Team for Wales

[Digby]

Hartley was fine in the lineout, but neither England nor Italy put much pressure on the other's lineout. George's underthrow was the only lineout loss for us, though I wouldn't say lineout is an issue for George, not as one reasonably could with LCD

[Banquo]

No surprise with the Wiggy call up. Going for the experienced hand is understandable, but does his current form justify his selection?
From what i've seen his form is only so-so with Spencer looking sharper when he's been playing.
Very disappointing really that we've had to take a backward step in selection.

Uttterly self inflicted wound, not disappointing, annoying and dull.

[Digby]

What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

[Digby]

No surprise with the Wiggy call up. Going for the experienced hand is understandable, but does his current form justify his selection?
From what i've seen his form is only so-so with Spencer looking sharper when he's been playing.
Very disappointing really that we've had to take a backward step in selection.

Uttterly self inflicted wound, not disappointing, annoying and dull.

It's a predictable solution, but as so often (and not just under Eddie) it's a solution to a problem we didn't need to have

[Stom]

What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

I wouldn't exactly call Hartley low slung...

If Simmonds is asked to hit more rucks, he will be asked to make fewer tackles, surely...

And considering the way England line up, probably it really doesn't matter who is where except off first phase scrum/lineout ball.

[Banquo]

High tackle count, good pace, good link man... sounds like a 7 to me (shame about the over opposition ball stuff, but England don't bother with that in general for the most part).

He's very good over opposition ball.

[Banquo]

What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

If it helps, he's been notably good for the Chiefs over the ball in defence. Personally, his carries were what caught the eye, but I'm sure in your 34 minutes of viewing you'd have noticed his work rate, tackling, and indeed clearing out?

[Digby]

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

If it helps, he's been notably good for the Chiefs over the ball in defence. Personally, his carries were what caught the eye, but I'm sure in your 34 minutes of viewing you'd have noticed his work rate, tackling, and indeed clearing out?

Some good clearout work, not much being over the ball waiting to get smashed as though one were playing in an NFL scrimmage. And it's specifically the standing immovable over the ball on phase 2 on repeat basis we'd need to see. I think we should see it as I'm certainly not sold on Robshaw or Underhill at 7, but I'm waiting to see what does happen if/when it happens.

[Digby]

And I'm getting very bored of watching the Italy game now on x 0.25 and even rewatching lots of passages, it does improve commentary though

[p/d]

Hartley was fine in the lineout, but neither England nor Italy put much pressure on the other's lineout. George's underthrow was the only lineout loss for us, though I wouldn't say lineout is an issue for George, not as one reasonably could with LCD

George has the best return in the prem for line out success, so not a weakness in that department.

Give LCD targets like Itoje, Kruis, Lawes or Launch and I'm sure his throwing wouldn't be an issue. Down in Exeter he is mainly limited to the peroxide blonde. Plus he is dynamite over the ball,

[Digby]

Hartley was fine in the lineout, but neither England nor Italy put much pressure on the other's lineout. George's underthrow was the only lineout loss for us, though I wouldn't say lineout is an issue for George, not as one reasonably could with LCD

George has the best return in the prem for line out success, so not a weakness in that department.

Give LCD targets like Itoje, Kruis, Lawes or Launch and I'm sure his throwing wouldn't be an issue. Down in Exeter he is mainly limited to the peroxide blonde. Plus he is dynamite over the ball,

My hookers would be George and LCD, and I'd hope to have Taylor and Dunn pushing them. Dunn would cover George and Taylor cover LCD for me.

[Mikey Brown]

Hartley’s play has actually reached the point that I find him genuinely entertaining to watch as he meanders around with his socks down and his shirt untucked and occasionally flops on the floor, whether that be him trying to make a tackle, clearout a ruck or just have a little rest.

That shot of him (in a recent article about his fantastic leadership) at the centre of the England huddle, barking orders to his troops from the comfort of that dressing gown thing they wear after leaving the field was very apt I thought.

[Banquo]

Taffs no change to starting team, North bench.

[Digby]

Hartley’s play has actually reached the point that I find him genuinely entertaining to watch as he meanders around with his socks down and his shirt untucked and occasionally flops on the floor, whether that be him trying to make a tackle, clearout a ruck or just have a little rest.

That shot of him (in a recent article about his fantastic leadership) at the centre of the England huddle, barking orders to his troops from the comfort of that dressing gown thing they wear after leaving the field was very apt I thought.

He does quite a lot of shouting on the pitch. Could just be shouting, could be useful. He did do some good things Vs Italy, but you should in a side winning by 30 odd points at test level, and it's not his fault that there was such a bad outcome to his failure to survive a counter ruck to Youngs, and whilst it was a light Italian pack it was a very solid set piece.

Btw - still watching the match, a match in which Eddie says the scrum was our best feature, and I don't think I've seen one move coming from a Simmonds run from the base of a scrum. Simmonds will need almost to avg. 2 tries and 1 try assist a game to keep his shirt if he can't do the tight work Eddie wants, though in this case maybe he can and Eddie just don't trust him (yet) just as Eddie once didn't trust Maro

[Beasties]

The 8 running from the base of the scrum seems to be frowned upon by Eddie, bizarrely.

[Scrumhead]

Eh? Billy and Hughes both do it.

Perhaps it’s seen as more or a risk with Simmonds.

[Mikey Brown]

Yes. What if a strong wind comes along at that moment?

[Beasties]

Eh? Billy and Hughes both do it.

Perhaps it’s seen as more or a risk with Simmonds.

Not nearly as much as they both do for their clubs. I'm referring to attacking scrums btw not being forced to pick up near your own line.

[morepork]

How many tries have England scored off set moves from the scrum? That sort of thing seems to be frowned upon? You'd think someone like Watson or May chiming in from some interplay between 8 9 and 10 could do the damage. Not Brown but.

[Scrumhead]

Not that many. I don’t know if our scrum is regarded as reliably dominant enough to do so.

Most of our set moves are run off of our lineout which is generally a much stronger part of our game.

[Spiffy]

What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Simmonds seems able to do most things well. Hard to find a chink in his game. Jones can use him in many different roles. If he keeps up current form he will be an automatic England regular. Great to see a backrower with real explosive pace, never mind the other attributes.

[p/d]

Looking forward to when his brother gets a few starts for Exeter.

[Stom]

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Simmonds seems able to do most things well. Hard to find a chink in his game. Jones can use him in many different roles. If he keeps up current form he will be an automatic England regular. Great to see a backrower with real explosive pace, never mind the other attributes.

Now you see, that's a bit overboard. His tight carrying isn't amazing yet, while he's undertested over the ball. He has potential...

[Spiffy]

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Simmonds seems able to do most things well. Hard to find a chink in his game. Jones can use him in many different roles. If he keeps up current form he will be an automatic England regular. Great to see a backrower with real explosive pace, never mind the other attributes.

Now you see, that's a bit overboard. His tight carrying isn't amazing yet, while he's undertested over the ball. He has potential...

Yes .... well he's ceratainly not another Robshaw, that's for sure.

[p/d]

Wiggly will tear Wales a new one. With a mixture of explosive darts, deft hands and loud but tuneful chanting of the Bon Jovi classic Living On A Prayer