How is Leicester’s squad looking ahead of the restart?

[Puja]

Moroni secured.

Yeh was thinking about the EQP especially with Montoya heavily linked for next season.
We do seem to have a good core of young English players as 2nd/3rd choices so hopefully plenty of rotation

And we've just confirmed Murimurivalu: https://www.leicestertigers.com/news/si ... alu-200720

Hopefully that's it as far as new signings are concerned. Muri's a great signing, but I do want that core of English players to actually be exposed, rather than buried under a flood of lower T1/upper T2 signings!

Puja

[Tigersman]

So I expect another Loosehead too come in potentially.
Tigers basically done.
Mamukashvili ---> Polota-Nau (Par)
Enever ----> Spencer (-EQP)
Wallace ---> Thompson (Par)
Brink ------> Kalamafoni (Par)
Henry -----> Reid (+EQP)
Scott ------> Eastmond (-EQP)
Porter -----> Thomas (+EQP)
Moroni ----> Manu (-EQP)
Nadolo ----> May (-EQP)
Van Wyk --> Holmes (Par)
Potter ----> Thompstone (Par)
Murimurivalu ---> Veainu (Par)

So down 3 on the EQP exchange

[Puja]

So I expect another Loosehead too come in potentially.
Tigers basically done.
Mamukashvili ---> Polota-Nau (Par)
Enever ----> Spencer (-EQP)
Wallace ---> Thompson (Par)
Brink ------> Kalamafoni (Par)
Henry -----> Reid (+EQP)
Scott ------> Eastmond (-EQP)
Porter -----> Thomas (+EQP)
Moroni ----> Manu (-EQP)
Nadolo ----> May (-EQP)
Van Wyk --> Holmes (Par)
Potter ----> Thompstone (Par)
Murimurivalu ---> Veainu (Par)

So down 3 on the EQP exchange

Any reason you're not counting Montoya as a done deal? It's been reported as such across several outlets.

Puja

[Tigersman]

Well rumored to be coming the season after next

[Puja]

Well rumored to be coming the season after next

As in 21/22? That's... odd.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Yeah. My understanding is that he’s due at the end of his Jags contract. Same as Moroni.

I think that means both will be available to play some part in this season.

[FKAS]

Well rumored to be coming the season after next

As in 21/22? That's... odd.

Puja

Montoya was supposed to be out of contract next summer and is a long term target. Tom Youngs is rumoured to have signed a final one year deal with the clubs, Montoya being the successor to Youngs leaving us Montoya, the Georgian and probably Kerr as the three hookers for 2021/22. The whole pandemic thing has obviously messed that up and now Montoya is looking for a contract a lot earlier. I don't know if we'll make room and bring him in earlier or if he'll do a quick spell in Japan first.

[twitchy]

[Mellsblue]

Good article. He sounds like a top bloke. Let’s hope he flourishes at Leicester.

Off topic but.....interesting point about not wanting to go to Cornish Pirates etc. The lack of competitive depth in Eng is an issue and it’ll only get worse due to RFU funding cuts and the effects of COVID.

[Tigersman]

So with Wiese coming in I reckon the squad is looking like currently.
1. Genge, Gigena, (Whitcombe)
2. Youngs, Mamukashvili, Kerr, Clare (Vanes)
3. Cole, Heyes, Leatigaga, (Dimen, Rowntree)
4. Lavanini, Green (Henderson, Chessum)
5. Enever, Wells (Martin, Manz)
6. Liebenberg, Lewis, Coghlan, (Ilione, Ashworth)
7. Taufua, Reffell, Wallace (Lavin)
8. Brink, Wiese, (Smith, Smith)
9. Youngs, White, Simmons, (JVP, Law, Edwards)
10. Ford, Henry, McPhillips (Glynn)
11. Nadolo, Potter, Williams, (Browning)
12. Scott, Hardwick
13. Moroni, Taute, Porter, (Kelly)
14. Van Wyk, Olowofela, Aspland-Robinson
15. Murimurivalu, Worth (Steward)

[Scrumhead]

Looks pretty strong and stronger still if Montoya is arriving soon as initially reported.

You’ll definitely need another senior loosehead, but the biggest issue I can see is that it’s going to be difficult for a new coach to integrate that many players in one go. You should probably use the remaining games of this season to experiment and bed the new guys in and then aim to hit the 20/21 season hard.

[FKAS]

Looks pretty strong and stronger still if Montoya is arriving soon as initially reported.

You’ll definitely need another senior loosehead, but the biggest issue I can see is that it’s going to be difficult for a new coach to integrate that many players in one go. You should probably use the remaining games of this season to experiment and bed the new guys in and then aim to hit the 20/21 season hard.

To be fair the only thing that worked last season was the scrum and Ford's kicking. Everything else needs working on so a blank canvas and start again is no bad thing. Scrum and Ford's kicking won't have changed. As you say they've got the remainder of the current season as a prolonged pre season to work on what we need for 2020/21.

[Puja]

So with Wiese coming in I reckon the squad is looking like currently.
1. Genge, Gigena, (Whitcombe)
2. Youngs, Mamukashvili, Kerr, Clare (Vanes)
3. Cole, Heyes, Leatigaga, (Dimen, Rowntree)
4. Lavanini, Green (Henderson, Chessum)
5. Enever, Wells (Martin, Manz)
6. Liebenberg, Lewis, Coghlan, (Ilione, Ashworth)
7. Taufua, Reffell, Wallace (Lavin)
8. Brink, Wiese, (Smith, Smith)
9. Youngs, White, Simmons, (JVP, Law, Edwards)
10. Ford, Henry, McPhillips (Glynn)
11. Nadolo, Potter, Williams, (Browning)
12. Scott, Hardwick
13. Moroni, Taute, Porter, (Kelly)
14. Van Wyk, Olowofela, Aspland-Robinson
15. Murimurivalu, Worth (Steward)

I'm happy with that squad except for the number of non EQP. Given where we are and the academy still priming the pumps after being effectively off for so long, it's understandable. Hopefully, Borthwick et al have their progression planned out, so in 2-3 years' time we're seeing a fair number of Gigena, Enever, Lavanini, Liebenberg, Brink, Nadolo, Moroni, Van Wyk and Murimurivalu replaced by Whitcombe, Martin, Chessum/Manz, Ilione, Smith, Browning, Kelly, Olowofela, Steward.

Puja

[FKAS]

So with Wiese coming in I reckon the squad is looking like currently.
1. Genge, Gigena, (Whitcombe)
2. Youngs, Mamukashvili, Kerr, Clare (Vanes)
3. Cole, Heyes, Leatigaga, (Dimen, Rowntree)
4. Lavanini, Green (Henderson, Chessum)
5. Enever, Wells (Martin, Manz)
6. Liebenberg, Lewis, Coghlan, (Ilione, Ashworth)
7. Taufua, Reffell, Wallace (Lavin)
8. Brink, Wiese, (Smith, Smith)
9. Youngs, White, Simmons, (JVP, Law, Edwards)
10. Ford, Henry, McPhillips (Glynn)
11. Nadolo, Potter, Williams, (Browning)
12. Scott, Hardwick
13. Moroni, Taute, Porter, (Kelly)
14. Van Wyk, Olowofela, Aspland-Robinson
15. Murimurivalu, Worth (Steward)

I'm happy with that squad except for the number of non EQP. Given where we are and the academy still priming the pumps after being effectively off for so long, it's understandable. Hopefully, Borthwick et al have their progression planned out, so in 2-3 years' time we're seeing a fair number of Gigena, Enever, Lavanini, Liebenberg, Brink, Nadolo, Moroni, Van Wyk and Murimurivalu replaced by Whitcombe, Martin, Chessum/Manz, Ilione, Smith, Browning, Kelly, Olowofela, Steward.

Puja

I presume the club want to get us back to winning ways with the option to bring one or two academy graduates at a time with a good team around them to help guide them. Most of the big prospects in the development squad are young. All the development locks, Kelly, Whitcombe, Steward and Browning are 19. Ilione is 18 and will be at university. There's time to develop them. Owolfela is already a regular around the first team squad and with two 32 year olds in the back three there will be opportunities for him and Steward going forward. Three senior centres makes a lot of opportunities for some of the younger players to get game time as well either at centre or on the wing as one of the senior centres steps into the midfield.

I too am not a big fan of how non-EQ the match day 23 will be looking going into next season but I think it's necessary because we've been rubbish for some time and losing a third of your starting line up to England for a third of every season has done nothing to help that. We will still have EQ elements to the ideal match day squad. I envisage it will look something like;

Genge, Youngs, Cole
Lavanini, Enever
Taufua, Brink, Liebenburg
Youngs, Ford
Scott, Moroni
Nadolo, Murimurivalu, Van Wyk

Mamukashvili, Leatigaga, Heyes, Wells, Reffell/Weise, White, Henry, Taute/Owolfela.

So 5 EQ in the starting fifteen, four of which are academy grads. Another 4/5 on the bench of which 3-5 are academy grads. So not bad and with a bit of luck more will kick on. Hopefully we'll have enough depth to get most of the development squad out on dual registration again, game time in the Championship is a great experience.

[Banquo]

So with Wiese coming in I reckon the squad is looking like currently.
1. Genge, Gigena, (Whitcombe)
2. Youngs, Mamukashvili, Kerr, Clare (Vanes)
3. Cole, Heyes, Leatigaga, (Dimen, Rowntree)
4. Lavanini, Green (Henderson, Chessum)
5. Enever, Wells (Martin, Manz)
6. Liebenberg, Lewis, Coghlan, (Ilione, Ashworth)
7. Taufua, Reffell, Wallace (Lavin)
8. Brink, Wiese, (Smith, Smith)
9. Youngs, White, Simmons, (JVP, Law, Edwards)
10. Ford, Henry, McPhillips (Glynn)
11. Nadolo, Potter, Williams, (Browning)
12. Scott, Hardwick
13. Moroni, Taute, Porter, (Kelly)
14. Van Wyk, Olowofela, Aspland-Robinson
15. Murimurivalu, Worth (Steward)

I'm happy with that squad except for the number of non EQP. Given where we are and the academy still priming the pumps after being effectively off for so long, it's understandable. Hopefully, Borthwick et al have their progression planned out, so in 2-3 years' time we're seeing a fair number of Gigena, Enever, Lavanini, Liebenberg, Brink, Nadolo, Moroni, Van Wyk and Murimurivalu replaced by Whitcombe, Martin, Chessum/Manz, Ilione, Smith, Browning, Kelly, Olowofela, Steward.

Puja

Feels a bit deja vu with importing tbh. But little choice given the mess that was their squad.

[twitchy]

Crazy how different tigers will look.

[fivepointer]

A matchday squad of no more than 10 EQP's.

Frankly thats dismal.

Other clubs have been - rightly - criticised for such a low number of English players in their teams.

[Raggs]

Surely they take a hit in funding for that?

[Banquo]

A matchday squad of no more than 10 EQP's.

Frankly thats dismal.

Other clubs have been - rightly - criticised for such a low number of English players in their teams.

I didn't want to be too harsh, but they don't really seem to have learned from experience

[Scrumhead]

A matchday squad of no more than 10 EQP's.

Frankly thats dismal.

Other clubs have been - rightly - criticised for such a low number of English players in their teams.

It is, but I do have some sympathy for them given that 4 of the ‘Leicester 5’ were English/EQ.

They still need a loosehead to replace Bateman so hopefully they can get someone EQ.

[Puja]

A matchday squad of no more than 10 EQP's.

Frankly thats dismal.

Other clubs have been - rightly - criticised for such a low number of English players in their teams.

I didn't want to be too harsh, but they don't really seem to have learned from experience

I think we have - previous importations of foreigners was as squad filler - we bought 'meh' in bulk and ended up utterly screwed during internationals as we lost 6 of our first team to England and had spent our salary cap filling out our second and third choice ranks. This new squad has imported lots of foreigners, but pretty much all of those we've bought are going to be starters rather than squad depth, with the aim of using the academy and lesser known EQP signings like Porter, Potter, Williams, and Henry for squad depth and building out from there. It worked as a strategy for Saracens many moons ago and, with our title-winning Academy sides the past few years, we should see the ratios change fairly quickly.

Puja

[Banquo]

A matchday squad of no more than 10 EQP's.

Frankly thats dismal.

Other clubs have been - rightly - criticised for such a low number of English players in their teams.

I didn't want to be too harsh, but they don't really seem to have learned from experience

I think we have - previous importations of foreigners was as squad filler - we bought 'meh' in bulk and ended up utterly screwed during internationals as we lost 6 of our first team to England and had spent our salary cap filling out our second and third choice ranks. This new squad has imported lots of foreigners, but pretty much all of those we've bought are going to be starters rather than squad depth, with the aim of using the academy and lesser known EQP signings like Porter, Potter, Williams, and Henry for squad depth and building out from there. It worked as a strategy for Saracens many moons ago and, with our title-winning Academy sides the past few years, we should see the ratios change fairly quickly.

Puja

So you think that you have the equivalent of overseas talent that Sarries onboarded, and the quality of EQP awaiting?

[Puja]

I didn't want to be too harsh, but they don't really seem to have learned from experience

I think we have - previous importations of foreigners was as squad filler - we bought 'meh' in bulk and ended up utterly screwed during internationals as we lost 6 of our first team to England and had spent our salary cap filling out our second and third choice ranks. This new squad has imported lots of foreigners, but pretty much all of those we've bought are going to be starters rather than squad depth, with the aim of using the academy and lesser known EQP signings like Porter, Potter, Williams, and Henry for squad depth and building out from there. It worked as a strategy for Saracens many moons ago and, with our title-winning Academy sides the past few years, we should see the ratios change fairly quickly.

Puja

So you think that you have the equivalent of overseas talent that Sarries onboarded, and the quality of EQP awaiting?

Looking at them circa 2009 after the night of the long knives, yeah, I'd say so. There are some absolute belters coming through the Leicester academy at the moment.

Puja

[Banquo]

I think we have - previous importations of foreigners was as squad filler - we bought 'meh' in bulk and ended up utterly screwed during internationals as we lost 6 of our first team to England and had spent our salary cap filling out our second and third choice ranks. This new squad has imported lots of foreigners, but pretty much all of those we've bought are going to be starters rather than squad depth, with the aim of using the academy and lesser known EQP signings like Porter, Potter, Williams, and Henry for squad depth and building out from there. It worked as a strategy for Saracens many moons ago and, with our title-winning Academy sides the past few years, we should see the ratios change fairly quickly.

Puja

So you think that you have the equivalent of overseas talent that Sarries onboarded, and the quality of EQP awaiting?

Looking at them circa 2009 after the night of the long knives, yeah, I'd say so. There are some absolute belters coming through the Leicester academy at the moment.

Puja

even the overseas quality? It is of course conditional on using the academy grads, not a feature of Tigers to date.

[Puja]

So you think that you have the equivalent of overseas talent that Sarries onboarded, and the quality of EQP awaiting?

Looking at them circa 2009 after the night of the long knives, yeah, I'd say so. There are some absolute belters coming through the Leicester academy at the moment.

Puja

even the overseas quality? It is of course conditional on using the academy grads, not a feature of Tigers to date.

Did Saracens have outstanding overseas quality in 2009? IIRC they recruited for the first team, but they weren't superstars. The likes of Smit and Bosch didn't come till later. I've found the match report from their 2009 game against South Africa and the signings they onboarded were the likes of Brits, Nieto, Gill, Botha, JBurger, Melck, Joubert, Hougaard, Tagicakibau, and Horak. None of them were heralded superstars with general public expectations of being great upon signing.

We have got better at using the academy grads under Murphy - Olowofela, Hardwick, Heyes all got significant minutes last season, with Reffell and Steward starting to see gametime too. There'll be a bit of a lag as a lot of the really good ones are still 18 and 19, so the proof will be in how Borthwick et al develop them to play in 2021 onwards.

Puja