RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: I was so impressed with their coaching and attention to detail when they first appeared in the Prem; Baxter knows his stuff technically. I'd like to see what he'd do with England.

You'd assume he's the next domestic camp off the rank but I'd like to see him test himself somewhere else first. He knows nothing but Exeter.

he'd need to leave Chiefs sharpish then....or maybe a saxons gig or three

He would. If true, it’s a shame he turned down Clermont a couple of years ago. Exeter fans may feel differently.

Mikey Brown wrote:No real news there unless I've missed anything? Status of Brown/Teo/Underhill still unknown?

Te'o isn't available, he's only with the squad until Wednesday.

It really does seem a massive mistake not to have called up BCurry. If Underhill doesn't make Saturday, then we're going to end up with Lawes/Robshaw/Hughes or Robshaw/Simmonds/Hughes, neither of which will teach us a huge amount. Surely far better to get some game time into a proper 7 instead of continuing on with these head-games.

Puja

Eddie play head games? You mean it's possible Hartley isn't surfing at the top of the crest?

No Underhill confirmed by Eddie. Not bothering with trying to race through the protocols, it's his second concussion this season and they're resting him.

Raggs wrote:No Underhill confirmed by Eddie. Not bothering with trying to race through the protocols, it's his second concussion this season and they're resting him.

A shame. I'd like to see more from him to have more of an idea of whether he's even with the inclusion. So far I'm still just not that impressed

I'm fairly impressed as it happens. Thought he started the Oz game pretty well. I think he'll develop into a very good player. But then we're producing some good flankers right now, which has been a long time coming.

Chisholm could be another to add to the list of candidates.

What impresses about him?

Digby wrote:What impresses about him?

He ticks Eddie's boxes. He is a strong tackler, quick off the scrum and quick to identify danger, he rucks well and he has the workrate to be first or second in to most rucks.

As impressive as Ben Curry is offensively, Underhill is doing exactly what Jones wanted him to do. So, yeah, I'm impressed.

The question now is: who plays 7? As Robshaw is not a 7. Remember that. And Jones is never wrong.

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:What impresses about him?

He ticks Eddie's boxes. He is a strong tackler, quick off the scrum and quick to identify danger, he rucks well and he has the workrate to be first or second in to most rucks.

As impressive as Ben Curry is offensively, Underhill is doing exactly what Jones wanted him to do. So, yeah, I'm impressed.

The question now is: who plays 7? As Robshaw is not a 7. Remember that. And Jones is never wrong.

I get he's strong in the tackle. The rest doesn't seem that stand out (yet) to me.

I hope to be proved wrong by Underhill, and if he does show more I'll very happily become a big fan, just right now I'd rather have one of the Curry boys, Clifford or given truly a free option then Kvesic

I also get Eddie has a very limited set of requirements from the 7 for now, I don't agree, but it's very hard to argue with his win %

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:What impresses about him?

He ticks Eddie's boxes. He is a strong tackler, quick off the scrum and quick to identify danger, he rucks well and he has the workrate to be first or second in to most rucks.

As impressive as Ben Curry is offensively, Underhill is doing exactly what Jones wanted him to do. So, yeah, I'm impressed.

The question now is: who plays 7? As Robshaw is not a 7. Remember that. And Jones is never wrong.

I get he's strong in the tackle. The rest doesn't seem that stand out (yet) to me.

I hope to be proved wrong by Underhill, and if he does show more I'll very happily become a big fan, just right now I'd rather have one of the Curry boys, Clifford or given truly a free option then Kvesic

I also get Eddie has a very limited set of requirements from the 7 for now, I don't agree, but it's very hard to argue with his win %

I just don't feel like he wants a more attacking backrow. I feel like he loves the idea of the rapid back 3, and bringing them into play off mistakes. So our pack is based around containment and defense rather than attacking brilliance.

I would also look at doing something different, but I also feel like the Currys are not ready for international rugby, Clifford isn't fit and isn't any more of a 7, and Kvesic isn't getting any gametime.

So right now, he's the best option. In the future, he may move over to 6, or he may drop out of the reckoning altogether. But for now, he's the best available.

Going forward it's going to be really interesting with Mercer coming through, Chisholm looking good, Clifford back fit, the Curry's both fit and firing and more experienced, Simmonds continuing to shine...We've got some options in that backrow. And to think not long ago we had Tom Johnson, Waldrom and Robshaw together...

Right now he's no option

Simmonds would be my pick at 7 for Samoa

Banquo wrote:

switchskier wrote:Thought that Joseph was very quiet yesterday from the highlights programme. If you look purely at AP form I'd select Slade ahead of him so why not give him a run in the simplest of the games that you have in these AIs?

They are quite different players in style and contribution terms, and you probably wouldn't expect to see much of JJ bar a very good finish in the highlights of a game where he touched it four times- once was a try, and once was an excellent miss pass btw.

JJ made some critical tackles. Like B.Barrett, he can do country AND western.

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:What impresses about him?

He ticks Eddie's boxes. He is a strong tackler, quick off the scrum and quick to identify danger, he rucks well and he has the workrate to be first or second in to most rucks.

As impressive as Ben Curry is offensively, Underhill is doing exactly what Jones wanted him to do. So, yeah, I'm impressed.

The question now is: who plays 7? As Robshaw is not a 7. Remember that. And Jones is never wrong.

I get he's strong in the tackle. The rest doesn't seem that stand out (yet) to me.

I hope to be proved wrong by Underhill, and if he does show more I'll very happily become a big fan, just right now I'd rather have one of the Curry boys, Clifford or given truly a free option then Kvesic

I also get Eddie has a very limited set of requirements from the 7 for now, I don't agree, but it's very hard to argue with his win %

Would you honestly pick Kvesic now? He barely played last season and can’t currently break in to Exeter’s first team. If he can get back to his 2015 form, I’d be tempted to agree. Right now though, he would be a ridiculous selection.

I suspect Simmonds will get the nod to start at 7 on Saturday and it’ll be really interesting to see how he gets on. If he plays well and can shine in attack and defence, it might provide Eddie with some food for thought.

kk67 wrote:

Banquo wrote:

switchskier wrote:Thought that Joseph was very quiet yesterday from the highlights programme. If you look purely at AP form I'd select Slade ahead of him so why not give him a run in the simplest of the games that you have in these AIs?

They are quite different players in style and contribution terms, and you probably wouldn't expect to see much of JJ bar a very good finish in the highlights of a game where he touched it four times- once was a try, and once was an excellent miss pass btw.

JJ made some critical tackles. Like B.Barrett, he can do country AND western.

He did, he's one of the best defenders in the world in midfield. However, I was referring to a highlights reel as per SS's quote.

Scrumhead wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:
He ticks Eddie's boxes. He is a strong tackler, quick off the scrum and quick to identify danger, he rucks well and he has the workrate to be first or second in to most rucks.

As impressive as Ben Curry is offensively, Underhill is doing exactly what Jones wanted him to do. So, yeah, I'm impressed.

The question now is: who plays 7? As Robshaw is not a 7. Remember that. And Jones is never wrong.

I get he's strong in the tackle. The rest doesn't seem that stand out (yet) to me.

I hope to be proved wrong by Underhill, and if he does show more I'll very happily become a big fan, just right now I'd rather have one of the Curry boys, Clifford or given truly a free option then Kvesic

I also get Eddie has a very limited set of requirements from the 7 for now, I don't agree, but it's very hard to argue with his win %

Would you honestly pick Kvesic now? He barely played last season and can’t currently break in to Exeter’s first team. If he can get back to his 2015 form, I’d be tempted to agree. Right now though, he would be a ridiculous selection.

I suspect Simmonds will get the nod to start at 7 on Saturday and it’ll be really interesting to see how he gets on. If he plays well and can shine in attack and defence, it might provide Eddie with some food for thought.

Pick Kvesic and it'd force Eddie's hand somewhat. Also if we're in a world where picking someone with 20 odd AP caps nearly all at 8 is viable then Kvesic is a far from ridiculous selection

Banquo wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Banquo wrote: They are quite different players in style and contribution terms, and you probably wouldn't expect to see much of JJ bar a very good finish in the highlights of a game where he touched it four times- once was a try, and once was an excellent miss pass btw.

JJ made some critical tackles. Like B.Barrett, he can do country AND western.

He did, he's one of the best defenders in the world in midfield. However, I was referring to a highlights reel as per SS's quote.

Yeah.
There was a moment in the 2nd half when Oz looked like they might cut loose and JJ came from left of shot and ripped their move into little bitty pieces. I found myself rolling my eyes and thinking 'Banquo's gonna love that'.

Digby wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

Digby wrote:
I get he's strong in the tackle. The rest doesn't seem that stand out (yet) to me.

I hope to be proved wrong by Underhill, and if he does show more I'll very happily become a big fan, just right now I'd rather have one of the Curry boys, Clifford or given truly a free option then Kvesic

I also get Eddie has a very limited set of requirements from the 7 for now, I don't agree, but it's very hard to argue with his win %

Would you honestly pick Kvesic now? He barely played last season and can’t currently break in to Exeter’s first team. If he can get back to his 2015 form, I’d be tempted to agree. Right now though, he would be a ridiculous selection.

I suspect Simmonds will get the nod to start at 7 on Saturday and it’ll be really interesting to see how he gets on. If he plays well and can shine in attack and defence, it might provide Eddie with some food for thought.

Pick Kvesic and it'd force Eddie's hand somewhat. Also if we're in a world where picking someone with 20 odd AP caps nearly all at 8 is viable then Kvesic is a far from ridiculous selection

Sam Simmonds has started a Premiership game for Exeter at 7 this season. Which is more than can be said for Kvesic, who hasn't started a Premiership game for Exeter at all.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
Would you honestly pick Kvesic now? He barely played last season and can’t currently break in to Exeter’s first team. If he can get back to his 2015 form, I’d be tempted to agree. Right now though, he would be a ridiculous selection.

I suspect Simmonds will get the nod to start at 7 on Saturday and it’ll be really interesting to see how he gets on. If he plays well and can shine in attack and defence, it might provide Eddie with some food for thought.

Pick Kvesic and it'd force Eddie's hand somewhat. Also if we're in a world where picking someone with 20 odd AP caps nearly all at 8 is viable then Kvesic is a far from ridiculous selection

Sam Simmonds has started a Premiership game for Exeter at 7 this season. Which is more than can be said for Kvesic, who hasn't started a Premiership game for Exeter at all.

Puja

And played what twice for Gloucester last September? Form is not the only criteria but come on ...

Re. Simmonds playing mainly at 8, I’m pretty sure Kvesic’s only game time this season in the AW Cup was at 8. He was definitely packing down there for the scrums anyway.

Also, you’re judging Kvesic’s effectiveness on the old breakdown laws. I’m not sure the Kvesic from 2 years ago would be allowed to be as effective now as he was then within the new laws.

Out of the younger back row options, the one that seems closest to Underhill from what I have seen is Lewis Ludlow and I think he is top of the tackle stats this year by some way. Obviously not for Samoa but if that is the style of flanker that Eddie wants he could be worth keeping an eye on

Scrumhead wrote: Also, you’re judging Kvesic’s effectiveness on the old breakdown laws. I’m not sure the Kvesic from 2 years ago would be allowed to be as effective now as he was then within the new laws.

uh..?.

Eddie not adding to the squad and thinking of Robshaw or Itoje at 7.

This is a bit disappointing. Kvesic would have been a stretch but the bang in form B Curry wouldnt be. There is surely a case for Armand or Wilson to be brought in to at least give some options, otherwise we have 3 back rowers available so will have to play a lock out of position. Meanwhile we have 6 of those to choose from.

Scrumhead wrote: Also, you’re judging Kvesic’s effectiveness on the old breakdown laws. I’m not sure the Kvesic from 2 years ago would be allowed to be as effective now as he was then within the new laws.

This. It hadn’t really dawned on me - mainly as picking Kvesic would be ridiculous - but we have no idea whether he’d be effective under the new laws. As his strongest weapon is the turnover he’d either struggle or be worth his weight in gold.

fivepointer wrote: This is a bit disappointing. Kvesic would have been a stretch but the bang in form B Curry wouldnt be. There is surely a case for Armand or Wilson to be brought in to at least give some options, otherwise we have 3 back rowers available so will have to play a lock out of position. Meanwhile we have 6 of those to choose from.

Yep. Very disappointing that he’s not taking this opportunity to experiment. B Curry would be the obvious call up at 7 but, as you say, even if Robshaw moves there it’s an opportunity to give a 6 some more experience. Even a couple of days in camp would be good for B Curry. Sticking with what Jones has to pick from, I’m hoping we go Robshaw - Simmonds - Hughes with Mercer on the bench.