RugbyRebels

You guys are fun but it does seem that you're chasing each other around the head of a logical pin to some degree.

For me the missing nuance is peer pressure and how easily led we all are by authority figures especially when young. It seems to me utterly self evident that placed on a desert island without any access to religious texts none of those would be recreated no matter how long a new society was left to develop (I believe that...). This undermines any 'truth' of organised religions for me beyond some simple messages about 'be nice' which don't need the supernatural back up.

However, had I been born in Ireland in 1980 to Irish Catholic parents rather than Essex to agnostic midlanders the chances of me ending up a Catholic would have been much greater. That's not a matter of free choice versus intrinsic unalterable belief but one of what one is exposed to as a child. This is why I have argued in the last that certain types of exposure to religion can be a form of child abuse.

In truth that's probably how I see Folau. As someone who was bought up in an extreme belief system that has fundamentally neurologically altered his brain (from what it would have been had he been brought up in a non religious environment) and made him much more open to any extreme religious views even if they don't accord with his Mormon upbringing.

Not sure if that's helped at all.. I doubt it.. But I understand that the doubt is important.

ad_tigger wrote:You guys are fun but it does seem that you're chasing each other around the head of a logical pin to some degree.

For me the missing nuance is peer pressure and how easily led we all are by authority figures especially when young. It seems to me utterly self evident that placed on a desert island without any access to religious texts none of those would be recreated no matter how long a new society was left to develop (I believe that...). This undermines any 'truth' of organised religions for me beyond some simple messages about 'be nice' which don't need the supernatural back up.

However, had I been born in Ireland in 1980 to Irish Catholic parents rather than Essex to agnostic midlanders the chances of me ending up a Catholic would have been much greater. That's not a matter of free choice versus intrinsic unalterable belief but one of what one is exposed to as a child. This is why I have argued in the last that certain types of exposure to religion can be a form of child abuse.

In truth that's probably how I see Folau. As someone who was bought up in an extreme belief system that has fundamentally neurologically altered his brain (from what it would have been had he been brought up in a non religious environment) and made him much more open to any extreme religious views even if they don't accord with his Mormon upbringing.

Not sure if that's helped at all.. I doubt it.. But I understand that the doubt is important.

Mormon is a cult. It is abuse and should be treated as such.

Stom wrote:

ad_tigger wrote:You guys are fun but it does seem that you're chasing each other around the head of a logical pin to some degree.

For me the missing nuance is peer pressure and how easily led we all are by authority figures especially when young. It seems to me utterly self evident that placed on a desert island without any access to religious texts none of those would be recreated no matter how long a new society was left to develop (I believe that...). This undermines any 'truth' of organised religions for me beyond some simple messages about 'be nice' which don't need the supernatural back up.

However, had I been born in Ireland in 1980 to Irish Catholic parents rather than Essex to agnostic midlanders the chances of me ending up a Catholic would have been much greater. That's not a matter of free choice versus intrinsic unalterable belief but one of what one is exposed to as a child. This is why I have argued in the last that certain types of exposure to religion can be a form of child abuse.

In truth that's probably how I see Folau. As someone who was bought up in an extreme belief system that has fundamentally neurologically altered his brain (from what it would have been had he been brought up in a non religious environment) and made him much more open to any extreme religious views even if they don't accord with his Mormon upbringing.

Not sure if that's helped at all.. I doubt it.. But I understand that the doubt is important.

Mormon is a cult. It is abuse and should be treated as such.

See Dawkins v Brandon Flowers on YouTube.

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:

ad_tigger wrote:You guys are fun but it does seem that you're chasing each other around the head of a logical pin to some degree.

For me the missing nuance is peer pressure and how easily led we all are by authority figures especially when young. It seems to me utterly self evident that placed on a desert island without any access to religious texts none of those would be recreated no matter how long a new society was left to develop (I believe that...). This undermines any 'truth' of organised religions for me beyond some simple messages about 'be nice' which don't need the supernatural back up.

However, had I been born in Ireland in 1980 to Irish Catholic parents rather than Essex to agnostic midlanders the chances of me ending up a Catholic would have been much greater. That's not a matter of free choice versus intrinsic unalterable belief but one of what one is exposed to as a child. This is why I have argued in the last that certain types of exposure to religion can be a form of child abuse.

In truth that's probably how I see Folau. As someone who was bought up in an extreme belief system that has fundamentally neurologically altered his brain (from what it would have been had he been brought up in a non religious environment) and made him much more open to any extreme religious views even if they don't accord with his Mormon upbringing.

Not sure if that's helped at all.. I doubt it.. But I understand that the doubt is important.

Mormon is a cult. It is abuse and should be treated as such.

See Dawkins v Brandon Flowers on YouTube.

Can you give a precis?

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:
Mormon is a cult. It is abuse and should be treated as such.

See Dawkins v Brandon Flowers on YouTube.

Can you give a precis?

Dawkins says - (having said there whilst there are some sensible values to draw from ancient texts like the bible and Quran (sp)), Mormon was originated by a charlatan and fraud and nothing sensible in there, its a 'fake'. Flowers- jaw drops, stammers, and then has to go and perform a song. Dawkins has the grace to say sorry you had no time to answer; but there was no answer in truth. Very funny.

Stom wrote:Mormon is a cult. It is abuse and should be treated as such.

How about Catholicism?

ad_tigger wrote:

Stom wrote:Mormon is a cult. It is abuse and should be treated as such.

How about Catholicism?

You can denounce Catholicism and leave the faith with a click of your fingers. Mormonism... Less so. See one of the thousands of cases where someone tried to leave.

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote: See Dawkins v Brandon Flowers on YouTube.

Can you give a precis?

Dawkins says - (having said there whilst there are some sensible values to draw from ancient texts like the bible and Quran (sp)), Mormon was originated by a charlatan and fraud and nothing sensible in there, its a 'fake'. Flowers- jaw drops, stammers, and then has to go and perform a song. Dawkins has the grace to say sorry you had no time to answer; but there was no answer in truth. Very funny.

Ah, OK. Well... Yeah. I wonder if Flowers was a Got fan... A very Westerosi name there, never noticed that before. He's definitely one of the cases where you need to separate his art and personality.