Team for Argentina

[Digby]

Based on Jones' comments we're already informed we will not be seeking a max level performance against the Argies or Aussies. In that the players will be fatigued going into these games with a view to setting the right fitness levels by 2019

[Banquo]

FFS. If they want Joseph and they’re resting Farrel anyway just stick Slade at 12. They’re the same fucking position.

good missionary work Mikey

[Mikey Brown]

Get to fuck.

[Scrumhead]

Surely we can afford to give Maro a rest and give Mako a couple of weeks on the bench. And Daly needs some rest, too, I think, so surely we can rest him, too, if May is fit. If not, I have no issue with his presence in the 23.

I'd agree but Eddie will want most of his best 23 to have an outing against Argentina, as we have Australia the week after when he will want to put out his best available starting XV.
Changes for Samoa, with a few Lions getting a break is pretty likely i'd say.

I know he doesn't want the team going in cold, but a couple of changes isn't terrible. Mako and Maro should be able to come straight in against Aus without any issue. So bench/rest them. Farrell, too. And I'd say May is our most in form winger, so I'd want him playing anyway.

100% agree. Eddie’s results are enough to have won my trust, but on occasion, I feel like we’re letting opportunities pass us by - whether that’s resting some of our better players or blooding the less experienced ones.

[Mellsblue]

FFS. If they want Joseph and they’re resting Farrel anyway just stick Slade at 12. They’re the same fucking position.

good missionary work Mikey

Hehe

[Banquo]

Get to fuck.

good to know you've retained your normal sang froid, and good to know you still do....

[Puja]

The point is (and, yes, I know it's my hobby horse) that we are behind where we should be because of the Lions disruption and NZ are ahead of where they should be for the same reason.
We now have only 12 games to get a world-beating XV in place - which had to be Eddie's job description leader.

Okay, I'll bite. Isn't there a benefit to the English players who have now won a game and drawn a series against New Zealand?

And, arguing that we might've played NZ in lieu of the Lions won't work because we toured them in 2014, so absent a Lions tour, it would likely have been Ireland or Scotland going there.

Puja

[fivepointer]

i'm no jamboree lover but on balance this time around i think the positives outweigh the negatives of our players going. it was actually a good thing for Eddie to have to look to bring in some new players, some of whom will feature this w/e. it means that Genge, Williams, Curry, Underhill and Loz will at least have had some international exposure before this series of games.

[Digby]

Had the Jamboree not flown off to raise money for a major tier 1 rival you could still have taken the new lads to Argentina whilst also allowing the lads flogged by the Lions an actual off season. And really in a WC cycle it's the off season you'd pick to allow for some proper rest

[Oakboy]

The point is (and, yes, I know it's my hobby horse) that we are behind where we should be because of the Lions disruption and NZ are ahead of where they should be for the same reason.
We now have only 12 games to get a world-beating XV in place - which had to be Eddie's job description leader.

Okay, I'll bite. Isn't there a benefit to the English players who have now won a game and drawn a series against New Zealand?

And, arguing that we might've played NZ in lieu of the Lions won't work because we toured them in 2014, so absent a Lions tour, it would likely have been Ireland or Scotland going there.

Puja

So, are you saying that with no jamboree NZ would not have us tour once in every 4 year RWC cycle? Frankly, I don't believe it. They'd need the money.

It's a waste of time batting this back and forward when it's just my opinion. What I was alluding to was that it appears now (to an extent) to be Eddie's opinion. He now seems unlikely to rest any/most of the Lions having previously said he would. He's also criticised their fitness. 'Smokescreen' was somebody else's word but it's apt. Eddie is nowhere near floundering but I'd suggest he is anxious. He sounds less confident than he did a year ago, IMO. The team unit is behind where it should be regardless of any individual gain and it's the team unit that needs to make progress in a hurry now.

[Mikey Brown]

Get to fuck.

good to know you've retained your normal sang froid, and good to know you still do....

That was basically a pun. I thought you would have enjoyed it.

[Timbo]

The team unit is behind where it should be regardless of any individual gain and it's the team unit that needs to make progress in a hurry now.

I disagree with your interpretation of Eddies mood, but this quoted bit I really don’t get...

What/where/how/Why....is the ‘team unit’ behind where it should be....because some players missed 2 tests in Argentina? 2 1/2 weeks of coaching...really? Besides, surely the experimentation on that tour was hugely beneficial? Seems to me that you’re trying to fit the facts to your previously decided upon narrative.

[Puja]

The point is (and, yes, I know it's my hobby horse) that we are behind where we should be because of the Lions disruption and NZ are ahead of where they should be for the same reason.
We now have only 12 games to get a world-beating XV in place - which had to be Eddie's job description leader.

Okay, I'll bite. Isn't there a benefit to the English players who have now won a game and drawn a series against New Zealand?

And, arguing that we might've played NZ in lieu of the Lions won't work because we toured them in 2014, so absent a Lions tour, it would likely have been Ireland or Scotland going there.

Puja

So, are you saying that with no jamboree NZ would not have us tour once in every 4 year RWC cycle? Frankly, I don't believe it. They'd need the money.

It's a waste of time batting this back and forward when it's just my opinion. What I was alluding to was that it appears now (to an extent) to be Eddie's opinion. He now seems unlikely to rest any/most of the Lions having previously said he would. He's also criticised their fitness. 'Smokescreen' was somebody else's word but it's apt. Eddie is nowhere near floundering but I'd suggest he is anxious. He sounds less confident than he did a year ago, IMO. The team unit is behind where it should be regardless of any individual gain and it's the team unit that needs to make progress in a hurry now.

New Zealand also have not played Ireland, Scotland, or France this RWC cycle and they would fill the coffers of the NZRU equally well. And even if you believe England should be preferred by them for some reason, the IRB has a tour schedule for a reason to make sure that teams don't just end up touring who'll make them money and ignoring everyone else. France are scheduled for 2018, so if there were no Lions, it'd have been their turn this year.

I also disagree with you that Eddie is anxious. Eddie is Eddie and trusting any of his public pronouncements is a fool's gambit (albeit one that I fall for on a regular basis). The team is 2 years out from the RWC - it's not like it's next week. Will all of these players be playing by then? Will union as a sport have lurched in a different direction with another laws 'clarification'? Will new players have broken through? I don't mean that we shouldn't be looking forward, but to say that "the team unit" needs to be something or other seems a bit odd when it very likely won't be the same team by then.

Puja

[Oakboy]

The team unit is behind where it should be regardless of any individual gain and it's the team unit that needs to make progress in a hurry now.

I disagree with your interpretation of Eddies mood, but this quoted bit I really don’t get...

What/where/how/Why....is the ‘team unit’ behind where it should be....because some players missed 2 tests in Argentina? 2 1/2 weeks of coaching...really? Besides, surely the experimentation on that tour was hugely beneficial? Seems to me that you’re trying to fit the facts to your previously decided upon narrative.

So, are you saying Eddie has been consistent? I choose to interpret his change of stance as of significance. That is all. With 12 games to go, I'd like to see the team unit improving game on game after a disappointing 6N when, IMO, the general game to game performance was not improving. As for experimentation in Argentina, are you really saying that a forced experimentation is better than a planned one? When it comes to choosing our own agenda, maybe all that did is get a few fans' favourites some game time.

[TheNomad]

So the rumour is that Farrell and Itoje have sat out some of the training sessions/drills and that thus, they're unlikely to start. I guess that would leave us with:

Genge/Mako
George/Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Launch/Kruis
Robshaw
Underhill
Hughes

Youngs
Ford
Watson
Lozowski/Slade
Joseph/Slade
Daly
Brown

A few areas of uncertainty but I think that looks like a pretty bloody good team

[fivepointer]

Francis isnt in the squad.

But yes, this is looking like a very good side with a nice balance between established players and a few newbies. My hope is that enough of the newer players do actually start.

[Puja]

Team announced - Slade at 12, Fazlet and Itoje rested.

Puja

[Puja]

Vunipola
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Kruis
Robshaw
Underhill
Hughes

Youngs
Ford
Daly
Slade
Joseph
Watson
Brown

George, Genge, Williams, Launchbury, TCurry, Care, Lozowski, Rokoduguni

[Stom]

Disappointed Genge and George don't start. And that May didn't make it

But it's a handy looking team for sure. What happens if Slade plays a blinder and we look cohesive and threatening?

[Stom]

Oh, and in terms of late threat from the bench. Bloody hell. I mean, there is some pace and power on that bench, for sure. I mean, all of those are real impact players. That's going to be really interesting.

[Oakboy]

Oh well, that's me flummoxed but delighted. I really never thought we'd see the dream team of Ford, Slade and JJ, much as I yearned for it. I now have my fingers crossed that the backrow and Youngs can deliver decent quick ball.

[Oakboy]

What happens if Slade plays a blinder and we look cohesive and threatening?

Just hope that Ford and JJ play 'undroppably' well too!

[Banquo]

Whilst I think Slade's future at intl level is 12, esp as he is now a threatening runner , seems a bit odd that he has had no game time there this season to my knowledge...and that you haven't got Watson at 15.

That said, decent side and bench; it would have been much more interesting if May were fit. Glad Roko is on the bench. I wonder what it is about Launch that Eddie doesnt fancy, or whether he wants Kruis to run the l/o and thinks a Kruis/Launch lock pairing as a bit wimpy.

Glad Itoje is getting a rest.

[Banquo]

Disappointed Genge and George don't start. And that May didn't make it

But it's a handy looking team for sure. What happens if Slade plays a blinder and we look cohesive and threatening?

..one of Ford or JJ will be dropped in that case. That's just how it is with Eddie.

[fivepointer]

The midfield selection is one that pleases me. Would have liked to see Watson at FB and the bench props start, but overall thats looks a good selection. Tough that May misses out, can only assume hes not quite fit enough.
Faz and Itoje rested is very sound.