Page 3 of 3
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:01 am
by twitchy
Tigersman wrote:Why is Sheilds still a thing?
He's been capped now/
Bog tier trolling combined with nothing else to talk about in rugby at the moment.
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:02 am
by Scrumhead
Oakboy wrote:Fair comment. I was suggesting that IF he does not win the RWC Jones will attract few positive reviews for what he has done for English rugby. As a 'knife wielder', I'd be inclined to condemn him for being exactly what was expected, an Australian coach with a lot of international experience. He is alright to listen to when he is winning and a bit boorish when he is not.
Ultimately, what matters is whether he has maximised the potential of this group of players. So far, I'd say he has not but I don't rate them as capable of winning the RWC even if they were better coached. That's where Jones has set himself up to be shot down, IMO. SF defeat would be par but I'd begrudge him praise for it because I've simply come to dislike him and his approach.
Is that not a little childish? So you’d banish any rational judgement simply because you ‘dislike him’?
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:03 am
by Scrumhead
twitchy wrote:Tigersman wrote:Why is Sheilds still a thing?
He's been capped now/
Bog tier trolling combined with
nothing else to talk about in rugby at the moment.
I wrote this thread to move conversation away from meaningless ‘Word Association’ ...
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:16 am
by Oakboy
Scrumhead wrote:Oakboy wrote:Fair comment. I was suggesting that IF he does not win the RWC Jones will attract few positive reviews for what he has done for English rugby. As a 'knife wielder', I'd be inclined to condemn him for being exactly what was expected, an Australian coach with a lot of international experience. He is alright to listen to when he is winning and a bit boorish when he is not.
Ultimately, what matters is whether he has maximised the potential of this group of players. So far, I'd say he has not but I don't rate them as capable of winning the RWC even if they were better coached. That's where Jones has set himself up to be shot down, IMO. SF defeat would be par but I'd begrudge him praise for it because I've simply come to dislike him and his approach.
Is that not a little childish? So you’d banish any rational judgement simply because you ‘dislike him’?
That's not what I said. 'Begrudge' implies reluctant praise. I accept that my dislike may affect my assessment of the man's performance to an extent but my judgement is that he will under-achieve. I will be prepared to admit I was wrong if he does better than I expect. Bloody hell, I've spent the last 10 years or more doing that on this board from time to time.
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:06 pm
by Puja
Scrumhead wrote:twitchy wrote:Tigersman wrote:Why is Sheilds still a thing?
He's been capped now/
Bog tier trolling combined with
nothing else to talk about in rugby at the moment.
I wrote this thread to move conversation away from meaningless ‘Word Association’ ...
And for that, we thank you.
Puja
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:12 pm
by Mellsblue
In the land of the blind, Eddie Jones is king. Comparing him to what has preceded him is a very low bar.
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:41 pm
by Scrumhead
I get your point and as I said, the AIs are pivotal - possibly make or break.
To suggest ‘rugby historians’ will find nothing to praise in his performance so far is clearly incorrect though.
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:39 pm
by Oakboy
Mellsblue wrote:In the land of the blind, Eddie Jones is king. Comparing him to what has preceded him is a very low bar.
Yes, good point. Are we getting close to the round ball saddos? 1966 is definitely the dim and distant past. 2003 is starting to feel the same.
Can Jones get as far as Southgate? In international comparative terms and with the relative available playing bases, Jones's job ought to be easier, perhaps.
Apart from pleasing us fans, there has to be a marketing factor too. Underperforming for a second successive RWC might not do the game much good on the back of football's happy clappy effort.
Re: 2019 World Cup Squad - Contenders
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:46 pm
by Oakboy
Scrumhead wrote:I get your point and as I said, the AIs are pivotal - possibly make or break.
To suggest ‘rugby historians’ will find nothing to praise in his performance so far is clearly incorrect though.
Yes, OK. I don't think I put my point well. What I meant was that Jones's overall regime would be judged on his RWC success and his overall influence on the game (style, approach, innovation etc.) would not be positive. He had a good winning run, a GS etc. But, rather than getting praised for that, I suspect he will be accused of failing to build on it. That's my opinion at this point. I agree that the AIs will be crucial.