RugbyRebels

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Tre wrote: 'Most international wings'... come off it.

James is not slow, I watch him every week. He looked like he tired during that break to me, like he didnt have the legs to make it.

Could be there's an issue with his conditioning, which I believe Gatland has alluded to this week.

So are you saying he lost speed during his touchline dash? You are playing with semantics. To say he didn't have the legs to make it means he was not fast enough over the entire sprint to score. He might seem fast playing for Cardiff each week but international rugby is a step up.
As for his conditioning, Wales have stated on many occasions over the past few years that they are fitter than any team they play. Would Cement Head really pick him if he were not fit?

I'm saying he looked tired.

I'm disputing you would expect most international wings to score from 70m

Since wings are usually the fastest men on the pitch, and international wings should be the fastest of the fastest - yes, I would expect an average international wing to score with nobody between him and the try line, even if he does have to run 70 metres. That's about 9 seconds running time tops. How far, or for what time do you think a wing should be able to run before he tires?
You say he looked tired; I say he looked slow. But if he was slow as a result of being tired we are really saying the same thing. Better not to pick players who are tired to start with, or who get tired halfway through a sprint.
We have probably flogged this to death now. I'm getting tired!

Spiffy wrote:

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
So are you saying he lost speed during his touchline dash? You are playing with semantics. To say he didn't have the legs to make it means he was not fast enough over the entire sprint to score. He might seem fast playing for Cardiff each week but international rugby is a step up.
As for his conditioning, Wales have stated on many occasions over the past few years that they are fitter than any team they play. Would Cement Head really pick him if he were not fit?

I'm saying he looked tired.

I'm disputing you would expect most international wings to score from 70m

Since wings are usually the fastest men on the pitch, and international wings should be the fastest of the fastest - yes, I would expect an average international wing to score with nobody between him and the try line, even if he does have to run 70 metres. That's about 9 seconds running time tops. How far, or for what time do you think a wing should be able to run before he tires?
You say he looked tired; I say he looked slow. But if he was slow as a result of being tired we are really saying the same thing. Better not to pick players who are tired to start with, or who get tired halfway through a sprint.
We have probably flogged this to death now. I'm getting tired!

You don't have the legs for this.

It's extremely rare for any player to run it in opposed or not from 70 meters at a professional level.

Spiffy wrote:

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
So are you saying he lost speed during his touchline dash? You are playing with semantics. To say he didn't have the legs to make it means he was not fast enough over the entire sprint to score. He might seem fast playing for Cardiff each week but international rugby is a step up.
As for his conditioning, Wales have stated on many occasions over the past few years that they are fitter than any team they play. Would Cement Head really pick him if he were not fit?

I'm saying he looked tired.

I'm disputing you would expect most international wings to score from 70m

Since wings are usually the fastest men on the pitch, and international wings should be the fastest of the fastest - yes, I would expect an average international wing to score with nobody between him and the try line, even if he does have to run 70 metres. That's about 9 seconds running time tops. How far, or for what time do you think a wing should be able to run before he tires?
You say he looked tired; I say he looked slow. But if he was slow as a result of being tired we are really saying the same thing. Better not to pick players who are tired to start with, or who get tired halfway through a sprint.
We have probably flogged this to death now. I'm getting tired!

Read my last post.

Renniks wrote:

Billyfish wrote:

Renniks wrote:
They do so well of shutting down that style of play when NZ / Aus (and even Fiji) do it…

Yeah yeah, old news. That Fiji game was over a decade ago now wasn't it?

Not sure NZ or even Oz play with the same gay abandon that the French currently do.

To be fair - I meant the Fiji game from the RWC, where shutting them down was far from what you did…

And I'll concede that France's “let's play” is quite different to Southern Hemisphere versions of it

Ah. Fairy nuff.

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Tre wrote:
I'm saying he looked tired.

I'm disputing you would expect most international wings to score from 70m

Since wings are usually the fastest men on the pitch, and international wings should be the fastest of the fastest - yes, I would expect an average international wing to score with nobody between him and the try line, even if he does have to run 70 metres. That's about 9 seconds running time tops. How far, or for what time do you think a wing should be able to run before he tires?
You say he looked tired; I say he looked slow. But if he was slow as a result of being tired we are really saying the same thing. Better not to pick players who are tired to start with, or who get tired halfway through a sprint.
We have probably flogged this to death now. I'm getting tired!

You don't have the legs for this.

It's extremely rare for any player to run it in opposed or not from 70 meters at a professional level.

Not really Tre, especially from interceptions, James is a little off pace, he would have scored that a few years ago, the HC semi v Leicseter seems to ring a bell:



Tho as I said he is coming back from injury.

Spiffy wrote:

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
So are you saying he lost speed during his touchline dash? You are playing with semantics. To say he didn't have the legs to make it means he was not fast enough over the entire sprint to score. He might seem fast playing for Cardiff each week but international rugby is a step up.
As for his conditioning, Wales have stated on many occasions over the past few years that they are fitter than any team they play. Would Cement Head really pick him if he were not fit?

I'm saying he looked tired.

I'm disputing you would expect most international wings to score from 70m

Since wings are usually the fastest men on the pitch, and international wings should be the fastest of the fastest - yes, I would expect an average international wing to score with nobody between him and the try line, even if he does have to run 70 metres. That's about 9 seconds running time tops. How far, or for what time do you think a wing should be able to run before he tires?
You say he looked tired; I say he looked slow. But if he was slow as a result of being tired we are really saying the same thing. Better not to pick players who are tired to start with, or who get tired halfway through a sprint.
We have probably flogged this to death now. I'm getting tired!

50 yrds. This is known.

Numbers wrote:

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Since wings are usually the fastest men on the pitch, and international wings should be the fastest of the fastest - yes, I would expect an average international wing to score with nobody between him and the try line, even if he does have to run 70 metres. That's about 9 seconds running time tops. How far, or for what time do you think a wing should be able to run before he tires?
You say he looked tired; I say he looked slow. But if he was slow as a result of being tired we are really saying the same thing. Better not to pick players who are tired to start with, or who get tired halfway through a sprint.
We have probably flogged this to death now. I'm getting tired!

You don't have the legs for this.

It's extremely rare for any player to run it in opposed or not from 70 meters at a professional level.

Not really Tre, especially from interceptions, James is a little off pace, he would have scored that a few years ago, the HC semi v Leicseter seems to ring a bell:



Tho as I said he is coming back from injury.

It's still rare! He's nowhere near our first choice winger, but given the position we're in with injuries dropping him for not scoring from 70 meters is absurd.

Spiff wouldn't know much about wingers anyway, as Irish people think they're only there to chase Sexton's kicks.

Tre wrote:
It's still rare! He's nowhere near our first choice winger, but given the position we're in with injuries dropping him for not scoring from 70 meters is absurd.

Spiff wouldn't know much about wingers anyway, as Irish people think they're only there to chase Sexton's kicks.

No point chasing Sexton's kicks, they're too long and will just be returned anyway…

Mark Jones would not only have scored. But he'd still be running now.

Billyfish wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Tre wrote:
I'm saying he looked tired.

I'm disputing you would expect most international wings to score from 70m

Since wings are usually the fastest men on the pitch, and international wings should be the fastest of the fastest - yes, I would expect an average international wing to score with nobody between him and the try line, even if he does have to run 70 metres. That's about 9 seconds running time tops. How far, or for what time do you think a wing should be able to run before he tires?
You say he looked tired; I say he looked slow. But if he was slow as a result of being tired we are really saying the same thing. Better not to pick players who are tired to start with, or who get tired halfway through a sprint.
We have probably flogged this to death now. I'm getting tired!

50 yrds. This is known.

Then the same would apply to the bloke chasing him down. So how would he be overhauled?

Taylor could sustain a sprint for longer, looked to me to be a superior distance sprinter and had less distance to run. I'm not saying all rugby players can't sustain a sprint for that distance it's just that most operate in short bursts and 50 yards is more normal. 100 metre sprinters are different beasts from rugby players, few wingers are 100m sprinters.

Doing a bit of random trigonometry (why not…) based on video on youtube

When James was ~70 meters out…
Taylor was about 17 meters in field…

So the distance Taylor has to run to get in to the corner is about 72 meters (Square root of [70 squared + 17 squared])

He was also about 5 meters closer to the try line… so almost certainly had less distance to run to get to the corner, so if he gets his angles right, and causes any indecision in James, he'd catch him if they were the same speed…
I actually think he's also quicker than James… so it was all a bit of a formality really

Billyfish wrote:Taylor could sustain a sprint for longer, looked to me to be a superior distance sprinter and had less distance to run. I'm not saying all rugby players can't sustain a sprint for that distance it's just that most operate in short bursts and 50 yards is more normal. 100 metre sprinters are different beasts from rugby players, few wingers are 100m sprinters.

But James was a fell runner you don't do that unless you have a lot of natural gas in the tank

Renniks wrote:Doing a bit of random trigonometry (why not…) based on video on youtube

When James was ~70 meters out…
Taylor was about 17 meters in field…

So the distance Taylor has to run to get in to the corner is about 72 meters (Square root of [70 squared + 17 squared])

He was also about 5 meters closer to the try line… so almost certainly had less distance to run to get to the corner, so if he gets his angles right, and causes any indecision in James, he'd catch him if they were the same speed…
I actually think he's also quicker than James… so it was all a bit of a formality really

You forgot to factor in wind speed and direction; the relative weight of each player's boots; the length of studs; what each had for breakfast and whether he had sex the night before.

Spiffy wrote:

Renniks wrote:Doing a bit of random trigonometry (why not…) based on video on youtube

When James was ~70 meters out…
Taylor was about 17 meters in field…

So the distance Taylor has to run to get in to the corner is about 72 meters (Square root of [70 squared + 17 squared])

He was also about 5 meters closer to the try line… so almost certainly had less distance to run to get to the corner, so if he gets his angles right, and causes any indecision in James, he'd catch him if they were the same speed…
I actually think he's also quicker than James… so it was all a bit of a formality really

You forgot to factor in wind speed and direction; the relative weight of each player's boots; the length of studs; what each had for breakfast and whether he had sex the night before.

All these factors, yet you'd still expect all international wingers to run it in from there.

Well I'm looking forward too tonight, I'm hoping the french at least it competitive for 60 mins so us neutrals get some thing. I actually much prefer friday night rugby to sundays (blasphemy I know). Should be a good atmosphere.

twitchy wrote:Well I'm looking forward too tonight, I'm hoping the french at least it competitive for 60 mins so us neutrals get some thing. I actually much prefer friday night rugby to sundays (blasphemy I know). Should be a good atmosphere.

I'm hoping France win, if we somehow beat Ireland, I'd rather play Wales when they're pretty much out of the tournament than still in it.
(only by a point or something like that)

Then we'll deal with a France grand slam contest when we get to it…

I too, am hoping for a French win, not just hoping but expecting a French win with a last minute drop-goal!
Dream on ff!!

I knew it would somehow all come back down to Le Crunch!

I'm in the normal downward swing of The Cycle, currently convinced we'll lose tonight. But I'm used to that, I know we're better than them, and I'll feel better by kick-off. Being favourites against France or England has just never sat right with me.

Sourdust wrote:I'm in the normal downward swing of The Cycle, currently convinced we'll lose tonight. But I'm used to that, I know we're better than them, and I'll feel better by kick-off. Being favourites against France or England has just never sat right with me.

I'm exactly the same - growing up where losing to those two (well, everyone really) was normal so it's weird that we're on a run against France and I just think that it's bound to end.

Yep, it'll end one day - this evening!!!

Im in the pessimistic phase at the moment, on paper we have the better 23 but for me its still the you never know which France will turn up

francoisfou wrote:Yep, it'll end one day - this evening!!!

I am getting butterflies. First time this tournament. Optimistic butterflies though. Looking forward to it. I think we'll win unless we get encouraged into a game of chuck about. Or France suddenly click (le clique).

Tre wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Renniks wrote:Doing a bit of random trigonometry (why not…) based on video on youtube

When James was ~70 meters out…
Taylor was about 17 meters in field…

So the distance Taylor has to run to get in to the corner is about 72 meters (Square root of [70 squared + 17 squared])

He was also about 5 meters closer to the try line… so almost certainly had less distance to run to get to the corner, so if he gets his angles right, and causes any indecision in James, he'd catch him if they were the same speed…
I actually think he's also quicker than James… so it was all a bit of a formality really

You forgot to factor in wind speed and direction; the relative weight of each player's boots; the length of studs; what each had for breakfast and whether he had sex the night before.

All these factors, yet you'd still expect all international wingers to run it in from there.

I watched James's break again last night. We can't see exactly where Taylor is at the start, but he's definitely closer to the Scottish try line than James, by 5-10 meters. Judged by eye, it looks like they have a similar distance to run (but it could well be that Taylor had a meter or two in hand), and unfortunately for us Taylor's tackle was very effective (although not enough to push James into touch). Lamont was chasing James down the line, and he was moving at a similar pace to James, gaining ever so slightly, but probably not enough to stop James. So James is no faster than Lamont or Taylor over this distance.

But hey, James wasn't turned over (due to Faletau's excellent support run - very fast for a forward), it all led to Roberts's try, and that was probably an important one for us in that I think it will encourage Wales to employ this close-range, high speed, angled-run Roberts tactic more often.