrence
Freeman
Steward

Dan, Marler, Heyes, Coles, CCS, Care, FSmith, Furbank

There are some holes in the squad that worry me. I think we're going to see a lock at 6, despite the lack of locks in the squad. And I think we're going to see Daly in the XV. The above is my attempt at putting out a decent team, but it's imbalanced, imo.

Not sure I'd have Ben Curry in there personally. Think Silly Balloons will go for Roots or CCS at 6 to provide more physicality and a lineout option. Can't see Earl being left out either.

Beard on the wing is an odd call. One start on the wing in the PRC in the last season and a half makes that unlikely. Roebuck feels more likely, especially given his ability on the kick chase.

[FKAS]

Some quotes from the big Simone Beauvoir (nicked from the Telegraph liveblog):

On Alfie Barbeary: “I rate Alfie very highly. I have said that to him. We met a few weeks ago in a health-food café in Bath. We had a good chat. I spoke to him yesterday and we have been in regular contact. Is the disciplinary hearing a factor? Yes, there’s no doubt about it because I want certainty. Do I think he’s going to feature in an England team in the near future? Yes.”

On other potential captaincy options: “There are a good number of names. In the past, England did not necessarily have the leaders but, over the past 12 months, under Owen, this has been a group who have brought themselves together. Genge, Marler, Itoje, Care, Sladey... the list goes on. But Jamie is the outstanding one for this team right now.”

On omissions of Kyle Sinkler and Billy Vunipola: “I spoke to both players regularly about what I’d like to see develop in their games to be in the squad. But it’s so competitive. Will Stuart has been excellent for Bath; Joe Heyes has shown a real development in his game this season; and Dan Cole – it’s important to recognise his impact.

“This time last year, England’s scrum was ranked 10th in the world and it’s now a good number of places higher. He has influenced that. I’m pretty sure Kyle will be in the squad in the future. I sensed determination from him to work on the areas we discussed.”

On the need for the squad to match his style of play: “The need to evolve and move forward is constantly there, but we have to make sure the foundations are strong. We made progress in that regard last year and around half of the players in the World Cup squad are in this squad, we have a real good mix. I’m really excited about bringing that mix of players together.”

On talking Immanuel Feyi-Waboso in playing for England over Wales: “Manny and I spoke some weeks ago and we have been in regular contact with him and Rob Baxter, who has been excellent. Manny has really impressed us, not just on the pitch, but he’s a real mature guy, restarting from a rugby and studies perspective after what happened with Wasps and arriving in Exeter.

“He did not take much persuading. When I rang him, he said he’d just finished his university studies for the day. I told him I was naming him in my squad and I could sense that excitement and buzz down the phone. I could sense he was thrilled. That gave me energy.”

Puja

All I’m taking from this is that Sinckler needs to work on his kick chase.

More like he's not doing enough to mitigate the fact his scrum work has fallen away in recent years.

[Oakboy]

I would be surprised if SB has recalled Spencer to not have him in the 23 - unless he is planning on club 9/10 combinations, I suppose.

[Mikey Brown]

Genge
George
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Curry
Underhill
Dombrandt
Mitchell
MSmith
Beard
Dingwall
Lawrence
Freeman
Steward

Dan, Marler, Heyes, Coles, CCS, Care, FSmith, Furbank

There are some holes in the squad that worry me. I think we're going to see a lock at 6, despite the lack of locks in the squad. And I think we're going to see Daly in the XV. The above is my attempt at putting out a decent team, but it's imbalanced, imo.

Not sure I'd have Ben Curry in there personally. Think Silly Balloons will go for Roots or CCS at 6 to provide more physicality and a lineout option. Can't see Earl being left out either.

Beard on the wing is an odd call. One start on the wing in the PRC in the last season and a half makes that unlikely. Roebuck feels more likely, especially given his ability on the kick chase.

I haven’t looked at the stats but I’m surprised Beard has been used so exclusively at centre. I still think of him as a wing primarily to be honest.

He’s really come on a lot recently but I was not expecting to see him in an England squad. I wonder how much him and CCS are getting the old apprentice treatment?

Wing is a tough one with this squad. You’re right that Roebuck is fantastic on the chase and in the air, which is why he would be my starting 8.

[p/d]

Some quotes from the big Simone Beauvoir (nicked from the Telegraph liveblog):



On other potential captaincy options: “There are a good number of names. In the past, England did not necessarily have the leaders but, over the past 12 months, under Owen, this has been a group who have brought themselves together. Genge, Marler, Itoje, Care, Sladey... the list goes on. But Jamie is the outstanding one for this team right now.”


Puja

...and I die a little bit more inside

[p/d]

I could sense that excitement and buzz down the phone”

Puja

Ah yes! That's a trip down memory lane

[Banquo]

Jeeeez the front-row cupboard is bare. Dan Cole is gonna sue for abuse of the elderly at this rate.

I had hoped for Painter in the first few weeks of the season, but he seems to've fallen down the pecking order at Exeter.

Is Sinckler crocked? No Barbeary?

What's Sinckler done to warrant being selected? Cole's 95 years old, but at least he, Stuart, and Sinckler have been doing okay in the Prem.

Not sure if Barbeary is about his workrate levels or if Stoic Barista knows something about his citing, like he's planning on pleading guilty.

Puja

So Sincklers been doing ok in the prem but has done nothing to warrant selection . I assume you mis spoke there! I wasn’t saying pick him, just asked if he’s injured as one reason for non selection.

[Banquo]

LP: Genge, Marler, Obano
HK: Cowan-Dickie, Dan, George
TP: Cole, Heyes, Stuart
LK: Chessum, Coles Isiekwe, Itoje
FL: Curry, Earl, Pearson, Roots, Underhill
N8: Cunningham-South, Dombrandt

SH: Care, Mitchell, Spencer
FH: Ford, F. Smith, M. Smith
IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade
WG: Daly, Feyi-Waboso, Freeman, Roebuck
FB: Furbank, Steward

So our debate on Dingwall made not a lot of difference, a good use of my time

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I'd say it should be laid out like this.

IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade, Daly, Freeman

[Puja]

Jeeeez the front-row cupboard is bare. Dan Cole is gonna sue for abuse of the elderly at this rate.

I had hoped for Painter in the first few weeks of the season, but he seems to've fallen down the pecking order at Exeter.

Is Sinckler crocked? No Barbeary?

What's Sinckler done to warrant being selected? Cole's 95 years old, but at least he, Stuart, and Sinckler have been doing okay in the Prem.

Not sure if Barbeary is about his workrate levels or if Stoic Barista knows something about his citing, like he's planning on pleading guilty.

Puja

So Sincklers been doing ok in the prem but has done nothing to warrant selection . I assume you mis spoke there! I wasn’t saying pick him, just asked if he’s injured as one reason for non selection.

Shows how much brain power I have today! I meant to say Heyes there.

Puja

[Banquo]

I had hoped for Painter in the first few weeks of the season, but he seems to've fallen down the pecking order at Exeter.



What's Sinckler done to warrant being selected? Cole's 95 years old, but at least he, Stuart, and Sinckler have been doing okay in the Prem.

Not sure if Barbeary is about his workrate levels or if Stoic Barista knows something about his citing, like he's planning on pleading guilty.

Puja

So Sincklers been doing ok in the prem but has done nothing to warrant selection . I assume you mis spoke there! I wasn’t saying pick him, just asked if he’s injured as one reason for non selection.

Shows how much brain power I have today! I meant to say Heyes there.

Puja

Yup!!

[Banquo]

Yeah I'd say it should be laid out like this.

IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade, Daly, Freeman

[Puja]

Yeah I'd say it should be laid out like this.

IC: Steward
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade, Daly, Freeman

FTFY

[Banquo]

No idea about starting line up. I’d suggest Daly has been picked as a wing though. Given there are at least 6 other 13’s including Earl.

[Mellsblue]

Some quotes from the big Simone Beauvoir (nicked from the Telegraph liveblog):

On Alfie Barbeary: “I rate Alfie very highly. I have said that to him. We met a few weeks ago in a health-food café in Bath. We had a good chat. I spoke to him yesterday and we have been in regular contact. Is the disciplinary hearing a factor? Yes, there’s no doubt about it because I want certainty. Do I think he’s going to feature in an England team in the near future? Yes.”

On other potential captaincy options: “There are a good number of names. In the past, England did not necessarily have the leaders but, over the past 12 months, under Owen, this has been a group who have brought themselves together. Genge, Marler, Itoje, Care, Sladey... the list goes on. But Jamie is the outstanding one for this team right now.”

On omissions of Kyle Sinkler and Billy Vunipola: “I spoke to both players regularly about what I’d like to see develop in their games to be in the squad. But it’s so competitive. Will Stuart has been excellent for Bath; Joe Heyes has shown a real development in his game this season; and Dan Cole – it’s important to recognise his impact.

“This time last year, England’s scrum was ranked 10th in the world and it’s now a good number of places higher. He has influenced that. I’m pretty sure Kyle will be in the squad in the future. I sensed determination from him to work on the areas we discussed.”

On the need for the squad to match his style of play: “The need to evolve and move forward is constantly there, but we have to make sure the foundations are strong. We made progress in that regard last year and around half of the players in the World Cup squad are in this squad, we have a real good mix. I’m really excited about bringing that mix of players together.”

On talking Immanuel Feyi-Waboso in playing for England over Wales: “Manny and I spoke some weeks ago and we have been in regular contact with him and Rob Baxter, who has been excellent. Manny has really impressed us, not just on the pitch, but he’s a real mature guy, restarting from a rugby and studies perspective after what happened with Wasps and arriving in Exeter.

“He did not take much persuading. When I rang him, he said he’d just finished his university studies for the day. I told him I was naming him in my squad and I could sense that excitement and buzz down the phone. I could sense he was thrilled. That gave me energy.”

Puja

All I’m taking from this is that Sinckler needs to work on his kick chase.

More like he's not doing enough to mitigate the fact his scrum work has fallen away in recent years.

Hard disagree. It’s clearly his kick chase and kicking out of hand that are the issue.

[Which Tyler]

Yeah I'd say it should be laid out like this.

IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade, Daly, Freeman

[Puja]

Yeah I'd say it should be laid out like this.

IC: N/A
OC: Beard, Dingwall, Lawrence, Slade, Daly, Freeman

The forum merrily burning in the background of the gif.

Puja

[TheDasher]

Interesting that there's no Joe Cokanasiga in the squad. Glad about it though - he has been given so many chances on the basis of his physical frame and early promise and hasn't repaid the faith.

Puja

I know what you mean but I'm not sure he really has - he's so clearly a confidence player and he hasn't had a decent run of games for England, due to rotation, injury etc. When he's fit and high on confidence, he's pretty formidable. Against Wales in the WC warm-up he was very poor, but you could see he was trying too hard, running at multiple defenders etc - I think he's better than that.

Having said that, the England backline obviously won't play like Bath's so perhaps it's a mute point, he wouldn't get the ball anyway.

[Oakboy]

Interesting that there's no Joe Cokanasiga in the squad. Glad about it though - he has been given so many chances on the basis of his physical frame and early promise and hasn't repaid the faith.

Puja

I know what you mean but I'm not sure he really has - he's so clearly a confidence player and he hasn't had a decent run of games for England, due to rotation, injury etc. When he's fit and high on confidence, he's pretty formidable. Against Wales in the WC warm-up he was very poor, but you could see he was trying too hard, running at multiple defenders etc - I think he's better than that.

Having said that, the England backline obviously won't play like Bath's so perhaps it's a mute point, he wouldn't get the ball anyway.

I think whoever ends up on the wing will not get many chances. They will need to make the absolute most of them. Unfortunately, Coka's hands are just not good enough for that. It's a shame because his other obvious attributes remain. I can't think of who from those picked he could claim to ever be ahead of.

[Banquo]

Interesting that there's no Joe Cokanasiga in the squad. Glad about it though - he has been given so many chances on the basis of his physical frame and early promise and hasn't repaid the faith.

Puja

I know what you mean but I'm not sure he really has - he's so clearly a confidence player and he hasn't had a decent run of games for England, due to rotation, injury etc. When he's fit and high on confidence, he's pretty formidable. Against Wales in the WC warm-up he was very poor, but you could see he was trying too hard, running at multiple defenders etc - I think he's better than that.

Having said that, the England backline obviously won't play like Bath's so perhaps it's a mute point, he wouldn't get the ball anyway.

12 caps I make it, 9 starts.....12 tries. 2 knee injuries and the business with his dad. I'm not sure he's been given so many genuine chances (4 were RWC warm up games in 2019, didn't play in RWC and was carrying a knee injury into that), and pretty intermittent in any case, and none since autumn 2022.

[Banquo]

BTW, no hand wringing over Malins I see?