Team news for Ireland.

[Mellsblue]

Funny, I'd say Launch is a consistent 8-9, whereas Kruis is the one who occasionally disappears from a game entirely.

Totally agree.

I also think that when it comes to leadership and thinking on his feet, Launchbury is our best lock: right place, right time, right decision.

What is disappointing is that Itoje's leadership qualities have not moved on from his 'favourite hooligan' status. As a 100% starter and nearly always doing the full 80, he should be captain by now. In a twisted logic kind of way, leaving Kruis out might have a fair long-term affect on the team should Itoje take more responsibility rather than supporting his club team-mate. In the DT this morning, I read that, according to Jones, Farrell did his wonderful leadership bit before they got on to the pitch. Maybe that's the answer, let Farrell mouth off in training but find a forward to be captain on the pitch.

Now we’ve moved past the Farrell babysitting Ford are we really moving on to Itoje babysitting Kruis?!?!?

[Oakboy]

Funny, I'd say Launch is a consistent 8-9, whereas Kruis is the one who occasionally disappears from a game entirely.

Totally agree.

I also think that when it comes to leadership and thinking on his feet, Launchbury is our best lock: right place, right time, right decision.

What is disappointing is that Itoje's leadership qualities have not moved on from his 'favourite hooligan' status. As a 100% starter and nearly always doing the full 80, he should be captain by now. In a twisted logic kind of way, leaving Kruis out might have a fair long-term affect on the team should Itoje take more responsibility rather than supporting his club team-mate. In the DT this morning, I read that, according to Jones, Farrell did his wonderful leadership bit before they got on to the pitch. Maybe that's the answer, let Farrell mouth off in training but find a forward to be captain on the pitch.

Now we’ve moved past the Farrell babysitting Ford are we really moving on to Itoje babysitting Kruis?!?!?

Other way round? I just want a forward captain.

[fivepointer]

Forget it, the Ice Man is a fixture.

[Mellsblue]

Totally agree.

I also think that when it comes to leadership and thinking on his feet, Launchbury is our best lock: right place, right time, right decision.

What is disappointing is that Itoje's leadership qualities have not moved on from his 'favourite hooligan' status. As a 100% starter and nearly always doing the full 80, he should be captain by now. In a twisted logic kind of way, leaving Kruis out might have a fair long-term affect on the team should Itoje take more responsibility rather than supporting his club team-mate. In the DT this morning, I read that, according to Jones, Farrell did his wonderful leadership bit before they got on to the pitch. Maybe that's the answer, let Farrell mouth off in training but find a forward to be captain on the pitch.

Now we’ve moved past the Farrell babysitting Ford are we really moving on to Itoje babysitting Kruis?!?!?

Other way round? I just want a forward captain.

Can’t you just use the logic that Farrell, whilst a natural leader off the pitch, is a poor communicator with the ref, struggles to think bigger picture with tactics and already has enough on his plate with kicking and being a key playmaker, whilst Itoje has successfully captained both Eng u20s and Saracens Storm, is eloquent with the media and is now indisputably a world class player.

[Mellsblue]

Forget it, the Ice Man is a fixture.

Climate Change denier.

[Oakboy]

Now we’ve moved past the Farrell babysitting Ford are we really moving on to Itoje babysitting Kruis?!?!?

Other way round? I just want a forward captain.

Can’t you just use the logic that Farrell, whilst a natural leader off the pitch, is a poor communicator with the ref, struggles to think bigger picture with tactics and already has enough on his plate with kicking and being a key playmaker, whilst Itoje has successfully captained both Eng u20s and Saracens Storm, is eloquent with the media and is now indisputably a world class player.

You could put it like that!!!

[jngf]

On a different tack, I thought Launchbury looked good when he came on especially in the mauls. He’s our one lock with substantial physical presence and playing him behind the tighthead and coupling him with either Itoje or Lawes gives us a balanced second row. For me neither Kruis or Ewels have that same physical presence or on the other hand the athleticism of Itoje or Lawes to be in the starting XV.

Would you pick Willemse if he was available for England? Just out of curiosity.

I certainly would have him on the bench with Launchbury at 4 and one of Itoje or Lawes at 5.

[Mikey Brown]

Goode on the rugby pod was saying how impressed he was listening to the ref link with Farrell’s chat with the ref, particularly in contrast to Sexton, which is something positive.

I mean he routinely spaffs his pants over the simplest of things that Farrell does, but he did acknowledge he’s not been great at it in the past. So maybe he’s learning. Thank god we can provide this wonderful learning environment for Owen.

[Digby]

On a different tack, I thought Launchbury looked good when he came on especially in the mauls. He’s our one lock with substantial physical presence and playing him behind the tighthead and coupling him with either Itoje or Lawes gives us a balanced second row. For me neither Kruis or Ewels have that same physical presence or on the other hand the athleticism of Itoje or Lawes to be in the starting XV.

Would you pick Willemse if he was available for England? Just out of curiosity.

I certainly would have him on the bench with Launchbury at 4 and one of Itoje or Lawes at 5.

At this point in time I wouldn't drop any of Itoje, Launch, Snooze or Lawes for Willemse, I probably would for Ewels but you could stick with Ewels given he's a couple of years younger

[Danno]

Goode on the rugby pod was saying how impressed he was listening to the ref link with Farrell’s chat with the ref, particularly in contrast to Sexton, which is something positive.

I mean he routinely spaffs his pants over the simplest of things that Farrell does, but he did acknowledge he’s not been great at it in the past. So maybe he’s learning. Thank god we can provide this wonderful learning environment for Owen.

Kudos for being able to listen that for more than 90 seconds.

[Freddo]

Wilson called up for the wales game.

No point really when we've got Lawes and Ewels.

[Mikey Brown]

Goode on the rugby pod was saying how impressed he was listening to the ref link with Farrell’s chat with the ref, particularly in contrast to Sexton, which is something positive.

I mean he routinely spaffs his pants over the simplest of things that Farrell does, but he did acknowledge he’s not been great at it in the past. So maybe he’s learning. Thank god we can provide this wonderful learning environment for Owen.

Kudos for being able to listen that for more than 90 seconds.

Yeah I do wonder why I put myself through it sometimes. A central London commute can really drive you to desperation I suppose.

[Danno]

Goode on the rugby pod was saying how impressed he was listening to the ref link with Farrell’s chat with the ref, particularly in contrast to Sexton, which is something positive.

I mean he routinely spaffs his pants over the simplest of things that Farrell does, but he did acknowledge he’s not been great at it in the past. So maybe he’s learning. Thank god we can provide this wonderful learning environment for Owen.

Kudos for being able to listen that for more than 90 seconds.

Yeah I do wonder why I put myself through it sometimes. A central London commute can really drive you to desperation I suppose.

I understand completely. The usuals only get you to Tuesday morning before you're scrabbling about a bit

[Spiffy]

Goode on the rugby pod was saying how impressed he was listening to the ref link with Farrell’s chat with the ref, particularly in contrast to Sexton, which is something positive.

I mean he routinely spaffs his pants over the simplest of things that Farrell does, but he did acknowledge he’s not been great at it in the past. So maybe he’s learning. Thank god we can provide this wonderful learning environment for Owen.

To be fair, Owen is learning something new every game. His latest tactical ploy - leg humping. It's certainly innovative.

[Galfon]

always unwise to target the leg of a Stander..

Good to see Ford now playing with a strut and jauntiness his talent warrants at the highest level - that probably comes from the realisation the 10 shirt is now his to lose.
It's taken a while mind - the backline of Youngs/Ford/Burrell/Joseph/May/Watson/Brown with 12T off the bench looked pretty promising in Cardiff 2015 (the win) - just shows how fickle things can be...even had SCW drooling a bit I recall.

[Banquo]

Yes, Launch's restarts are awful; hitting breakdowns vs effective interventions would be interesting. Launch imo has been a bit inconsistent too since coming back from the long injury, plus I don't think he was fit when he first reappeared in Eddie's camps (no science there, just my perception). I think, rightly or wrongly, Eddie think Kruis brings a harder edge to proceedings.

For me its a judgement call, that's why we pay the coach.

Every time I've done ruck marks Launch has always scored very well. Itoje generally only gets ahead of him in workrate due to more lineouts taken, but then I'd prefer Launch's carrying. As for Kruis, I'm not sure how much lineout ball he's actually been taking recently thinking about it, Lawes and itoje seem to be more prevalent.

It’s great to be arguing over players of Kruis and Launchbury’s quality. I think Kruis has two things in his favour. Predominantly that he’s far superior at lineout time and to a lesser extent consistency. You can get 9/10 performances from Launchbury but occasionally you get a 5 or 6/10. Kruis is invariably 7/8 out of 10. Both quality players, though. Like choosing between Liz Hurley and Kate Beckinsale.

Funny, I'd say Launch is a consistent 8-9, whereas Kruis is the one who occasionally disappears from a game entirely.

Launch is a consistent 8 or 9/10 whilst Kruis occasionally disappears entirely!! Feels there might be a slight bit of Wasps bias in that evaluation.
Kruis may not take that many lineouts in comparison to Lawes and Itoje but as he runs the entire thing I reckon he can take credit for more than just his own catches. The lineout is so critical to rugby these days.
Agreed that Launchbury has better hands, despite the US debacle in Japan, and I’d say they’re fairly even as carriers with Launchbury possibly slightly better. As Banquo points out, his restarts are barely Prem quality. It’s a glaring and persistent weakness in another critical part of the game.
However, as I said, both test quality players and a good debate to be having.

Eddie prefers Kruis currently, and I can see why.

[Raggs]

Eddie prefers Kruis currently, and I can see why.

So can I, he's in a good vein of form at the moment, and a typical England side with Mako, Genge, LCD, Sink, BV, Curry, Lawes and Manu in, doesn't lack for carriers anyway.

[jngf]

Eddie prefers Kruis currently, and I can see why.

So can I, he's in a good vein of form at the moment, and a typical England side with Mako, Genge, LCD, Sink, BV, Curry, Lawes and Manu in, doesn't lack for carriers anyway.

Not sure I’d include Curry in such a list tbh - Underhill’s more of a carrier imo.

[Mikey Brown]

Oh jesus. I can't take any more of this.

[Banquo]

Eddie prefers Kruis currently, and I can see why.

So can I, he's in a good vein of form at the moment, and a typical England side with Mako, Genge, LCD, Sink, BV, Curry, Lawes and Manu in, doesn't lack for carriers anyway.

Not sure I’d include Curry in such a list tbh - Underhill’s more of a carrier imo.

In theory or in practice?

[Digby]

So can I, he's in a good vein of form at the moment, and a typical England side with Mako, Genge, LCD, Sink, BV, Curry, Lawes and Manu in, doesn't lack for carriers anyway.

Not sure I’d include Curry in such a list tbh - Underhill’s more of a carrier imo.

In theory or in practice?

Curry looks better in practice. I'd drop Lawes off that list, or at least down it and add in George and Itoje. I also don't think we can have too many carriers given we refuse to even try and play rugby

[jngf]

Not sure I’d include Curry in such a list tbh - Underhill’s more of a carrier imo.

In theory or in practice?

Curry looks better in practice. I'd drop Lawes off that list, or at least down it and add in George and Itoje. I also don't think we can have too many carriers given we refuse to even try and play rugby

Lawes is surely a far,far, far better carrier than Curry, and frankly better than any of our other forwards in this respect Vunipola brothers excepted. (Apologies to Mikey Brown)

[morepork]

Oh jesus. I can't take any more of this.

You will take, and you will like it. Eventually.

[Digby]

In theory or in practice?

Curry looks better in practice. I'd drop Lawes off that list, or at least down it and add in George and Itoje. I also don't think we can have too many carriers given we refuse to even try and play rugby

Lawes is surely a far,far, far better carrier than Curry, and frankly better than any of our other forwards in this respect Vunipola brothers excepted. (Apologies to Mikey Brown)

Better than Sincks and Genge? Behave

Lawes is okay, but he doesn't smash contact, he doesn't have fantastic leg drive once in contact, he doesn't offload or pass much out of contact and his ball presentation is okay-decent. Lawes also isn't rapid in the event he does get behind the line

[Raggs]

Lawes is good on the fringes of the ruck defence I feel. Curry is building more and more. Underhill isn't bad when hitting the line at pace. Lawes is below Mako, Genge, LCD, BV, Curry and Sink for me. Then it's arguable with regards to what sort of carrying against some of the others.