RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:Mallinder has a lot of good attributes and I can see why Eddie's interested. He's rapid, huge boot, good sense at picking a line, nice range of passes, capable of carrying a crash ball up, has the creativity to play 10, can cover any position from 10-15 from the bench - he's got an awful lot going for him. He's basically been Northampton's attacking game for large swathes of this season.

If Eddie can teach him not to be so bloody wet and not to shy away from uncontrolled contact and tackling like a scolded puppy, then he could be anreally good player. I would've thought the time to see that was in the last training camp though.

Puja

Aside from being yellow, he is also a pretty poor decision maker. And when you say cover any position from 10-15, you mean could play there, and I wouldn't let him play any of them for England at this point.

I'd say that's more than a little harsh. While "Northampton's best fly-half" is a title akin to "Switzerland's best admiral" he is that despite it not being his position. In attack, he's looked good, threatening, and has made pretty good decisions (one nightmare game just after dad's sacking (I think vs Quins?) notwithstanding). If it wasn't for the general all-purpose cowardice, I'd be very excited about him as a player.

Puja

thing is with Mallinder is that lack of bottle is a pretty alarming shortcoming in someone playing a contact sport. I'm not sure how thats going to change.

p/d wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Eddie is starting to pi$$ me off. I just can’t fathom where he’s going with some of these selections.

Just starting!!! Been pissing me off for quite a while now.

Defeat to Ireland, underwhelming AI and now fannying about for opening game of 6n

I can accept the odd defeat and off game, it’s the irrational, illogical selections that irritate me.

There are too many good players who must feel completely alienated, which concerns me. I’m less concerned about older players, but it bothers me when players who should be playing a big part in our present and future are inexplicably left out.

Scrumhead wrote:

p/d wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Eddie is starting to pi$$ me off. I just can’t fathom where he’s going with some of these selections.

Just starting!!! Been pissing me off for quite a while now.

Defeat to Ireland, underwhelming AI and now fannying about for opening game of 6n

I can accept the odd defeat and off game, it’s the irrational, illogical selections that irritate me.

There are too many good players who must feel completely alienated, which concerns me. I’m less concerned about older players, but it bothers me when players who should be playing a big part in our present and future are inexplicably left out.

Who specifically?

Timbo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

p/d wrote: Just starting!!! Been pissing me off for quite a while now.

Defeat to Ireland, underwhelming AI and now fannying about for opening game of 6n

I can accept the odd defeat and off game, it’s the irrational, illogical selections that irritate me.

There are too many good players who must feel completely alienated, which concerns me. I’m less concerned about older players, but it bothers me when players who should be playing a big part in our present and future are inexplicably left out.

Who specifically?

Mark Atkinson

Tbf to Eddie, were we not expecting a heck of a lot of good stuff to come with his appointment but also a fair amount of wtf? I distinctly remember thinking he was a bloody good coach in the 2003 WC whilst being intensely irritating to an Eng fan. He was world class at winding the poms up from an Aussie point of view. But there was also a feeling that there was something a bit odd lurking beneath the surface. I'm defo in the wtf camp when it comes to his squad selections.

Timbo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

p/d wrote: Just starting!!! Been pissing me off for quite a while now.

Defeat to Ireland, underwhelming AI and now fannying about for opening game of 6n

I can accept the odd defeat and off game, it’s the irrational, illogical selections that irritate me.

There are too many good players who must feel completely alienated, which concerns me. I’m less concerned about older players, but it bothers me when players who should be playing a big part in our present and future are inexplicably left out.

Who specifically?

Specifically Armand, Wilson, Ben Curry, Cowan-Dickie, Robson and Woodburn.

All six of them would be entirely justified if they felt marginalised and demotivated off the back of Eddie’s recent squads.

As I said in an earlier post, I don’t have an issue with Dunn’s selection based on his recent form, but Cowan-Dickie is a far superior player IMO.

I guess Robson can take a small amount of solace in that there is no third scrum half selected ahead of him, but the others must be seething at being consistently overlooked in favour of inferior players.

I know others have questioned his international pedigree, but personally, I can’t understand how Woodburn is left out when Solomona and Earle are included.

Beasties wrote:Tbf to Eddie, were we not expecting a heck of a lot of good stuff to come with his appointment but also a fair amount of wtf? I distinctly remember thinking he was a bloody good coach in the 2003 WC whilst being intensely irritating to an Eng fan. He was world class at winding the poms up from an Aussie point of view.

Apparently he still is. At least in my case.

fivepointer wrote:thing is with Mallinder is that lack of bottle is a pretty alarming shortcoming in someone playing a contact sport. I'm not sure how thats going to change.

You're not wrong. My only thought is immersion therapy - just set him to being run over by the fat boys and get him in with the forwards for rucking training. If he learns he won't really get hurt, he'llbe less likely to shy away (and ironically less likely to be hurt!)

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:Mallinder has a lot of good attributes and I can see why Eddie's interested. He's rapid, huge boot, good sense at picking a line, nice range of passes, capable of carrying a crash ball up, has the creativity to play 10, can cover any position from 10-15 from the bench - he's got an awful lot going for him. He's basically been Northampton's attacking game for large swathes of this season.

If Eddie can teach him not to be so bloody wet and not to shy away from uncontrolled contact and tackling like a scolded puppy, then he could be anreally good player. I would've thought the time to see that was in the last training camp though.

Puja

Aside from being yellow, he is also a pretty poor decision maker. And when you say cover any position from 10-15, you mean could play there, and I wouldn't let him play any of them for England at this point.

I'd say that's more than a little harsh. While "Northampton's best fly-half" is a title akin to "Switzerland's best admiral" he is that despite it not being his position. In attack, he's looked good, threatening, and has made pretty good decisions (one nightmare game just after dad's sacking (I think vs Quins?) notwithstanding). If it wasn't for the general all-purpose cowardice, I'd be very excited about him as a player.

Puja

what's more than a little harsh? That he's yellow? That he's a poor decision maker? That I wouldn't let him play anywhere 10-15 for England? Defence alone would rule him out of those slots- if anything, his defensive frailty (to be kind) was exposed even more at 10/12 than at 15.

I may be being brutal, but someone who won't tackle in any position is a total liability.

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: Aside from being yellow, he is also a pretty poor decision maker. And when you say cover any position from 10-15, you mean could play there, and I wouldn't let him play any of them for England at this point.

I'd say that's more than a little harsh. While "Northampton's best fly-half" is a title akin to "Switzerland's best admiral" he is that despite it not being his position. In attack, he's looked good, threatening, and has made pretty good decisions (one nightmare game just after dad's sacking (I think vs Quins?) notwithstanding). If it wasn't for the general all-purpose cowardice, I'd be very excited about him as a player.

Puja

what's more than a little harsh? That he's yellow? That he's a poor decision maker? That I wouldn't let him play anywhere 10-15 for England? Defence alone would rule him out of those slots- if anything, his defensive frailty (to be kind) was exposed even more at 10/12 than at 15.

I may be being brutal, but someone who won't tackle in any position is a total liability.

And he looks about 14 years old. Stick a fake beard on him and send him out against the French.

Also it's supposed to be harsh, that's rather the point of test rugby.

Digby wrote:Also it's supposed to be harsh, that's rather the point of test rugby.

this too

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: Aside from being yellow, he is also a pretty poor decision maker. And when you say cover any position from 10-15, you mean could play there, and I wouldn't let him play any of them for England at this point.

I'd say that's more than a little harsh. While "Northampton's best fly-half" is a title akin to "Switzerland's best admiral" he is that despite it not being his position. In attack, he's looked good, threatening, and has made pretty good decisions (one nightmare game just after dad's sacking (I think vs Quins?) notwithstanding). If it wasn't for the general all-purpose cowardice, I'd be very excited about him as a player.

Puja

what's more than a little harsh? That he's yellow? That he's a poor decision maker? That I wouldn't let him play anywhere 10-15 for England? Defence alone would rule him out of those slots- if anything, his defensive frailty (to be kind) was exposed even more at 10/12 than at 15.

I may be being brutal, but someone who won't tackle in any position is a total liability.

The poor decision maker bit. Everything else is an absolute fair cop.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
I'd say that's more than a little harsh. While "Northampton's best fly-half" is a title akin to "Switzerland's best admiral" he is that despite it not being his position. In attack, he's looked good, threatening, and has made pretty good decisions (one nightmare game just after dad's sacking (I think vs Quins?) notwithstanding). If it wasn't for the general all-purpose cowardice, I'd be very excited about him as a player.

Puja

what's more than a little harsh? That he's yellow? That he's a poor decision maker? That I wouldn't let him play anywhere 10-15 for England? Defence alone would rule him out of those slots- if anything, his defensive frailty (to be kind) was exposed even more at 10/12 than at 15.

I may be being brutal, but someone who won't tackle in any position is a total liability.

The poor decision maker bit. Everything else is an absolute fair cop.

Puja

I'll stand by that too, esp at 15

I think Eddie has just selected Mallinder to give everyone else in the camp some light relief. If you dreamed of a 'trample partner' he'd be right up there!

Oakboy wrote:I think Eddie has just selected Mallinder to give everyone else in the camp some light relief. If you dreamed of a 'trample partner' he'd be right up there!

Did you not notice his list of characteristics? Rapid, evasive, cowardly. You might fancy him as a trample partner, but anyone who watched him "tackle" Dave Ward can tell you, he's awfully good at getting out of the way.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:I think Eddie has just selected Mallinder to give everyone else in the camp some light relief. If you dreamed of a 'trample partner' he'd be right up there!

Did you not notice his list of characteristics? Rapid, evasive, cowardly. You might fancy him as a trample partner, but anyone who watched him "tackle" Dave Ward can tell you, he's awfully good at getting out of the way.

Puja

So, the challenge is to catch him, then trample him!

fivepointer wrote:thing is with Mallinder is that lack of bottle is a pretty alarming shortcoming in someone playing a contact sport. I'm not sure how thats going to change.

The strange thing is that he has come this far with such a poor defence. If coaches have not been able to do anything about it until now, you wonder if they ever will. Ironically, a back that massive and fast should be terrorizing opponents with his physicality in both attack and defence.

Spiffy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:thing is with Mallinder is that lack of bottle is a pretty alarming shortcoming in someone playing a contact sport. I'm not sure how thats going to change.

The strange thing is that he has come this far with such a poor defence. If coaches have not been able to do anything about it until now, you wonder if they ever will. Ironically, a back that massive and fast should be terrorizing opponents with his physicality in both attack and defence.

The coach up until very recently was Daddy. I have a theory as to how he's come this far without having been told to f-off and come back when he's got a spine.

It's one reason why I'm quite pleased Eddie's going to have two weeks with him. I'm not sure Harry's going to enjoy every minute, but I suspect it'll be good for him.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

fivepointer wrote:thing is with Mallinder is that lack of bottle is a pretty alarming shortcoming in someone playing a contact sport. I'm not sure how thats going to change.

The strange thing is that he has come this far with such a poor defence. If coaches have not been able to do anything about it until now, you wonder if they ever will. Ironically, a back that massive and fast should be terrorizing opponents with his physicality in both attack and defence.

The coach up until very recently was Daddy. I have a theory as to how he's come this far without having been told to f-off and come back when he's got a spine.

It's one reason why I'm quite pleased Eddie's going to have two weeks with him. I'm not sure Harry's going to enjoy every minute, but I suspect it'll be good for him.

Puja

He’s captained England u20, previously been in an England camp and is now in an EPS (albeit for an Italy match). Coaches other than his dad must rate him.

As you said, it's incredibly frustrating because with his size and skill set he should be able to be a physically dominant 12 who can crash it up and be dominant in contact, as well as having the skill set of a 10. But he seems to think he is 5ft and 7 stone and is terrified of contact. The difference in size and enthusium in the tackle between him and Sam Olver is hilarious.

So he has body dysmorphia? That’s an interesting theory.

Adam_P wrote:As you said, it's incredibly frustrating because with his size and skill set he should be able to be a physically dominant 12 who can crash it up and be dominant in contact, as well as having the skill set of a 10. But he seems to think he is 5ft and 7 stone and is terrified of contact. The difference in size and enthusium in the tackle between him and Sam Olver is hilarious.

I've heard he has a wonky shoulder, so maybe a part of it. Whatever, he needs to get his act together.....I'm just amazed he can be picked game after game, but only participate in half of the action.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Spiffy wrote: The strange thing is that he has come this far with such a poor defence. If coaches have not been able to do anything about it until now, you wonder if they ever will. Ironically, a back that massive and fast should be terrorizing opponents with his physicality in both attack and defence.

The coach up until very recently was Daddy. I have a theory as to how he's come this far without having been told to f-off and come back when he's got a spine.

It's one reason why I'm quite pleased Eddie's going to have two weeks with him. I'm not sure Harry's going to enjoy every minute, but I suspect it'll be good for him.

Puja

He’s captained England u20, previously been in an England camp and is now in an EPS (albeit for an Italy match). Coaches other than his dad must rate him.

He's definitely a good player in most aspects of the game, so I've got no doubt of people seeing promise in him. I was thinking more his dad being his regular coach is why he's been let away with not fixing the glaring flaw in his game.

Puja