RugbyRebels

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Though I have very high hopes for Chaplin. His improvement over the last two seasons has been superb and will hopefully only get better. Best upcoming SH I’ve seen for a good while. Way too early for him yet.

I can’t say I’ve seen enough of him to have much of an opinion. He was good against Bath in the cup last month, but I don’t know what the before was like to comment on his improvement.

I’ve lost track of the difference between this thread and the ‘England going forwards’ one.

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Though I have very high hopes for Chaplin. His improvement over the last two seasons has been superb and will hopefully only get better. Best upcoming SH I’ve seen for a good while. Way too early for him yet.

He needs a spell in the Limelight

(only Galfon and Dors will get this without googling I reckon )

Probably the only two who don’t know what ‘googling’ is

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote: He needs a spell in the Limelight

(only Galfon and Dors will get this without googling I reckon )

Probably the only two who don’t know what ‘googling’ is

Limelight might sum up the final we just had more than the final we'd want

Mikey Brown wrote:I’ve lost track of the difference between this thread and the ‘England going forwards’ one.

The intention was to outline specific priorities rather than the general discussion on the other thread.

In fairness, most of the conversation here so far is focused on replacements for Ben Youngs which was one of the subjects I was hoping to cover.

Maybe we could just drop him and use whichever player is nearest to pass the ball to the fly half as we did quite often in the final. It was only when Youngs made it to the breakdown that things went wrong.

Beasties wrote:Maybe we could just drop him and use whichever player is nearest to pass the ball to the fly half as we did quite often in the final. It was only when Youngs made it to the breakdown that things went wrong.

excellent point, well made.

That’s actually something May, Nowell and Daly are quite useful at. Have them as a left and right wing/scrum-half combo so we can fit in another centre instead of Youngs.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Though I have very high hopes for Chaplin. His improvement over the last two seasons has been superb and will hopefully only get better. Best upcoming SH I’ve seen for a good while. Way too early for him yet.

I've clearly missed one - who is Chaplin?

Puja

Do all these plans to move on from Ben Youngs start with an assumption Eddie is going to change a lot of what we're trying to do on attack?

Not unless you're saying EJ deliberately tries to stifle it at the point of origin

First priority for me would be to build greater mental resilience into the group i.e. the ability to cope with Plan A not working or with going significantly behind in games. In the last two years, the greatest deficit we have made up has been 5 points in a couple of home games vs Japan and SA. In the same period we have given up good leads in games against SA (twice) and Wales away, Scotland and NZ at home.

This is an old failing for England - players conditioned to execute a plan and not being able to adapt when it doesn't work or when the opposition figure them out and come back at them with something different. It seems to me that EJ has exacerbated the problem by being a control merchant and choosing on-field lieutenants who are good at executing his wishes but not good at (or willing to try) thinking for themselves.

Until we fix that we will continue to see the same pattern - some great wins where Plan A works for 80 mins and intense disappointments when sides counter Plan A and we wilt under the pressure.

Bonzo wrote:First priority for me would be to build greater mental resilience into the group i.e. the ability to cope with Plan A not working or with going significantly behind in games. In the last two years, the greatest deficit we have made up has been 5 points in a couple of home games vs Japan and SA. In the same period we have given up good leads in games against SA (twice) and Wales away, Scotland and NZ at home.

This is an old failing for England - players conditioned to execute a plan and not being able to adapt when it doesn't work or when the opposition figure them out and come back at them with something different. It seems to me that EJ has exacerbated the problem by being a control merchant and choosing on-field lieutenants who are good at executing his wishes but not good at (or willing to try) thinking for themselves.

Until we fix that we will continue to see the same pattern - some great wins where Plan A works for 80 mins and intense disappointments when sides counter Plan A and we wilt under the pressure.

You're not wrong there and it's a reason why I'm not sold on Faz as skipper - all of those reverses from big leads happened under his stewardship and there seemed to be no on-pitch leadership to turn the tide.

Puja

Bonzo wrote:First priority for me would be to build greater mental resilience into the group i.e. the ability to cope with Plan A not working or with going significantly behind in games. In the last two years, the greatest deficit we have made up has been 5 points in a couple of home games vs Japan and SA. In the same period we have given up good leads in games against SA (twice) and Wales away, Scotland and NZ at home.

This is an old failing for England - players conditioned to execute a plan and not being able to adapt when it doesn't work or when the opposition figure them out and come back at them with something different. It seems to me that EJ has exacerbated the problem by being a control merchant and choosing on-field lieutenants who are good at executing his wishes but not good at (or willing to try) thinking for themselves.

Until we fix that we will continue to see the same pattern - some great wins where Plan A works for 80 mins and intense disappointments when sides counter Plan A and we wilt under the pressure.

Spot on ........................ and welcome

I would add that somehow England need to find room for a bit of more flair in certain positions, to develop a wider, passing game as a Plan B to the all out Power of Plan A (which worked in the semi final beautifully but failed against a team that could execute it even better in the final) - particularly centre and back row - something that Sam Simmonds might add?

This Plan B would be a style for England to develop for those occasions when injury deprives them of one or both Vunipolas and Tuillagi . Also it would mean that every other no.8 we pick isn’t asked to go against type and try to play like Billy but rather to their own strengths.

Perhaps Faz's continued selection in the face of indifferent form can be attributed to a retirement home that he and Eddie have invested in in partnership with Saracen's senior management?

jngf wrote:I would add that somehow England need to find room for a bit of more flair in certain positions, to develop a wider, passing game as a Plan B to the all out Power of Plan A (which worked in the semi final beautifully but failed against a team that could execute it even better in the final) - particularly centre and back row - something that Sam Simmonds might add?

This Plan B would be a style for England to develop for those occasions when injury deprives them of one or both Vunipolas and Tuillagi . Also it would mean that every other no.8 we pick isn’t asked to go against type and try to play like Billy but rather to their own strengths.

Do you think Tuilagi will still be involved next time round?

Bonzo wrote:First priority for me would be to build greater mental resilience into the group i.e. the ability to cope with Plan A not working or with going significantly behind in games. In the last two years, the greatest deficit we have made up has been 5 points in a couple of home games vs Japan and SA. In the same period we have given up good leads in games against SA (twice) and Wales away, Scotland and NZ at home.

This is an old failing for England - players conditioned to execute a plan and not being able to adapt when it doesn't work or when the opposition figure them out and come back at them with something different. It seems to me that EJ has exacerbated the problem by being a control merchant and choosing on-field lieutenants who are good at executing his wishes but not good at (or willing to try) thinking for themselves.

Until we fix that we will continue to see the same pattern - some great wins where Plan A works for 80 mins and intense disappointments when sides counter Plan A and we wilt under the pressure.

Yup and welcome.

Beasties wrote:

Bonzo wrote:First priority for me would be to build greater mental resilience into the group i.e. the ability to cope with Plan A not working or with going significantly behind in games. In the last two years, the greatest deficit we have made up has been 5 points in a couple of home games vs Japan and SA. In the same period we have given up good leads in games against SA (twice) and Wales away, Scotland and NZ at home.

This is an old failing for England - players conditioned to execute a plan and not being able to adapt when it doesn't work or when the opposition figure them out and come back at them with something different. It seems to me that EJ has exacerbated the problem by being a control merchant and choosing on-field lieutenants who are good at executing his wishes but not good at (or willing to try) thinking for themselves.

Until we fix that we will continue to see the same pattern - some great wins where Plan A works for 80 mins and intense disappointments when sides counter Plan A and we wilt under the pressure.

Yup and welcome.

Agree with this also. Well put!

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Though I have very high hopes for Chaplin. His improvement over the last two seasons has been superb and will hopefully only get better. Best upcoming SH I’ve seen for a good while. Way too early for him yet.

I've clearly missed one - who is Chaplin?

Puja

Charlie Chpalin, Gloiucester SH. Spent last season at Hartpury where he really grew as a player. He did represent Scotland at U20 level last season, but rumour has it England are also keen on his services and he has been in conversation with Richard Hill. He played in all the Prem Cup games at the sgtart of the season and looked very sharp. The only caveat on this one is getting him in the white shirt, but from what I hear that is a distinct possibility.

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Though I have very high hopes for Chaplin. His improvement over the last two seasons has been superb and will hopefully only get better. Best upcoming SH I’ve seen for a good while. Way too early for him yet.

I've clearly missed one - who is Chaplin?

Puja

Charlie Chpalin, Gloiucester SH. Spent last season at Hartpury where he really grew as a player. He did represent Scotland at U20 level last season, but rumour has it England are also keen on his services and he has been in conversation with Richard Hill. He played in all the Prem Cup games at the sgtart of the season and looked very sharp. The only caveat on this one is getting him in the white shirt, but from what I hear that is a distinct possibility.

Wait, his parents have the surname Chaplin and they willfully named their son Charlie? That's verging on child abuse.

Puja

His surname is Chapman. ‘Chaplin’ is his nickname.

I didn’t know he’d represented Scotland at age grade level though.

I was hoping it actually was Chpalin.

Keep those commentators on their toes.

Agreed. I’m probably more disappointed about this than the World Cup final.

Scrumhead wrote:His surname is Chapman. ‘Chaplin’ is his nickname.

I didn’t know he’d represented Scotland at age grade level though.

That would explain why googling "Chaplin scrum-half rugby" hadn't got me anywhere.

Puja