Idea for PRO12

[General Zod]

Sooo... we should be a step closer tomorrow when SARU make an announcement on which teams are cut. Ok, when they say the Cheetahs and the Kings are cut.

Latest I heard was that they've been invited, but PRO12 still not sure as to format or convinced on guarantees that the saffers won't play a developmental team.

I think in the cheetahs case, they'll retain some of their better players in that squad. It's Afrikaaner heartland - they don't like to leave the family!

[OptimisticJock]

I haven't got an issue with this happening but for the league to not even know what format and who will actually be in at this stage is SPFL levels of laughable.

[General Zod]

Guardian article...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... s-cheetahs

[morepork]

Guardian article...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... s-cheetahs

Jesus.

"“Local school derbies in South Africa attract more people than the last 10 Super Rugby games. [Joining the Pro12] will create an extraordinary dynamism and really put this tournament on a global stage that will absolutely outrival Super Rugby. You can hear the death knell of Super Rugby, it’s going to expire.”

[General Zod]

Announcement tomorrow.

[Stones of granite]

I expect now that the League will announce that Glasgow and Edinburgh will play their "traditional rival" the Cheetahs and the Kings on Hogmanay in South Africa.

[General Zod]

I expect now that the League will announce that Glasgow and Edinburgh will play their "traditional rival" the Cheetahs and the Kings on Hogmanay in South Africa.

Haha. 3-way rugby could be fun!

I'm getting a bit more interested to see how they would cope up here in the depths of winter.

[General Zod]

http://m.sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugby/Su ... y-20170707

Part one confirmed...

[BigAl]

Seems to me the SA teams will be paying to join, In the same way the Italians did when they joined.

I expect one of not two, North American teams to join in 19 or 20 and possibly a Romanian team. It'll split into conferences.

Money is king.

[Cameo]

Interesting article here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.scotsm ... 498195/amp

Nothing new but sums up the dilemna well

[Mr Mwenda]

It seems the generic solution to a league's ills is expansion. What will happen when there's one global league?

Just skimmed through the above and a couple of thoughts. What is the timeframe for 'success' in any expansion? Some people mention Toronto in English RL as a success but to my knowledge that's just one year old and not top level. At one stage rl thought the london broncos had been a successful expansion down south.

Secondly, these expansions sound like a lot of carbon miles. Quite apart from environmental considerations (which are considerable) how long is the era of cheap air travel to continue? The glory days of travelling within europe for naught feel like they've gone already. It just feels a bit desperate the image of all these teams jetting around desperately searching for a league that they profit in - perhaps a metaphor for capitalism somehow.

[Tre]

All I'm saying is I will be hugely pissed off if we switch it to conferences and lose derby matches as has been mooted

[Big D]

So 2 conferences of 7 it is.

[General Zod]

I hope they manage to keep a couple of Glasgow's matches with Munster. Starting to get a bit of a rivalry/ needle there, which is always good to create a bit of interest. Also, Ulster is always good for that, too.

[ARM]

So no Scottish derby games? Bah.

I'm all for progress and understand the commercial realities but hopefully this is not the massive clusterfuck that it has the potential to be.

Look forward to the scheduling. Given the concentration of test players in Scottish teams, particularly Glasgow, any away games in South Africa during AI and 6N windows and weeks immediately preceding would feature
Second/third strings. Come to think of it we're not going to send our top boys over week before Euro games so that doesn't leave much of a window unless the Saffers play a rake of 'home' games in the U.K.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

The pro 12 is pretty grim to watch at times outside of the knock outs, no derby games is going to push me further away.

This is shockingly poor mismanagement. This could be a fantastic opportunity but must be researched, planned and executed perfectly. As if the clusterf*ck that is the super 27 or whatever it is now isn't evidence enough of how silly it is to rush into these things.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

PS why the f*ck are there still two Italian teams?

[Cameo]

The pro 12 is pretty grim to watch at times outside of the knock outs, no derby games is going to push me further away.

This is shockingly poor mismanagement. This could be a fantastic opportunity but must be researched, planned and executed perfectly. As if the clusterf*ck that is the super 27 or whatever it is now isn't evidence enough of how silly it is to rush into these things.

I might be in a minority but always thought it was decent to watch. Plenty of decent teams who mainly look to play decent rugby (and then two italian teams). Im a bit concerned about this move

[General Zod]

Fuck it. I'm looking forward to it, although I do think we're missing a trick by not playing rugby in the summer.

[switchskier]

Fuck it. I'm looking forward to it, although I do think we're missing a trick by not playing rugby in the summer.

Well they will be if there are games in South Africa.

I'm in favour of the move. There's a real risk that the game comes to resemble rugby league which struggles to expand beyond its two heartlands in northern England and eastern Australia. With the money in England and France and the crowds that they can actually draw the game here and in Wales is in real trouble if something different isn't tried. I don't have any better ideas so if they can make it work then bring it on I reckon. Barely any away fans travel as it is (barely any home fans turn up sometimes) so I just don't see why this is an issue.

[Big D]

Rumours circulating that Zebre haven't been paid or started pre season yet

[ARM]

Fuck it. I'm looking forward to it, although I do think we're missing a trick by not playing rugby in the summer.

Well they will be if there are games in South Africa.

I'm in favour of the move. There's a real risk that the game comes to resemble rugby league which struggles to expand beyond its two heartlands in northern England and eastern Australia. With the money in England and France and the crowds that they can actually draw the game here and in Wales is in real trouble if something different isn't tried. I don't have any better ideas so if they can make it work then bring it on I reckon. Barely any away fans travel as it is (barely any home fans turn up sometimes) so I just don't see why this is an issue.

'Domestic' (haha) competitions should not be the vehicle to expand the game into new markets.

And rugby league in Aus is not exactly sick - particularly if you compare it to rugby in that country. And the reason for that - and also why the English and French competitions are financially strong (I know demographics have a part to play) is that you have established clubs with real identity and history playing against age-old rivals where fans have tribal loyalties. That provides an authentic product, generates interest and encourages sponsorship and broadcast support. The Pro12 was already a compromise - one that just about worked on many levels but still struggled to generate the same interest as outside of domestic derbies the rivalries were manufactured. This is a step further down the line - A Frankenstein creation that some punters might be prepared to back but there is a risk of alienation as they will know in their hearts is a manufactured product.

So I'm a bit troubled by this as I think it is being pursued with undue haste.

[Sandydragon]

Fuck it. I'm looking forward to it, although I do think we're missing a trick by not playing rugby in the summer.

Well they will be if there are games in South Africa.

I'm in favour of the move. There's a real risk that the game comes to resemble rugby league which struggles to expand beyond its two heartlands in northern England and eastern Australia. With the money in England and France and the crowds that they can actually draw the game here and in Wales is in real trouble if something different isn't tried. I don't have any better ideas so if they can make it work then bring it on I reckon. Barely any away fans travel as it is (barely any home fans turn up sometimes) so I just don't see why this is an issue.

I'd love to see a GB and Irish competitions, with multiple pro leagues. But given the strength of the English clubs, that wont happen anytime soon. I have read that the 2 conferences will ensure that derbies continue. Im not sure how that is going to happen exactly, there too much conjecture at the moment.

[switchskier]

Fuck it. I'm looking forward to it, although I do think we're missing a trick by not playing rugby in the summer.

Well they will be if there are games in South Africa.

I'm in favour of the move. There's a real risk that the game comes to resemble rugby league which struggles to expand beyond its two heartlands in northern England and eastern Australia. With the money in England and France and the crowds that they can actually draw the game here and in Wales is in real trouble if something different isn't tried. I don't have any better ideas so if they can make it work then bring it on I reckon. Barely any away fans travel as it is (barely any home fans turn up sometimes) so I just don't see why this is an issue.

I'd love to see a GB and Irish competitions, with multiple pro leagues. But given the strength of the English clubs, that wont happen anytime soon. I have read that the 2 conferences will ensure that derbies continue. Im not sure how that is going to happen exactly, there too much conjecture at the moment.

Yes, the RFU isn't going to let anyone else in anytime soon, doesn't make sense for them.

I believe that the idea is to have two Irish, two Welsh, one Scot, one Italian and one South African in each conference. Your team plays the other teams in their conference twice (12 games), the team's in the other conference once (another 6 games) and then an additional derby game against a team in a different conference (17 games). Playoffs at the end to determine the overall winner. What I have no idea about is how the conferences are determined or what is judged to be a derby game.

I get why people are sceptical and think that the organisation could easily go very wrong but quite frankly I'd back myself to get it organised in two months (work would be pretty unhappy if I couldn't manage something that straightforward) and they'll have known that this was on the cards for some time.

[General Zod]

Think the Cheetahs have Munster, so they may end up with Glasgow.