Squad for AIs

[Stom]

How many Worcester appearances does anyone think Te'o has? I can't imagine it's a lot more than 10? Also I've not seen Williams, what is it he does that everyone is raving about? Looks like a big, strong guy but can't tell much more.

Johnny? Good timing, good hands, good lines. Solid in defense. One of only 3 English players in the Prem playing at 12 well and regularly, the others being Eastmond and Booj! (he comes with an exclamation mark, right?)

[Puja]

I see a few people above are going for Mercer over Morgan... Do you think Mercer is better than the now fit and firing Morgan?

Too small a sample size to say Morgan's back fit and firing - one game doesn't make him 2014!Morgan again. If he backs it up this weekend, the balance may start to shift.

Don't understand Ewels, Rhodes, Wiggles, Earle in particular.

Don't know enough about Hill, Stooke, Schonert.

I wouldn't pick Hartley, Shields, Underhill, Ford, Ashton on top of all that either.

Hill's a very good young player. Very powerful in the carry and tackle - probably a bit early for him to get a cap, but good to have him in the squad.

Out of interest, why not Ford? He's been in great form this season.

Puja

Thanks re Hill.

On Ford... I'm a Cipriani man all day long, I'd have him at 10 without doubt.

I hate Farrell at 12, but I think he's a bit harshly spoken about here at 10, where I don't mind him. In fact, after a shaky start to his England career, he was becoming pretty decent at 10, then got moved to 12. I'd go with Farrell at 10 with Ford coming on from the bench from this squad. I have doubts about little Georgie at the very highest level, pressure games against Ireland/SA/NZ etc.

That's fair. I think you're wrong - I think Ford's temperament is badly maligned and he's got the best decision-making in the country on the line - but I can see where you're coming from.

Puja

[Timbo]

Look, I can understand picking a foreign player if they are outright the best player in their position. There are plenty of examples where that would be the case. But if you're picking a guy who's no better than anyone else...I don't agree with that one bit.

That’s exactly what Rhodes is imo. Some of his destructive performances for Sarries against the likes of Toulon, Clermont, Munster etc have been huge. They missed him massively when he was injured last season.

[Mellsblue]

Don't understand Ewels, Rhodes, Wiggles, Earle in particular.

Don't know enough about Hill, Stooke, Schonert.

I wouldn't pick Hartley, Shields, Underhill, Ford, Ashton on top of all that either.

Hill's a very good young player. Very powerful in the carry and tackle - probably a bit early for him to get a cap, but good to have him in the squad.

Out of interest, why not Ford? He's been in great form this season.

Puja

Thanks re Hill.

On Ford... I'm a Cipriani man all day long, I'd have him at 10 without doubt.

I hate Farrell at 12, but I think he's a bit harshly spoken about here at 10, where I don't mind him. In fact, after a shaky start to his England career, he was becoming pretty decent at 10, then got moved to 12. I'd go with Farrell at 10 with Ford coming on from the bench from this squad. I have doubts about little Georgie at the very highest level, pressure games against Ireland/SA/NZ etc.

Unlike Farrell’s horror show against Ireland in the 6N when he gave away a pen in the Irish 22 at the start of the match, that ended up in a try for Ireland, and then proceeded to look flustered for the rest of the match?

[Puja]

How many Worcester appearances does anyone think Te'o has? I can't imagine it's a lot more than 10? Also I've not seen Williams, what is it he does that everyone is raving about? Looks like a big, strong guy but can't tell much more.

Johnny? Good timing, good hands, good lines. Solid in defense. One of only 3 English players in the Prem playing at 12 well and regularly, the others being Eastmond and Booj! (he comes with an exclamation mark, right?)

I like Williams, but I wouldn't say he's a must-select. Runs good lines, reasonable hands - like an upscale Brad Barritt basically. He'd be a good foil for Slade at 13. I'm more annoyed about his exclusion because the Celts have been sniffing around and we've picked Te'o on no game time.

Speaking of centres in decent form who should be there ahead of Te'o and whom the Celts are looking to poach, Marchant must be annoyed.

Puja

[Stom]

Look, I can understand picking a foreign player if they are outright the best player in their position. There are plenty of examples where that would be the case. But if you're picking a guy who's no better than anyone else...I don't agree with that one bit.

That’s exactly what Rhodes is imo. Some of his destructive performances for Sarries against the likes of Toulon, Clermont, Munster etc have been huge. They missed him massively when he was injured last season.

I'm going to have to disagree. Whenever I've seen him I've seen very little between him and any of the other potential blindsides.

[Mellsblue]

Look, I can understand picking a foreign player if they are outright the best player in their position. There are plenty of examples where that would be the case. But if you're picking a guy who's no better than anyone else...I don't agree with that one bit.

That’s exactly what Rhodes is imo. Some of his destructive performances for Sarries against the likes of Toulon, Clermont, Munster etc have been huge. They missed him massively when he was injured last season.

Rhodes is a good player but he’s yet another import and Wilson, Mercer, Armand, Ewers and Kvesic have a better body of work behind them this season.

[Stom]

How many Worcester appearances does anyone think Te'o has? I can't imagine it's a lot more than 10? Also I've not seen Williams, what is it he does that everyone is raving about? Looks like a big, strong guy but can't tell much more.

Johnny? Good timing, good hands, good lines. Solid in defense. One of only 3 English players in the Prem playing at 12 well and regularly, the others being Eastmond and Booj! (he comes with an exclamation mark, right?)

I like Williams, but I wouldn't say he's a must-select. Runs good lines, reasonable hands - like an upscale Brad Barritt basically. He'd be a good foil for Slade at 13. I'm more annoyed about his exclusion because the Celts have been sniffing around and we've picked Te'o on no game time.

Speaking of centres in decent form who should be there ahead of Te'o and whom the Celts are looking to poach, Marchant must be annoyed.

Puja

Well, yes, indeed. It is mainly because he may well be very good but the Celts...

[fivepointer]

I won't. I'm pissed. Rhodes should be nowhere near an England squad. Schonert, too.

When fit Rhodes has been the best blindside in the country for 3 seasons. One of the best in Europe.

When I've seen him, he hasn't been "the best blindside in the country", he's been an adequate blindside in a dominant team. He's no better than Armand. Or Chisholm. And he's not English in any way, shape or form.

Look, I can understand picking a foreign player if they are outright the best player in their position. There are plenty of examples where that would be the case. But if you're picking a guy who's no better than anyone else...I don't agree with that one bit.

Robshaw completely overshadowed him in the recent Quins-Saracens game. Its a massive stretch to describe him as the best blindside in the country. I'd put several players ahead of him, notably Robshaw, Wilson and Armand.
What he does have that marks him out is his ability at the line out where he can be very effective. He is a genuine target so i can see why he attracts some interest. That he can go up to 2nd row is another useful asset.
That he's not English is neither here nor there. he qualifies to play for England so can be picked.

[Mellsblue]

Booj! (he comes with an exclamation mark, right?)

Correct! Even when discussing him without mentioning his name you must finish each sentence with an exclamation mark!

[Warrior85]

From a warriors point of view it's great to see Schonert in there. Not sure why there have been a couple of negative comments, he's been in great form for 2/3 seasons now and when fit is dominant in the scrum! Hits the line hard and is solid defensively.

Ted Hill will be an England regular in the years to come, at 19 he already looks premiership standard and has played incredibly well so far...probably a bit early for him. I hope the apprentice tag means he can come and play at Worcester still rather than sitting in the stands Twickenham!

Unsurprisingly Ben Te'o has timed his race for fitness perfectly again! Hasn't played at all this season but still makes the England squad!! I really wouldn't be surprised if he's played more for England/Lions than Worcester. The sooner his wages are off our bill the better!

[Timbo]

Look, I can understand picking a foreign player if they are outright the best player in their position. There are plenty of examples where that would be the case. But if you're picking a guy who's no better than anyone else...I don't agree with that one bit.

That’s exactly what Rhodes is imo. Some of his destructive performances for Sarries against the likes of Toulon, Clermont, Munster etc have been huge. They missed him massively when he was injured last season.

Rhodes is a good player but he’s yet another import and Wilson, Mercer, Armand, Ewers and Kvesic have a better body of work behind them this season.

Even allowing for a difference in opinion over how good Rhodes is, if you’re looking for a destructive 6 who is excellent around the set piece (and continued selection of Lawes & Itoje at 6 suggests Eng are) then those blokes you’ve listed don’t compare. In basic terms Rhodes is Courtney Lawes with backrow mobility.

[Mellsblue]

That’s exactly what Rhodes is imo. Some of his destructive performances for Sarries against the likes of Toulon, Clermont, Munster etc have been huge. They missed him massively when he was injured last season.

Rhodes is a good player but he’s yet another import and Wilson, Mercer, Armand, Ewers and Kvesic have a better body of work behind them this season.

Even allowing for a difference in opinion over how good Rhodes is, if you’re looking for a destructive 6 who is excellent around the set piece (and continued selection of Lawes & Itoje at 6 suggests Eng are) then those blokes you’ve listed don’t compare. In basic terms Rhodes is Courtney Lawes with backrow mobility.

I’d disagree, I’d trust all of those mentioned other than Mercer and Digby Jnr to do that (I only included the latter as a subtle reference to Rhodes playing at 7 since he returned from injury). If that is the sort of 6 Eddie wants then it’s a volte face.

[Digby]

Rhodes brings physicality, which to date is what Eddie has sought, we don't play at pace nor with skill

[Stom]

That’s exactly what Rhodes is imo. Some of his destructive performances for Sarries against the likes of Toulon, Clermont, Munster etc have been huge. They missed him massively when he was injured last season.

Rhodes is a good player but he’s yet another import and Wilson, Mercer, Armand, Ewers and Kvesic have a better body of work behind them this season.

Even allowing for a difference in opinion over how good Rhodes is, if you’re looking for a destructive 6 who is excellent around the set piece (and continued selection of Lawes & Itoje at 6 suggests Eng are) then those blokes you’ve listed don’t compare. In basic terms Rhodes is Courtney Lawes with backrow mobility.

Armand and Shields are both very good lineout operators, and Mercer isn't bad.

And all seem to bring more mobility. Especially Mercer.

[Renniks]

How many Worcester appearances does anyone think Te'o has? I can't imagine it's a lot more than 10? Also I've not seen Williams, what is it he does that everyone is raving about? Looks like a big, strong guy but can't tell much more.

Johnny? Good timing, good hands, good lines. Solid in defense. One of only 3 English players in the Prem playing at 12 well and regularly, the others being Eastmond and Booj! (he comes with an exclamation mark, right?)

(And Mills)

[TheDasher]

Hill's a very good young player. Very powerful in the carry and tackle - probably a bit early for him to get a cap, but good to have him in the squad.

Out of interest, why not Ford? He's been in great form this season.

Puja

Thanks re Hill.

On Ford... I'm a Cipriani man all day long, I'd have him at 10 without doubt.

I hate Farrell at 12, but I think he's a bit harshly spoken about here at 10, where I don't mind him. In fact, after a shaky start to his England career, he was becoming pretty decent at 10, then got moved to 12. I'd go with Farrell at 10 with Ford coming on from the bench from this squad. I have doubts about little Georgie at the very highest level, pressure games against Ireland/SA/NZ etc.

Unlike Farrell’s horror show against Ireland in the 6N when he gave away a pen in the Irish 22 at the start of the match, that ended up in a try for Ireland, and then proceeded to look flustered for the rest of the match?

He's also played extremely well at 10 for England and Saracens countless times.

[Renniks]

Frustrating inclusions and exclusions

More concerned by the style of play we go for than the players though

Who’s going to end up at 12 and 15

Who’s going to end up in the back row

That’s really going to set us up for the AIs or not

[Mellsblue]

Thanks re Hill.

On Ford... I'm a Cipriani man all day long, I'd have him at 10 without doubt.

I hate Farrell at 12, but I think he's a bit harshly spoken about here at 10, where I don't mind him. In fact, after a shaky start to his England career, he was becoming pretty decent at 10, then got moved to 12. I'd go with Farrell at 10 with Ford coming on from the bench from this squad. I have doubts about little Georgie at the very highest level, pressure games against Ireland/SA/NZ etc.

Unlike Farrell’s horror show against Ireland in the 6N when he gave away a pen in the Irish 22 at the start of the match, that ended up in a try for Ireland, and then proceeded to look flustered for the rest of the match?

He's also played extremely well at 10 for England and Saracens countless times.

Sarries, I’ll grant you. Though it’s diffocult not to look good at 10 behind that pack, even Goode does when he plays there. That said, he had a lot of poor moments against Glasgow when the pack only had parity. Coincidence? Maybe. I would say he’s been no more than acceptable for England. There is the obvious caveat that he hasn’t played for Eng at 10 for a long time, bar the Ireland debacle, and is now a far improved player. There’s also the point that Ford has also looked very good in an Eng 10 shirt, too.

[p/d]

Sarries, I’ll grant you. Though it’s diffocult not to look good at 10 behind that pack, even Goode does when he plays there.

knowing that Brad will truck up any shyte you throw his way helps as well

[Mr Mwenda]

I just don't get why Farrell is co-captain, he was an embarassment in that role in SA. A terrible example to his team and anyone else.

[Mikey Brown]

Because Eddie has this weird idea that everyone hating us is a distraction to them and advantage for us.

[WaspInWales]

Sam Burgess is out at the moment too.

We are truly doomed.

[Puja]

I just don't get why Farrell is co-captain, he was an embarassment in that role in SA. A terrible example to his team and anyone else.

Agreed. I'm actually okay with Fazlet at 12, but him at captain is a disaster. Him talking to the referee in any capacity just sends us backwards and I've yet to see any evidence that he motivates the team.

Frankly, Fazlet being in line for the captaincy is the strongest argument I've heard for Hartley over George.

Puja

[morepork]

There is something very odd about the persistence with Farrell as captain. You have to wonder how comfortably that sits with other members of the squad.