Clean(ish) slate

[Rich]

M.Vunipola
Hartley (Capt)
Williams

Itoje
Kruis

Robshaw
Simmons (Underhill if not fit)
Hughes

Care
Farrell

Daly
Te'o
Tuilagi
Solomona

Watson


When Billy V is fit, Hughes moves to blindside and Robshaw to the bench.

[Banquo]

M.Vunipola
Hartley (Capt)
Williams

Itoje
Kruis

Robshaw
Simmons (Underhill if not fit)
Hughes

Care
Farrell

Daly
Te'o
Tuilagi
Solomona

Watson


When Billy V is fit, Hughes moves to blindside and Robshaw to the bench.

Might as well put two flankers on the wing with that midfield; it'd certainly help the breakdown and fit with your Alf Ramsey philosophy.

[Scrumhead]

M.Vunipola
Hartley (Capt)
Williams

Itoje
Kruis

Robshaw
Simmons (Underhill if not fit)
Hughes

Care
Farrell

Daly
Te'o
Tuilagi
Solomona

Watson


When Billy V is fit, Hughes moves to blindside and Robshaw to the bench.

No thanks. Nothing Hughes has ever done in an England or Wasps shirt suggests he has anything like the work rate to play 6.

I’ve read a few people suggesting that Nowell is tried on the wing. I’m not totally against it, but if Daly is fit, why not just slot him in at 13? When JJ was in form it made sense to move Daly our to the wing, but JJ’s done nothing to justify his place recently (I still rate him though), so if Daly’s fit, why not do something crazy and play an actual 13 at 13?

[Beasties]

It'll be interesting to see what Dai does with Daly once Eddie's finished with him and he also has JDJ and the re-signed Bassett fit and firing. Bassett's a bit off that yet though.

[Which Tyler]

Are you suggesting that JJ and Manu aren't actual 13s?

[p/d]

Not sure Nowell on the wing is that groundbreaking a suggestion either.

[Raggs]

Would Hughes' workrate when match fit and at 6 be that much worse than Lawes?

Not sure why we'd want to drop our best lock though.

[Rich]

No thanks. Nothing Hughes has ever done in an England or Wasps shirt suggests he has anything like the work rate to play 6.

I’ve read a few people suggesting that Nowell is tried on the wing. I’m not totally against it, but if Daly is fit, why not just slot him in at 13? When JJ was in form it made sense to move Daly our to the wing, but JJ’s done nothing to justify his place recently (I still rate him though), so if Daly’s fit, why not do something crazy and play an actual 13 at 13?

One thing Jones won't tolerate is laziness - he works the players hard and I do think you need an athletic player in the back row for the tail of the line out.

Nowell's played on the wings more than a a few times. He's a good player but is he the best we have ?
Jones needs to sort out his Daly's best position - it could be at 13 but he makes a strong case for full back with his powerful kicking if Wasps would try him there.

Has everyone given up on Tuilagi then ?
He is an actual 13 afterall

[Scrumhead]

I’ve not given up on Tuilagi, but I think I’d rather see him have a proper pre-season with Tigers than take him to South Africa. He’s slowly improving with a run of games, but still a long way off being ready for test rugby IMO.

[Puja]

No thanks. Nothing Hughes has ever done in an England or Wasps shirt suggests he has anything like the work rate to play 6.

I’ve read a few people suggesting that Nowell is tried on the wing. I’m not totally against it, but if Daly is fit, why not just slot him in at 13? When JJ was in form it made sense to move Daly our to the wing, but JJ’s done nothing to justify his place recently (I still rate him though), so if Daly’s fit, why not do something crazy and play an actual 13 at 13?

One thing Jones won't tolerate is laziness - he works the players hard and I do think you need an athletic player in the back row for the tail of the line out.

Nowell's played on the wings more than a a few times. He's a good player but is he the best we have ?
Jones needs to sort out his Daly's best position - it could be at 13 but he makes a strong case for full back with his powerful kicking if Wasps would try him there.

Has everyone given up on Tuilagi then ?
He is an actual 13 afterall

Jones might not tolerate laziness, but there is such a thing as a square peg for a square hole. Why pick Hughes and get him to do the stuff he's not very good at, when you can pick Robshaw or Underhill who are better at it?

Stat from the commentary game over the weekend - that was Manu's 6th Prem game in a row, his longest appearance streak for over 5 years. No wonder he's still below par. We will do neither him not England favours by rushing him back in - let him find form with Leicester, if indeed he can, and then we'll possibly talk about England in the summer.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

No thanks. Nothing Hughes has ever done in an England or Wasps shirt suggests he has anything like the work rate to play 6.

I’ve read a few people suggesting that Nowell is tried on the wing. I’m not totally against it, but if Daly is fit, why not just slot him in at 13? When JJ was in form it made sense to move Daly our to the wing, but JJ’s done nothing to justify his place recently (I still rate him though), so if Daly’s fit, why not do something crazy and play an actual 13 at 13?

One thing Jones won't tolerate is laziness - he works the players hard and I do think you need an athletic player in the back row for the tail of the line out.

Nowell's played on the wings more than a a few times. He's a good player but is he the best we have ?
Jones needs to sort out his Daly's best position - it could be at 13 but he makes a strong case for full back with his powerful kicking if Wasps would try him there.

Has everyone given up on Tuilagi then ?
He is an actual 13 afterall

The bit about Nowell ‘on the wing’ was a typo. It was meant to be about trying him at 13 ... which should make the Daly bit make a bit more sense ...

[Spiffy]

Is Christian Wade totally out of the loop now? Probably England's best wing if you want to score tries, lightening fast, and nothing much wrong with his defence now either. As a wing I'd have him ahead of both May and Nowell. So what if he's on the small side - so was Shane Williams.
Solomona is worth another look too.
How about a back three of Watson/Wade/Solomona with Daly at 13? (though Watson made a right hames, together with Mike Brown) of tackling Scotland's Huw Jones last week.
Would love to see Eddie Jones shake up the current lot (especially in the front and back rows) but would not expect many changes.
Always like to see players selected on form, not reputation (England or any other team.)

[Digby]

I'm struggling to see what JJ is doing so wrong so many want him dropped. Some iffy passing, some mistakes in defence but they're maybe more about the system and what's happening inside him, decent on attack with too often no space. He's not stinking the place out, he's just not scoring 2-3 tries a game

If the standard is that JJ should be dropped then those safe would be Mako (just), Launchbury... and that might be it

[twitchy]

Has everyone given up on Tuilagi then ?
He is an actual 13 afterall

Quite the opposite. We want him back for the long term.He isn't even close to being ready for test rugby yet.

[Which Tyler]

I'm struggling to see what JJ is doing so wrong so many want him dropped. Some iffy passing, some mistakes in defence but they're maybe more about the system and what's happening inside him, decent on attack with too often no space. He's not stinking the place out, he's just not scoring 2-3 tries a game

If the standard is that JJ should be dropped then those safe would be Mako (just), Launchbury... and that might be it

Hear hear.
It seems that, for some people (not that many of RR) if JJs not scoring 3 tries for every 2 matches, then he's just not worth his place in the team; and there's this insistence that Eddie is looking for any excuse to drop him; when all the evidence suggests the opposite.

[p/d]

To me it is clear that Jones wants T’eo in and probably favours moving Farrell to 10. Due to his lengthy time out he is easing T’eo back in, initially at the expense of JJ, but now it is Ford.

I don’t doubt for a moment he rates JJ highly and had him pencilled in as first choice at 13

[Banquo]

To me it is clear that Jones wants T’eo in and probably favours moving Farrell to 10. Due to his lengthy time out he is easing T’eo back in, initially at the expense of JJ, but now it is Ford.

I don’t doubt for a moment he rates JJ highly and had him pencilled in as first choice at 13

Lovely to have a debate about the backs, but shouldn't the big focus be from 6-9 and carriers up front?

[Mellsblue]

I'm struggling to see what JJ is doing so wrong so many want him dropped. Some iffy passing, some mistakes in defence but they're maybe more about the system and what's happening inside him, decent on attack with too often no space. He's not stinking the place out, he's just not scoring 2-3 tries a game

If the standard is that JJ should be dropped then those safe would be Mako (just), Launchbury... and that might be it

Hear hear.
It seems that, for some people (not that many of RR) if JJs not scoring 3 tries for every 2 matches, then he's just not worth his place in the team; and there's this insistence that Eddie is looking for any excuse to drop him; when all the evidence suggests the opposite.

Thirded.

[Mellsblue]

What did Tom do that Jones liked that Ben doesn’t? Also, Ben was the slated to start in the pre-tour game last year, before injury struck and Tom took his place. I wonder why he has fallen from favour so quickly.

I think Ben was always more likely, but Eddie seems to treat the 6N and AIs as must wins, and has only allowed himself experimentation against the Argies. So an uncapped player wouldn't have got a look in unless there were no other options. Hence Wiggy...

Agreed, but was asking why Jones saw enough of them playing for Sale to have a look at them for the summer tour/money maker at HQ but not now like what he does for Sale.

I asked why Tom had leapfrogged Ben as the former has been on a training camp since Arg an latter has not.

Sorry. Thirded.

[p/d]

To me it is clear that Jones wants T’eo in and probably favours moving Farrell to 10. Due to his lengthy time out he is easing T’eo back in, initially at the expense of JJ, but now it is Ford.

I don’t doubt for a moment he rates JJ highly and had him pencilled in as first choice at 13

Lovely to have a debate about the backs, but shouldn't the big focus be from 6-9 and carriers up front?

Of course, but head against wall. Jones now points the media towards lack of leaders on the pitch (that and the pitfalls of public transport), even though he appointed 12 vice captains to support Hartley - who we were lead to believe was a magnificent leader. My guess this was a dig at Care and Ford ...............oops, discussing backs again

[TheDasher]

Is Simmonds due to be fit for the France game?

[p/d]

Is Simmonds due to be fit for the France game?

I was under the impression he was out for 2 games

[Which Tyler]

To me it is clear that Jones wants T’eo in and probably favours moving Farrell to 10. Due to his lengthy time out he is easing T’eo back in, initially at the expense of JJ, but now it is Ford.

Now that seems more fair.
The idea of switching out JJ for a big boshing centre (Manu / Te'o) and seeing how that works out has some merit; even if (IMO) it doesn't address the actual problem, which is the lack of threat from 12 (experience in the role DOES seem to be addressing this though; I just wish Farrell didn't have to do all of his learning of new things at international level).
The idea of switching JJ for the like-for-like Daly (like-for-like in attack; significant step down in defence) isn't going to change anything. JJ's problem is that he never sees the ball in space as he's a marked man, and his inside man doesn't manipulate defences, or particularly keep them honest. Putting a bosher who can cope with limited time on the ball, and make ground against the double tackle is an experiment worth trying - another jinking speedster (whether Daly, or a Marchant) is going to be in exactly the same position.
I can even see an argument for a failed-FH to be given a go at 13 to see if he can get the ball away better with that limited time/space; but that's just too many FH-types in a midfield, and really, REALLY needs a crash ball player at IC.

The suggestion that caused this tangent though, was to try the outlandish notion of a real 13 at OC, rather than the suggestions of JJ or Manu.
If this were just a debate on where to play Te'o - then IC is the only realistic answer, he might be able to play OC at club level, but he doesn't seem to have the game for it at international level - quite apart from not wanting to take our best back off the pitch to make room for him.

Is Simmonds due to be fit for the France game?

Someone somewhere said this week that he's an option for Exeter this week (as is Slade). I dunno if that means that he's fit, or 50/50, or an emergency option off the bench or what.

[p/d]

Like you WT, bit of a fan of playing a 13 at 13. Has a nice ring about it.

Watching the Scotland game you could see that JJ had little to no good ball to work with (some credit to Scotland for that - they new the threat), and once Care had eaten up most of the available space there didn't seem to be much of an opportunity for him to create anything.

He is a class act but needs a 12 who will keep the defence honest.

Plus, if Jones and co, insist on calling then bench finishers then cannot think of a better 'finisher' than Daly.(Wiggy aside, of course)

[Banquo]

I'm pretty bored of saying we need a 12 who keeps defences honest, and its now obvious we need one who has more than one setting in defence and makes their tackles.

Daly is on his way to being a top class wing, let's keep him there.

None of which addresses the massive issues facing the team up front.