Banquo wrote:Often wondered whether Ford and Faz tend to stand a yard or two too far from Youngs (or indeed other 9's)- they perceive they might be buying time/space, but in reality a shorter but quicker and more accurate pass would be much better, even if they'd feel under more pressure.
Maybe, neither of those passes looked beyond Youngs, just needed a bit more. Also Youngs does have too much of a wind up.
Ireland looked worse than us for trying to steal a little width, which given Burt's tenure might be something Catt needs to think differently on
Banquo wrote:Often wondered whether Ford and Faz tend to stand a yard or two too far from Youngs (or indeed other 9's)- they perceive they might be buying time/space, but in reality a shorter but quicker and more accurate pass would be much better, even if they'd feel under more pressure.
Maybe, neither of those passes looked beyond Youngs, just needed a bit more. Also Youngs does have too much of a wind up.
Ireland looked worse than us for trying to steal a little width, which given Burt's tenure might be something Catt needs to think differently on
well there you go- stand closer, lose the wind up.
Banquo wrote:Often wondered whether Ford and Faz tend to stand a yard or two too far from Youngs (or indeed other 9's)- they perceive they might be buying time/space, but in reality a shorter but quicker and more accurate pass would be much better, even if they'd feel under more pressure.
Maybe, neither of those passes looked beyond Youngs, just needed a bit more. Also Youngs does have too much of a wind up.
Ireland looked worse than us for trying to steal a little width, which given Burt's tenure might be something Catt needs to think differently on
well there you go- stand closer, lose the wind up.
And/or improve skill so execution has less of a wind up
Banquo wrote:
old dog, new tricks, amazed no intervention has been staged. Its such an easy thing to coach to someone with his basic talent.
It's in the pick up mostly on those fast ball presentations. And I'll confess now I wasn't looking to see what he was doing
Or not pick up at all in fact. Get your feet right, sweep away
What? Passing from the floor? You heretic.
Joe Simpson came to the club I coach at last season to give the kids a few pointers, I ask our kids to pass from the floor if they are not planning to pick and run. I asked him bluntly why Youngs always picked up and took a few steps before delivering an oft inaccurate pass, I got a knowing wry smile in return, and a response along the lines of ‘all 9’s are different’ I got the sense that professional courtesy kept him from elaborating.
Digby wrote:
It's in the pick up mostly on those fast ball presentations. And I'll confess now I wasn't looking to see what he was doing
Or not pick up at all in fact. Get your feet right, sweep away
What? Passing from the floor? You heretic.
Joe Simpson came to the club I coach at last season to give the kids a few pointers, I ask our kids to pass from the floor if they are not planning to pick and run. I asked him bluntly why Youngs always picked up and took a few steps before delivering an oft inaccurate pass, I got a knowing wry smile in return, and a response along the lines of ‘all 9’s are different’ I got the sense that professional courtesy kept him from elaborating.
Digby wrote:
It's in the pick up mostly on those fast ball presentations. And I'll confess now I wasn't looking to see what he was doing
Or not pick up at all in fact. Get your feet right, sweep away
What? Passing from the floor? You heretic.
Joe Simpson came to the club I coach at last season to give the kids a few pointers, I ask our kids to pass from the floor if they are not planning to pick and run. I asked him bluntly why Youngs always picked up and took a few steps before delivering an oft inaccurate pass, I got a knowing wry smile in return, and a response along the lines of ‘all 9’s are different’ I got the sense that professional courtesy kept him from elaborating.
you don't always get a chance in fairness, actually it's rare you'll get a choice to pass from the floor and you'd be an idiot to try.
Banquo wrote:
Or not pick up at all in fact. Get your feet right, sweep away
What? Passing from the floor? You heretic.
Joe Simpson came to the club I coach at last season to give the kids a few pointers, I ask our kids to pass from the floor if they are not planning to pick and run. I asked him bluntly why Youngs always picked up and took a few steps before delivering an oft inaccurate pass, I got a knowing wry smile in return, and a response along the lines of ‘all 9’s are different’ I got the sense that professional courtesy kept him from elaborating.
you don't always get a chance in fairness, actually it's rare you'll get a choice to pass from the floor and you'd be an idiot to try.
You do have to read what’s in front of you for sure, but as long as referees are managing the back foot offside line correctly and you have clean ball it gives your 10 so much more time before defences are in their faces to pass directly from the floor with no wind up. Ball at back foot of your stance as soon as you arrive. I love watching 9’s play like this, done well, and quickly, it keeps defences very honest.
Gloskarlos wrote:
What? Passing from the floor? You heretic.
Joe Simpson came to the club I coach at last season to give the kids a few pointers, I ask our kids to pass from the floor if they are not planning to pick and run. I asked him bluntly why Youngs always picked up and took a few steps before delivering an oft inaccurate pass, I got a knowing wry smile in return, and a response along the lines of ‘all 9’s are different’ I got the sense that professional courtesy kept him from elaborating.
you don't always get a chance in fairness, actually it's rare you'll get a choice to pass from the floor and you'd be an idiot to try.
You do have to read what’s in front of you for sure, but as long as referees are managing the back foot offside line correctly and you have clean ball it gives your 10 so much more time before defences are in their faces to pass directly from the floor with no wind up. Ball at back foot of your stance as soon as you arrive. I love watching 9’s play like this, done well, and quickly, it keeps defences very honest.
Depends on the ruck, you might have pressure coming on you at 9 even playing quick ball quickly. And the wind up or lack of is a thing still even if you're taking a few steps back to give yourself a little space. And if you're worried about giving your 10 time you're typically much better off taking some steps back and making a good pass than rushing something messy
That completely depends on your confidence and skill set. A 9 who’s bread and butter is quick accurate ball will tend to the former, and not take retreating steps unless necessary. I’m agreeing with you in the main, easier done when forwards are giving you a super platform. But it is also a mindset.
Faf kicks at nearly every breakdown for SA it feels like, tough to compare his passing when he basically doesn't pass (not quite true I realise), though he's not a wondrous passer anyway what he's good at is acting quickly. Dupont will get targeted more if he doesn't give himself a little space, which isn't to say Youngs couldn't stand (well crouch) and deliver more often.
Mostly from that last I'm wondering why the autocorrect has gone with DuPont, du pont would be understandable (though my autocorrect wants du pong in that instance)
Going back a while Raggs sent me a video clip of Aaron Smith on passing (and other things) which I thought might be tricky to find, but actually if one simple searches for 'Aaron Smith Passing' in Youtube there it is with him discussing amongst other things having to find space a few steps back from the ruck -
It’s a good video, I think we are agreeing to various extents, the first 5 minutes he is literally on the floor, no wind up, passing from the ground hands already rotated to inflict spin in order to save time. I’ll watch the rest of it when I have a few mins
Ireland kick off to the right and just outside our 22. Kruis takes the ball but is having to really stretch backwards for it which delays him coming down and Ryan does well to get onto the ball causing Curry to spill the ball trying to take it from Kruis, scrum Ireland. The scrum does set in the remainder of the minute
Stander does well to control the ball which almost shoots out of the back of the scrum. Stander picks up and feeds Murray to the left, Murray pulls the ball back behind Aki to Conway coming off the right wing. I really thought they might have a crack at JJ in given there's a decent shortside down the Ireland right
Aki's run really only marginally blocks Youngs, Ireland need more than that from their dummy runners, Conway though is over the gainline carrying into Ford. Ireland head left again and Henshaw uses footwork to straighten up the play taking a line just inside Farrell, it's not exactly reminiscent of Jason Robinson's footwork but he at least makes the gainline before Farrell, and Underhill working across, take him down.
Stander drives into Itoje and with help from Ryan and Toner makes a good couple of metres, and it's really fast ball presentation from Stander. Sadly Murray gets his footwork wrong and picks up the ball pretty much square on so has to adjust his feet and then make the pass, Sexton receives the ball and runs at the line where he shows the ball on the inside to VdF, but either he doesn't want to make the pass of VdF has overrun the ball and Sexton takes it into contact and lays the ball back.
Kilcoyne makes a carry and then the ball is back again for Aki who makes a sort of show and go but basically runs into Kruis and then Farrell adds his weight to the tackle which drives Aki back and Ireland are having to go back on attack again. And Ireland now have 4 men over the ball and the 9 their to pass away but at least sensibly elect to attack the shortside where it's 5 on 5 and Ireland have some backs against forwards but not a lot of space to force those forwards into hard choices. Sexton doesn't move it wide and just runs into contact, but he does get both Marler and George to the deck. Ireland start to play back left or to the open side, somebody runs into Lawes and it's recycled, no losses or gains but Ireland do have a position more to the centre.
Left again from Ireland, but Itoje is really quick to rush up on put pressure on Kilcoyne and rips the ball, England get the ball to Youngs and he just wellies it upfield
May chases really well as Larmour catches inside his half inside the 5m channel, Manu doesn't chase vey hard and Manu then get's shepherded by an Irish runner coming back allowing Larmour to break outside him and inside Lawes. Farrell tries to get over the ball Ireland clear him out and somewhere in there Larmour is injured and the ref stops the game to see what' up, fair enough.
The scrum sets the ball comes in, VdF stops being a flanker and moves up alongside Furlong after ripping Marler's bind away.
Underhill joins VdF in the front row. Peyper pings England, and tells Marler the first thing was Marler adjusting his bind onto Furlong's shorts not VdF stripping his bind.
Sexton kicks to touch about 15m from our line, it's not exactly a brave kick on the distance front
Ryan wins the lineout at the front, I get having some respect for the other team's lineout defence but the is getting silly, from both sides.
Ireland start to maul, part of the maul goes down but they continue, Stander has the ball at the back, the ref tells them that's once, Murray doesn't take control, Stander pushes into the maul, the whole lot goes down and it's a scrum turnover to England.
England get the ball out of the scrum and use Manu to set another phase and I presume get some protection for Youngs to clear. Stander tries to go at the ball but is told to leave it alone, so we have the ball and the protection of the referee leading Farrell to conclude he'd better grab hold of Stander. Some impressive leg strength from Stander to make Farrell hop around like a bunny, or maybe a weasel as I was reminded of the amazing bouncing Malfoy, on another day maybe Stander gets the penalty reversed for his open palm strikes trying to free Farrell's hold, but I can't say I'm overly sympathetic to Farrell 'cause it's a needles penalty and it's the senior leadership setting a tone that needless penalties are what we want.
