Scotland v Ireland - 9 February 2019

[ARM]

Good team and a stronger bench than last week.

Hardie is injured btw so we're down to the bare bones in the back row - not sure who we have still standing other than Harley.

Maitland has been exceptional for us in the last couple of seasons. Little bit tough on Kinghorn but he had a couple of walk-ins at the weekend alongside a very well taken try. He'll get off the bench to make an impact this weekend and will be a mainstay of the side for the next 10 years.

[Chunks Baws]

Harley Is Hardie injured?

[Chunks Baws]

Good team and a stronger bench than last week.

Hardie is injured btw so we're down to the bare bones in the back row - not sure who we have still standing other than Harley.

Maitland has been exceptional for us in the last couple of seasons. Little bit tough on Kinghorn but he had a couple of walk-ins at the weekend alongside a very well taken try. He'll get off the bench to make an impact this weekend will be a mainstay of the side in the next 10 years.

Didn't realise Hardie was injured again.

Outside those that have been picked, Crosbie and G Graham are the last two standing.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Hardie is injured apparently - makes the Harley selection make a lot more sense. Graham was poor last week.

[Big D]

IMO Maitland has been in good form, brings others into the game, has been a good scorer for us recently and is a much better defender than Kinghorn. It is tough on BK but I do get the logic given we are going to have to defend for our lives if we are going to get anything out of this.

Seymour isn't as good a defender as either.

Kinghorn has played well at international level against Stockdale and was rock solid last week too.

[Big D]

Good team and a stronger bench than last week.

Hardie is injured btw so we're down to the bare bones in the back row - not sure who we have still standing other than Harley.

Maitland has been exceptional for us in the last couple of seasons. Little bit tough on Kinghorn but he had a couple of walk-ins at the weekend alongside a very well taken try. He'll get off the bench to make an impact this weekend will be a mainstay of the side in the next 10 years.

Didn't realise Hardie was injured again.

Outside those that have been picked, Crosbie and G Graham are the last two standing.

Both are better than Harley

[Chunks Baws]

Hardie is injured apparently - makes the Harley selection make a lot more sense. Graham was poor last week.

Bit harsh considering he hardly had any time. I don't think he stood out as particularly good or bad.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Hardie is injured apparently - makes the Harley selection make a lot more sense. Graham was poor last week.

Bit harsh considering he hardly had any time. I don't think he stood out as particularly good or bad.

Perhaps but Graham won't get much sympathy from many Scots. He'll have to churn out some consistent world class performances to get any recognition from me (not that he'll care)

[hugh_woatmeigh]

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Ireland: Kearney; Earls, Farrell, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best (capt), Furlong, Ryan, Roux, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Conan.

Replacements: Cronin, Kilcoyne, Porter, Dillane, van der Flier, Cooney, Carbery, Larmour.

[Chunks Baws]

Hardie is injured apparently - makes the Harley selection make a lot more sense. Graham was poor last week.

Bit harsh considering he hardly had any time. I don't think he stood out as particularly good or bad.

Perhaps but Graham won't get much sympathy from many Scots. He'll have to churn out some consistent world class performances to get any recognition from me (not that he'll care)

Haha if we get many more backrow injuries he's all we'll have left.

[General Zod]

Happy enough with that team. Kinghorn unlucky but pressure now back on Maitland and Seymour - let’s hope they perform as we know they can.

Hope JG fully fit and the ref is hot on their front row and O’Mahony in particular taking out the tackler before he can tackle. Can see why Harley chosen. Good maul defender with a bit of dog about him. Likely to be important come the final 20.

Need to start well and keep going. Re-starts a lot better last week - hope that continues!

[OptimisticJock]

I disagree the pressure is on Seymour and Maitland. Toonie has basically said it doesn't matter how well you play you're not getting in front of them.

[General Zod]

I disagree the pressure is on Seymour and Maitland. Toonie has basically said it doesn't matter how well you play you're not getting in front of them.

I see your point - I guess it depends on the mindset of the players themselves. If they think like you suggest, then I agree.

If they think, “well that’s me out if I don’t perform now”, it will hopefully elicit a response. Hopefully, Toony has said to each of them exactly why they are in ahead of the lad and that they have his confidence, whilst masterfully planting the seed that they need to perform at the top of their game.

[Mikey Brown]

What the actual fuck? I would have had Ashe, Hardie, Graham, Crosbie and probably a few more in there before Harley.

And what the fuck is Kinghorn meant to think? Better put the pressure on Maitland and Seymour? Better miss no tackles but make 30, and score 4 tries instead of just 3?

That's a hefty looking Ireland team. Farrell is meant to be a big old unit and good in defence isn't he?

[General Zod]

I forgot about Ashe. Is he injured as well? (Hardie is injured)

[switchskier]

Toonies mates getting a game.

I'm a lot more annoyed than I thought I would be for Kinghorn.

I think Rob Harley is a top player just not good enough for fecking IRELAND. And offers poor coverage - he can only cover 6, his ability to cover lock isn't really helpful. I would have probably started Hardie and brought one of Wilson or Strauss off the bench for impact. In Ritchie and Wilson we already have two players who can cover 6.

Hardie is on the injury list and Graham hasn't shown me much. We're down to bare bones in the backrow but if have thought Crosbie a better shout. He's stepped up every time.

[OptimisticJock]

I disagree the pressure is on Seymour and Maitland. Toonie has basically said it doesn't matter how well you play you're not getting in front of them.

I see your point - I guess it depends on the mindset of the players themselves. If they think like you suggest, then I agree.

If they think, “well that’s me out if I don’t perform now”, it will hopefully elicit a response. Hopefully, Toony has said to each of them exactly why they are in ahead of the lad and that they have his confidence, whilst masterfully planting the seed that they need to perform at the top of their game.

I get what youre trying to say but it doesn't hold true. If it was the case Seymour would be on the bench as he wasn't as good as Kinghorn. It's a complete kick in the balls for the form player.

I know this is heresy daring to speak out against Toonie but I can't buy into all the apologies

[Cameo]

I viewed the Kinghorn one as tricky. I think I'd have picked him as the form winger but can see arguments for not. Seymour is showing some form and at his peak works so well with Hogg.

[Big D]

When I see quotes like this from Townsend I really worry about how he selects teams for the "big games" and how conservative he is in selection:
He (J Gray) has been consistently outstanding for Scotland for the last three or four years. This game is set for a Jonny Gray performance of huge effort in defence and ball carrying. Together with his experience of playing at international level he was always going to come back into the team if he was fit."

So regardless of form, which has been average at best for a while, he was always coming back in. What message does that send to the other second rows, all of whom have been in better form over an extended period of time? That is clearly how he views wing so it is obviously a squad wide approach to selection.

Seymour picked because of experience, Harley picked presumably for experience, mentions experience with Gray it is very conservative. Many coaches would relish the chance to get the young guys like Kinghorn a start (Stockdale, Josh Adams, the young French guys are all examples).

As well as the ££ the SQ guys down south could understandably look north and think "I won't get a fair go at it".

[ARM]

I think its a wholly pragmatic and usually pretty sensible approach to pick your best side.

For me, the message it sends to the players (assuming they have the right attitude and if they cant accept it they shouldnt be there anyway) is to get better and demonstrate over an extended period of time against the very best opposition and the most intense pressure that you are the leading player in your position. For marginal calls, its not exactly unusual to see a coach go with the tried and trusted.

As for players down south if they dont back themselves to be better than incumbents, then there is no fckin point.

[Cameo]

It's a bit of a balance. All you are trying to do is pick whoever will play best on the day. For Gray, I don't think it is saying that much that even if he has not been on top form, you back him to play better than Toolis on any given day. For Kinghorn that is a trickier call but not an obvious one either way.

I disagree with the Kinghorn call but I don't think you can generally say Townsend has been a conservative selector. He has tightened up as we get near the WC but Ritchie and Skinner have established themselves over the last few games and there have also been a bunch of new caps.

Harley is picked because meh, what do we have. Crosbie could be something but he hasnt exactly played many top level games recently.

[whatisthejava]

On Kinghorn
HE got a hat trick but for me he is a little ball greedy, the first break he did he was clear through cut back inside and then was tackled, a man on his outside would have set the try up.

On Gray
His average form is still pretty good, i think with 20 to go he doesnt offer alot of aggression coming on so i see him more of a starter than a finisher.

On Seymore
Its difficult to tell, i think he does alot of work off the ball but when he does get near the ball he tends to do something with it (see Fiji)

[Big D]

I think its a wholly pragmatic and usually pretty sensible approach to pick your best side.

For me, the message it sends to the players (assuming they have the right attitude and if they cant accept it they shouldnt be there anyway) is to get better and demonstrate over an extended period of time against the very best opposition and the most intense pressure that you are the leading player in your position. For marginal calls, its not exactly unusual to see a coach go with the tried and trusted.

As for players down south if they dont back themselves to be better than incumbents, then there is no fckin point.

The Gray one doesn't really bother me as I think on his day he is better than Toolis, and hopefully he will be refreshed after his break. It is more the admission he is picking guys regardless of form "was always going to come back into the team". How can that be interpreted as anything other than I'm picking him regardless of others form?

In Kinghorns case, he has been better almost weekly since the last Lions tour than Seymour. Has performed well in both Euro competitions, at times single handeldy dragged his club team to wins and when given a start on the wing for Scotland been good and yet when Seymour goes through an extended bad period, is never once dropped. He isn't giving the guys who over an extended time have shown a lot of quality a chance to get a run. Ireland have done it with Stockdale, Wales with Adams and both now established in the team.

You mentioned earlier in the thread that 2 were walk ins last week. Seymours hat trick v Fiji was a walk in, simple switch 2m out and a sprint in that most wingers would finish so sometimes wingers do score run ins. Walk ins are just part of their job. His 6 tries in his last 20 caps have mostly been runs ins with a good finish v Wales and winning a race v Georgia (he also sold a try that day).

Even taking away the two walk ins (one of which was a decent finish) Kinghorn was better than Seymour last week. And that is without counting that Seymour on another day could have been penalised for a deliberate KO which is often followed with a yellow. Kinghorn has 4 tries in his 2 6N starts including away at Ireland.

What more is Kinghorn expected to do? With a couple more games together Kinghorn and Hogg could be lethal together. He made a wee mistake with that break and no pass, but the way they will learn is to put him back in that situation.

Even with all the injuries there are still better options than Harley.

[Big D]

SOB sat out the captains run. Expected to play though.