Quins vs Wasps, 28/09 19.45

[fivepointer]

Wasps curiously off key for most of the game. They couldnt capitalise on a dominant scrum and looked a bit flat. Nerves as suggested by one of their coaches? Possibly, they certainly lacked their usual fluency. Credit Quins for a strong effort in which Evans was excellent.
Red card was decisive and titled things towards Wasps.
Really nice try by Smith, who clearly outshone his opposite number. Neither Wasps HB were near their best.

[FKAS]

What encouraged me about Umaga is he recovered. Took him a while but he settled again. Earlier this season and he'd not have got his head back in the game.

It's like I said last night, just down to experience. Got to keep his focus for the 80 minutes and cut out the unnecessary errors.

I thought both flyhalves made unnecessary errors last night. They both looked raw with bags of potential, Smith maybe slightly more polished. When you compare their performances to the composure of Simmons and his all round game at the weekend the third choice for England really should not be either on display in London last night.

[Stom]

I thought the red card was harsh. Pearce said that Robson « would have » landed on his head, but he didn’t! He put his arms down on impact. Yellow yes, but the red was not justified and changed the game unnecessarily.

While I agree the way the ref got to the decision was stupid as hell, it was the right decision. Elia let go of Robson when Robson was beyond the horizontal: that's dangerous play and worthy of a red. Impact area doesn't matter to the on field decision after that.

[Raggs]

I believe guidelines state you ignore the arm if the player is attempting to save breaking their neck. It's not true mitigation for the danger of the tackle.

[Puja]

I thought the red card was harsh. Pearce said that Robson « would have » landed on his head, but he didn’t! He put his arms down on impact. Yellow yes, but the red was not justified and changed the game unnecessarily.

You can't count the fact that he saved himself with his arm - they're judging how dangerous the action was, not how skillfully the victim avoided serious injury. Elia tipped him up and dropped him head first. I agree that the red was unnecessary and changed the game, but I blame Elia for being stupid, not the ref.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Red changed the game, no doubt, but...

If Willis isn't in the next England squad, Jones should be fired.

I don't think he was as good as he can be today, but once again he makes his presence felt. And that turnover at the end, while basically doing the splits, was pretty impressive.

What a player

He's a very impressive player and if he can just clean up his discipline a little he'll be a fixture on the international scene. Evans impressed me more though, ok not so the knock on at the end, he was turning ball over and making tackles all over the place. Proper openside performance.

Evans and Robshaw put in a serious shift each. Real nuisances at the breakdown and 28 tackles between them with only one missed. Evans also made some good interventions with the ball too.

Willis seemed a bit below par at the breakdown, but I put that down to the Quins pack ensuring he couldn't contest mostly. They managed his threat very well.

[Peej]

Agreed, I thought it was a yellow and no more.

Would Wasps have won against 15? Maybe, but they certainly wouldn't have got a BP.

[Digby]

Not always though, Maitland was tipped at the weekend and Owens just ignored it, although Owens ignoring stuff is par for the course. And this was worse than the tip on Maitland, Ella takes Robson over the horizontal, continues to drive and then drops him, three stages he could have avoided a red card at and he's just ploughed on without thinking

[Raggs]

I don't see how Robson trying to save himself should be taken as mitigation. It was an exceptionally bad tip tackle.

I thought Quins were smashing Willis hard, and I also felt that Willis may have earned a turnover or two more with a different ref, that whole game felt a little more "old interpretations" when it came to the breakdown.

[Epaminondas Pules]

It is a shit tackle, but I've seen far worse tips. I'm struggling to see the red in all honesty. Don't get me wrong, it is largely unnecessary throughout, when a good straight shot into Robson's was on, but it's not a red.

[Digby]

I think it is a red because like the high tackles if we're coming down off the fence the emphasis can reasonably go more on player safety than keeping the game about 15 Vs 15. Sure there are worse tips, but those can attract longer bans after the fact rather than this failed attempt at a tackle doesn't merit a red.

[Stom]

Red changed the game, no doubt, but...

If Willis isn't in the next England squad, Jones should be fired.

I don't think he was as good as he can be today, but once again he makes his presence felt. And that turnover at the end, while basically doing the splits, was pretty impressive.

What a player

He's a very impressive player and if he can just clean up his discipline a little he'll be a fixture on the international scene. Evans impressed me more though, ok not so the knock on at the end, he was turning ball over and making tackles all over the place. Proper openside performance.

Evans and Robshaw put in a serious shift each. Real nuisances at the breakdown and 28 tackles between them with only one missed. Evans also made some good interventions with the ball too.

Willis seemed a bit below par at the breakdown, but I put that down to the Quins pack ensuring he couldn't contest mostly. They managed his threat very well.

It was a very good performance by the pack outside of the set piece. But once Elia went off, they just got tired and stretched and Willis was suddenly everywhere. Which is another sign of a good player. He's been nullified, but he sticks at it and when the opportunities do come, he's right there ready to pounce. He just looks so good.

I was impressed with Thomas for Quins, though. Had a tough time early doors but he didn't slack at all. Head was decent, too, when he came on. Looks like there's a lot of decent English hookers arriving into the Prem.

Lamb and Young are both powderpuff at scrum time, though, jeez. We should never partner them together again, they need some ballast. And I honestly just wouldn't pick Young at all. He's a decent lineout operator, but he's incredibly lightweight. Like a cut price Borthwick, but a lot less effective at everything.

[Stom]

It is a shit tackle, but I've seen far worse tips. I'm struggling to see the red in all honesty. Don't get me wrong, it is largely unnecessary throughout, when a good straight shot into Robson's was on, but it's not a red.

I disagree for one simple thing.

The whole point of the new directives (well, not that new now) is to emphasise that it's the tackler's responsibility to bring the player to the ground. He must ensure it's safe. If he has the tackled player under control and some misfortune results in injury, it's an accident. If he's simply lifted the player then let him go...that's unsafe and worthy of punishment.

If Elia had kept hold of Robson and taken him down safely, it's not even a card. But he literally dropped him. Which would be a yellow card if it weren't for the fact he took him past the horizontal before dropping him.

That's unsafe and that's the kind of tackle it's easy to avoid, so should be punished.

[Epaminondas Pules]

He's a very impressive player and if he can just clean up his discipline a little he'll be a fixture on the international scene. Evans impressed me more though, ok not so the knock on at the end, he was turning ball over and making tackles all over the place. Proper openside performance.

Evans and Robshaw put in a serious shift each. Real nuisances at the breakdown and 28 tackles between them with only one missed. Evans also made some good interventions with the ball too.

Willis seemed a bit below par at the breakdown, but I put that down to the Quins pack ensuring he couldn't contest mostly. They managed his threat very well.

It was a very good performance by the pack outside of the set piece. But once Elia went off, they just got tired and stretched and Willis was suddenly everywhere. Which is another sign of a good player. He's been nullified, but he sticks at it and when the opportunities do come, he's right there ready to pounce. He just looks so good.

I was impressed with Thomas for Quins, though. Had a tough time early doors but he didn't slack at all. Head was decent, too, when he came on. Looks like there's a lot of decent English hookers arriving into the Prem.

Lamb and Young are both powderpuff at scrum time, though, jeez. We should never partner them together again, they need some ballast. And I honestly just wouldn't pick Young at all. He's a decent lineout operator, but he's incredibly lightweight. Like a cut price Borthwick, but a lot less effective at everything.

When you combine the tight five of both packs it was always going to be a struggle.

Head did well, especially considering the makeup of the pack. There's Sam Riley behind him too, who looks very good.

[Epaminondas Pules]

It is a shit tackle, but I've seen far worse tips. I'm struggling to see the red in all honesty. Don't get me wrong, it is largely unnecessary throughout, when a good straight shot into Robson's was on, but it's not a red.

I disagree for one simple thing.

The whole point of the new directives (well, not that new now) is to emphasise that it's the tackler's responsibility to bring the player to the ground. He must ensure it's safe. If he has the tackled player under control and some misfortune results in injury, it's an accident. If he's simply lifted the player then let him go...that's unsafe and worthy of punishment.

If Elia had kept hold of Robson and taken him down safely, it's not even a card. But he literally dropped him. Which would be a yellow card if it weren't for the fact he took him past the horizontal before dropping him.

That's unsafe and that's the kind of tackle it's easy to avoid, so should be punished.

Agree it should be punished, but for me it is a yellow.

[Stom]

Evans and Robshaw put in a serious shift each. Real nuisances at the breakdown and 28 tackles between them with only one missed. Evans also made some good interventions with the ball too.

Willis seemed a bit below par at the breakdown, but I put that down to the Quins pack ensuring he couldn't contest mostly. They managed his threat very well.

It was a very good performance by the pack outside of the set piece. But once Elia went off, they just got tired and stretched and Willis was suddenly everywhere. Which is another sign of a good player. He's been nullified, but he sticks at it and when the opportunities do come, he's right there ready to pounce. He just looks so good.

I was impressed with Thomas for Quins, though. Had a tough time early doors but he didn't slack at all. Head was decent, too, when he came on. Looks like there's a lot of decent English hookers arriving into the Prem.

Lamb and Young are both powderpuff at scrum time, though, jeez. We should never partner them together again, they need some ballast. And I honestly just wouldn't pick Young at all. He's a decent lineout operator, but he's incredibly lightweight. Like a cut price Borthwick, but a lot less effective at everything.

When you combine the tight five of both packs it was always going to be a struggle.

Head did well, especially considering the makeup of the pack. There's Sam Riley behind him too, who looks very good.

Musk is good, too. In a couple of seasons we'll have a very good selection at hooker.

[Epaminondas Pules]

It was a very good performance by the pack outside of the set piece. But once Elia went off, they just got tired and stretched and Willis was suddenly everywhere. Which is another sign of a good player. He's been nullified, but he sticks at it and when the opportunities do come, he's right there ready to pounce. He just looks so good.

I was impressed with Thomas for Quins, though. Had a tough time early doors but he didn't slack at all. Head was decent, too, when he came on. Looks like there's a lot of decent English hookers arriving into the Prem.

Lamb and Young are both powderpuff at scrum time, though, jeez. We should never partner them together again, they need some ballast. And I honestly just wouldn't pick Young at all. He's a decent lineout operator, but he's incredibly lightweight. Like a cut price Borthwick, but a lot less effective at everything.

When you combine the tight five of both packs it was always going to be a struggle.

Head did well, especially considering the makeup of the pack. There's Sam Riley behind him too, who looks very good.

Musk is good, too. In a couple of seasons we'll have a very good selection at hooker.

And the likes of Fin Baxter (proper excited by Fin) alongside in the front row. Tricky part is always bringing them through and managing the transition into adult rugby.

[Raggs]

Elia gets 3 weeks ban, with the panel agreeing that Robson using his arm to stop himself from landing on his head/neck, does not act as mitigation.

[Scrumhead]

When you combine the tight five of both packs it was always going to be a struggle.

Head did well, especially considering the makeup of the pack. There's Sam Riley behind him too, who looks very good.

Musk is good, too. In a couple of seasons we'll have a very good selection at hooker.

And the likes of Fin Baxter (proper excited by Fin) alongside in the front row. Tricky part is always bringing them through and managing the transition into adult rugby.

I’ve heard good things about both Riley and Baxter but I can’t say I’ve ever seen either play.

Hopefully Hammond and Tizard will break through next season and then the likes of Riley, Baxter and Lynagh not far behind.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Musk is good, too. In a couple of seasons we'll have a very good selection at hooker.

And the likes of Fin Baxter (proper excited by Fin) alongside in the front row. Tricky part is always bringing them through and managing the transition into adult rugby.

I’ve heard good things about both Riley and Baxter but I can’t say I’ve ever seen either play.

Hopefully Hammond and Tizard will break through next season and then the likes of Riley, Baxter and Lynagh not far behind.

Baxter was exceptional for Wellington and England U18s. Formed an awesome front row with Phil Brantingham at loosehead and him at tighthead. Showed some great leadership qualities both for club and country. Both looked technically good in the scrum.

Riley would be a name on everybody's lips, if it wasn't for the fact that he's the same year group as a certain Alfie Barbeary. The two of them were a hell of a combination for England U18's and stood out a mile from their peers. Two seriously good hookers in that year group.

[Epaminondas Pules]

And then there is Cassius Cleaves, who is raw as a hookers arse, but shit me he's got talent. Final year of school, but he looks goooooood.