RugbyRebels

The thing is...Moon isn't really much better at the set piece...Just Genge is better in the loose but less consistent.

Genge is currently the better player AND has a lot more potential.

So, it's madness not to pick him, especially as this 6N is really a set of high-intensity pre-WC warm ups.

I haven't seen enough of Genge in the scrum to say, but has he done it at international level yet? We've seen Moon can handle himself. I just feel like with the destructive carriers we have in the pack already, wouldn't it be nice to shore up the scrum and also have someone really aggressive to bring off the bench.

Would the change in setup with Mako being replaced by a less destructive ball carrier be too much? I feel like our bench was a bit weak vs France.

Mikey Brown wrote:I haven't seen enough of Genge in the scrum to say, but has he done it at international level yet? We've seen Moon can handle himself. I just feel like with the destructive carriers we have in the pack already, wouldn't it be nice to shore up the scrum and also have someone really aggressive to bring off the bench.

Would the change in setup with Mako being replaced by a less destructive ball carrier be too much? I feel like our bench was a bit weak vs France.

Remember that all the bench had to do against France was keep us where we were...

If we can pull out a lead like that, I'd be delighted. And if we're defending a small lead, I'd rather bring on Moon, tbh. And I think we're more likely to be leading at that stage with Genge starting.

We need that punch. With these extra carrying options, we've started to look good again.

Don't think Moon is getting the credit he deserves. Looks technically excellent in the scrum and a fierce defender. Agree he doesn't have Genge's 'personality' on the pitch but he just might be a better team player.

that said its great to have the 2 options available after the loss of Mako.

Both Genge and Moon are good scrummagers, but very different styles. Moon much more technical and he’s especially effective against really big tight heads, Genge is a lot about pure power and aggression. The decision might well come down to the specific analysis they do on the Welsh scrum.

I’d like to see Genge start, because it’d be nice to see how he goes at this level in a big game. This is the logical next step for him, as he’s been dominant at club level for a while now.

For the Wales game it's surely about aggression without risk. That means starting Kruis, Youngs, Nowell and Moon ahead of Launchbury, Robson, Coka and Genge.

Cole, Robson, Cokanasiga and Brown released to play for their clubs this weekend. To me, that means that Cole and Brown that means they're definitely not involved against Wales, while Robson just needs the game time. Cokanasiga could go either way - they either want to plump up his match fitness or they're not going to use him for Wales.

Itoje now officially out of Wales - good news that he was even in considerationthough, so hopefully back for Italy.

Puja

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:When was the last time Moon and Genge played 50+ minutes in a game?

Any game?

Tigers last Prem game for Genge.
Exeter's last game of last year for Moon.

So it's been a while

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:When was the last time Moon and Genge played 50+ minutes in a game?

Any game?

Tigers last Prem game for Genge.
Exeter's last game of last year for Moon.

So it's been a while

Not really. Genge missed the last 2 HC games, while Moon has consistently been in rotation with Hepburn.

The gap from the last GP game to the Wales match is considerable, going back to last year obviously longer still. It is what it is now, and that's seemingly quite a while since either has gone 50+ minutes

Point being selection might come down rather more to whoever Eddie thinks can produce the better performance without recent games under the belt

Digby wrote:The gap from the last GP game to the Wales match is considerable, going back to last year obviously longer still. It is what it is now, and that's seemingly quite a while since either has gone 50+ minutes

Point being selection might come down rather more to whoever Eddie thinks can produce the better performance without recent games under the belt

Err... Genge went 50+ (60+ actually) the last time he was fit to be in the 23.

You're being disingenuous. Which I very much doubt is a term that you've ever been called...

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:The gap from the last GP game to the Wales match is considerable, going back to last year obviously longer still. It is what it is now, and that's seemingly quite a while since either has gone 50+ minutes

Point being selection might come down rather more to whoever Eddie thinks can produce the better performance without recent games under the belt

Err... Genge went 50+ (60+ actually) the last time he was fit to be in the 23.

You're being disingenuous. Which I very much doubt is a term that you've ever been called...

Which as per you is a good few weeks back in January, it's why I asked when it was as I was wondering if it might be a concern. Not sure why you're noting they've not played much in weeks and then seemingly taking issue with my saying it's been a while, given, and I've not checked your update on when they last played 50+ in a game, it's been a while

Genge might have played 80 the last time he was fit to do so, but if that game was in the first couple of weeks in January and we play Wales a month, even 6 weeks or so later then that to me seems a while

TheDasher wrote:I most physical, carrying-focused England team in years.

I agree about carrying, but its married with a degree of technical skill in Wilson, Curry and Kruis as you have pointed out. I actually think we have picked more ostensibly physical teams (eg with Lawtoje/Robshaw and Shields) but not as dynamic or as good at the breakdown.....nor as capable at sustaining intensity.

Puja wrote:Cole, Robson, Cokanasiga and Brown released to play for their clubs this weekend. To me, that means that Cole and Brown that means they're definitely not involved against Wales, while Robson just needs the game time. Cokanasiga could go either way - they either want to plump up his match fitness or they're not going to use him for Wales.

Itoje now officially out of Wales - good news that he was even in considerationthough, so hopefully back for Italy.

Puja

I'd be amazed if Cole wasn't in the squad v wales.

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:Cole, Robson, Cokanasiga and Brown released to play for their clubs this weekend. To me, that means that Cole and Brown that means they're definitely not involved against Wales, while Robson just needs the game time. Cokanasiga could go either way - they either want to plump up his match fitness or they're not going to use him for Wales.

Itoje now officially out of Wales - good news that he was even in considerationthough, so hopefully back for Italy.

Puja

I'd be amazed if Cole wasn't in the squad v wales.

He'd be in my squad, but not sure why he's going back to Leicester. Mind, he did miss the ERC games if memory serves, so maybe it is just about getting some game time?

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:Cole, Robson, Cokanasiga and Brown released to play for their clubs this weekend. To me, that means that Cole and Brown that means they're definitely not involved against Wales, while Robson just needs the game time. Cokanasiga could go either way - they either want to plump up his match fitness or they're not going to use him for Wales.

Itoje now officially out of Wales - good news that he was even in considerationthough, so hopefully back for Italy.

Puja

I'd be amazed if Cole wasn't in the squad v wales.

He'd be in my squad, but not sure why he's going back to Leicester. Mind, he did miss the ERC games if memory serves, so maybe it is just about getting some game time?

Puja

I don't know, it does look strange, but think he'd be a key squad member going forward- he's way better than Williams.

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: I'd be amazed if Cole wasn't in the squad v wales.

He'd be in my squad, but not sure why he's going back to Leicester. Mind, he did miss the ERC games if memory serves, so maybe it is just about getting some game time?

Puja

I don't know, it does look strange, but think he'd be a key squad member going forward- he's way better than Williams.

Not disagreeing with you on that in the slightest, but Eddie appears to see something in Crappy Harry.

Puja

I rather like Harry Williams, but then I like Francis down at Exeter too and he's not universally popular. Further Williams is used to coming off the bench rather than starting, and given his likely role with England I find that useful

It might be useful if he actually did something ...

Scrumhead wrote:It might be useful if he actually did something ...

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:It might be useful if he actually did something ...

This. Both of you.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:It might be useful if he actually did something ...

This. Both of you.

Looks like a thinly veiled request for me to commence Harry Williams a second by second analysis

To people saying Cole is better than Williams... just imagine Cole coming on and giving away a penalty in front of the sticks that loses us the game. It's more likely to be him than anyone else to be honest. Cole is more talented definitely, but in terms of what we want from someone, i.e. replacing Sinkler on 65/70 mins, Williams is bloody solid. He's also scrummaged bloody well coming on late for England.

Genge all day long over Moon. Again, one of the big things against Ireland was the aggression and physicality - we've lost Mako so let's replace him with another top ball carrier who wants to make a big statement no doubt.

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

This. Both of you.

Looks like a thinly veiled request for me to commence Harry Williams a second by second analysis

Won't take you long.

TheDasher wrote:To people saying Cole is better than Williams... just imagine Cole coming on and giving away a penalty in front of the sticks that loses us the game. It's more likely to be him than anyone else to be honest. Cole is more talented definitely, but in terms of what we want from someone, i.e. replacing Sinkler on 65/70 mins, Williams is bloody solid. He's also scrummaged bloody well coming on late for England.

Cole's form in the loose has completely turned around since he was dropped by England - it appears to have been the rocket he needed. I'm more likely to imagine Williams giving away a silly penalty, or missing a tackle, or not even getting to a tackle, or failing to clear out a ruck properly. He's like a modern day Tim Payne - okay, I guess, if we're *that* short of options, but in an ideal world not someone you'd choose to bring on.

Puja

Can only think that Williams wasnt 100% fit last week, hence Cole was in the 23.
He's a good carrier, good tackler and is terrific at clearing out people at rucks. He's far more active than Cole, who to be fair has upped his game outside the scrum.
And there was nothing wrong with Tim Payne, though i'd argue that Wiliams is far more physical and far more dynamic.
Someone who i thought might get a look in this season was Henry Thomas. His scrummaging seems to have come on a lot and he is tremendous in the loose.