RugbyRebels

Soapy wrote: I'd give Graham the 8 jersey and start Taylor at 12. Maitland always ahead of Kinghorn for me. Will need to be VDW or Lang on the bench to cover Russell unless GT wants to risk Hogg playing 10 for the majority of the game.

Or could Redpath be cover for 10 as well as 12 and 13?

Mikey Brown wrote: Has D’Arcy Graham been in good form recently? I really rate him but Maitland is generally very reliable.

DGs recently been on a break for "personal reasons". Before that he looked really jaded. So he's going in to the 6N pretty undercooked.

ARM wrote:Redpath! Welcome home, son, welcome home.

Rest of it - shame about hookers, but otherwise who is missing?

Is Jamie Bhatti playing at all at Bath? Saying that, he was in the squads previously without much game time. I am yet to be convinced by Kebble and I think Bhatti is often a better replacement for Sutherland than Kebble is

Whoever persuaded Redpath to sign up did a great job. Was sure that he'd pick England, if only for the earning potential. With Johnson's recent lack of great form he might already be our best option at 12. I just hope that this isn't one of those scenarios where Jones now offers him some England assurances and he changes his mind.

I’d start Graham at 8 and Redpath at 12, Harris at 13. Jones on bench, but do wonder if he could be wing cover too!

It's interesting to see Graham playing 8 more but does he actually make the kind of yards that we've all felt needed there since... Beattie for that one 6 nations? I think Fagerson has done a pretty thankless task of turning quite a lot of shit ball into moderately good, without making any barnstorming runs. Does Graham offer more than that with the ball? We certainly benefit from people who can up the aggression and intensity at the right moments, which may well be his way in.

stevedog1980 wrote:

ARM wrote:Redpath! Welcome home, son, welcome home.

Rest of it - shame about hookers, but otherwise who is missing?

Is Jamie Bhatti playing at all at Bath? Saying that, he was in the squads previously without much game time. I am yet to be convinced by Kebble and I think Bhatti is often a better replacement for Sutherland than Kebble is

I don't think Bath have had a non-COVID-cancelled game since he signed!

switchskier wrote:Whoever persuaded Redpath to sign up did a great job. Was sure that he'd pick England, if only for the earning potential. With Johnson's recent lack of great form he might already be our best option at 12. I just hope that this isn't one of those scenarios where Jones now offers him some England assurances and he changes his mind.

Oh that reminds me, you can have Vellacott back now - we've decided we're not interested after all.

I think it's a sensible decision by the young lad - England are either going to play a big 12 or Farrell for the next gods-knows how many years, so I think his opportunities would have been limited in a white shirt, whereas there's a decent chance he'll start straight away for your lot given Johnson's falling off. Like losing Jonny Williams, I think we will regret letting him go; there's a very decent player to be developed there.

Puja

Puja wrote:
I think it's a sensible decision by the young lad - England are either going to play a big 12 or Farrell for the next gods-knows how many years, so I think his opportunities would have been limited in a white shirt,

spot on

I'm on the same page as most of you so I'll just comment on the contentious calls:

Kinghorn or Maitland - I'm in the Kinghorn camp. I think he has generally played well for Scotland and his mistakes happen less often on the wing where he is most likely needed. I'm kind of bored with Maitland. I agree he is solid but it seems to be rarer and rarer that he does something unexpectedly good. Like, he rarely drops a high ball that he should where he's not under big pressure but he rarely takes ones where you think "great take". Kinghorn still has a bit of something.

Centres - how things have changed! Not seen much of redpath but would be excited if he starts (never fully got the Taylor love in but he's probably the sensible decision. Would love Jones to start at 13 but that won't (and shouldn't) happen until he has some game time there. Hopefully he benches though.

8 - I'm a Fagerson fan and always have been. He's not a monster but nor is Graham. In the absence of that option, Fagerson Is a hard worker who carries well. Graham can bench.

Second row - I feel like I have a blind spot with Skinner coming from rarely seeing him actually play. Sometimes I find myself convinced he is the perfect athletic second row cover who can fill in in the backrow. The next, I wonder if I've ever seen him do anything particularly good and why he doesn't seem to start big games for Exeter (when I'm watching at least). Is he the new Duncan Taylor?

I see what you mean with Skinner and Taylor.

Kinghorn does seem to be a lot better for Scotland on the wing than he is anywhere else, but I got the impression he'd had any remaining attacking threat beaten out of him at Edinburgh. Much like Taylor you never really know what you're going to get from him, from moment to moment. I imagine we'll see Taylor continue at 12.

Expecting something like this I guess?

Sutherland, Turner, Fagerson, Cummings, Gray, Ritchie, Watson, Fagerson
Price, Russell, VDM, Taylor, Harris, A. Winger, Hogg (c)

Subs: Stewart, Kebble, Nel, Gilchrist/Gray, Thomson, Steele, VDW, Jones/A. Winger

Steele's selection seems a strange one. A stint off the bench on the wing vs Wales and then dropped behind Horne and SHC, now one of only 2 SH options in the squad.

Have been reading elsewhere that Skinner and SHC’s omission may also be down to COVID rules (they would be up and down to Exeter a few times between now and the wales match). Am happy enough with the squad anyway - hope they’re all match fit.

Just thinking about Harris - I quite like him and feel he has been a big part of our improved defence. If Redpath is going to play a Pete Horne type role at 12 for Finn, I think Harris will bring balance to a set of otherwise more naturally attacking players in every other position across the backs. Happy if Harris starts, but would want Jones on the bench as cover for centres, FB ... and wing! If the opposition get a man sent off or we are chasing the game, we can start to think about swapping Harris off, but even then he’s still a good option for certain set plays.

If we could get over the line v England, the tournament certainly opens up a wee bit...

AAARGH! STOP IT, ZOD! STOP IT NOW!

General Zod wrote:Have been reading elsewhere that Skinner and SHC’s omission may also be down to COVID rules (they would be up and down to Exeter a few times between now and the wales match). Am happy enough with the squad anyway - hope they’re all match fit.

Just thinking about Harris - I quite like him and feel he has been a big part of our improved defence. If Redpath is going to play a Pete Horne type role at 12 for Finn, I think Harris will bring balance to a set of otherwise more naturally attacking players in every other position across the backs. Happy if Harris starts, but would want Jones on the bench as cover for centres, FB ... and wing! If the opposition get a man sent off or we are chasing the game, we can start to think about swapping Harris off, but even then he’s still a good option for certain set plays.

If we could get over the line v England, the tournament certainly opens up a wee bit...

AAARGH! STOP IT, ZOD! STOP IT NOW!

I've seen as well that SHC, Skinner and Hutchinson aren't included because of COVID outbreaks at their clubs. But that doesn't make sense if Gray and Hogg are involved unless they've tested positive at some point, are close contacts of someone who has or, as you say, are expected to travel back and forth more.

And yes, stop it. Remember that Redpath was nowhere near starting for England.

This also seems of interest.

Mellsblue wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ssion=true

‘Matt Proudfoot, has tested positive for the virus while Jones and his attack coach, Simon Amor, have been identified as close contacts and must also isolate until 27 January.
With the 2021 Six Nations championship scheduled to kick off on 6 February, it means all three coaches will have to miss the start of England’s training camp next week, due to be held at St George’s Park near Burton. With the RFU having already announced this week that the skills coach Jason Ryles is staying in Australia and will not be working during the Six Nations, it leaves John Mitchell as the only original member of the coaching panel currently available for active on-site duty.‘

Mikey Brown wrote:I see what you mean with Skinner and Taylor.

Kinghorn does seem to be a lot better for Scotland on the wing than he is anywhere else, but I got the impression he'd had any remaining attacking threat beaten out of him at Edinburgh. Much like Taylor you never really know what you're going to get from him, from moment to moment. I imagine we'll see Taylor continue at 12.

Expecting something like this I guess?

Sutherland, Turner, Fagerson, Cummings, Gray, Ritchie, Watson, Fagerson
Price, Russell, VDM, Taylor, Harris, A. Winger, Hogg (c)

Subs: Stewart, Kebble, Nel, Gilchrist/Gray, Thomson, Steele, VDW, Jones/A. Winger

Steele's selection seems a strange one. A stint off the bench on the wing vs Wales and then dropped behind Horne and SHC, now one of only 2 SH options in the squad.

It is a big risk starting Taylor or Redpath. Taylor has hardly played since the last internationals and Redpath is very young. I'd be very tempted to start Redpath. Our attacking game needs a spark, and to be fair there are reasons why it hasn't been but I think this is as good a time as any to be bold about it.

Yeah, I would go for Redpath to be honest (along with Graham at 20 and two outside backs instead of VDW on the bench) because fuck it, the balance is good. It might come off.

The pack have actually been reasonably good at supplying/retaining ball, if not knocking people backwards with enough regularity (another area I really want a Graham, Thomson or Crosbie to show something) but we've been so absolutely inept behind the ruck.

There was a lot of work to be done to either challenge rushing defenders initially or nail that quick pass to the corner for Hogg to work with. Most of the time seemed to be not quite doing either. Russell really is the key here, and I just like the idea of that creative pairing.

I think Russell, Redpath, Harris and Hogg with DVDM and Graham would be exciting if they really focus on playing like the first 20 of the Ireland game

Yep, sort of convinced myself Russel - Redpath - Harris will be a grand-slamming, Lions test trio at this point.

We're losing a lot in terms of leadership and experience with both Brown and Rambo out. Turner is an exciting player but still worries me. Are his mistakes actually any more regular/disastrous than the other two?

Mikey Brown wrote:Yep, sort of convinced myself Russel - Redpath - Harris will be a grand-slamming, Lions test trio at this point.

Difficult to disagree there.

Turner worries me a little too - just in terms of his enthusiasm might turn into a yellow at some point. However, I also get the feeling that if you take that away from him, he’s half the player.

He also needs to spend the next two weeks practicing his darts every day.

General Zod wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Yep, sort of convinced myself Russel - Redpath - Harris will be a grand-slamming, Lions test trio at this point.

Difficult to disagree there.

Turner worries me a little too - just in terms of his enthusiasm might turn into a yellow at some point. However, I also get the feeling that if you take that away from him, he’s half the player.

He also needs to spend the next two weeks practicing his darts every day.

Turner does get himself pinged quite a lot. But then Brown has the odd incredibly daft yellow in him too. Who was it that he got himself ten minutes against recently for blocking the chaser in a hilariously unsubtle manner? Or the tackle on Daly in 2017 that could easily have been red?

In many ways Turner's strengths (carrying, hitting hard in defense) aren't that dissimilar to Brown and McInallys, and neither are his weaknesses.

switchskier wrote:

General Zod wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Yep, sort of convinced myself Russel - Redpath - Harris will be a grand-slamming, Lions test trio at this point.

Difficult to disagree there.

Turner worries me a little too - just in terms of his enthusiasm might turn into a yellow at some point. However, I also get the feeling that if you take that away from him, he’s half the player.

He also needs to spend the next two weeks practicing his darts every day.

Turner does get himself pinged quite a lot. But then Brown has the odd incredibly daft yellow in him too. Who was it that he got himself ten minutes against recently for blocking the chaser in a hilariously unsubtle manner? Or the tackle on Daly in 2017 that could easily have been red?

In many ways Turner's strengths (carrying, hitting hard in defense) aren't that dissimilar to Brown and McInallys, and neither are his weaknesses.

Fair point. Lions starter, imho.

General Zod wrote:

Turner worries me a little too - just in terms of his enthusiasm might turn into a yellow at some point. However, I also get the feeling that if you take that away from him, he’s half the player.

He also needs to spend the next two weeks practicing his darts every day.

I think his darts are better than McInally's. He tends to overthrow just off the bench, which isn't an uncommon thing for hookers. He can overdo it, but he has an edge most of our players don't have, something we'd be singing the praises of if he was a kiwi or a bok. We don't want to be nice to play against. Rambo is a top player, but the other two are definitely in the not nice to play against category, especially Turner

I thought McInally had been better with his throwing recently, or more so than Brown anyway, but I have no idea what the stats say? I’m never confident at a Scotland lineout though I’ll say that.

England squad

Backs: Elliot Daly, Owen Farrell, George Ford, Ollie Lawrence, Max Malins, Jonny May, Paolo Odogwu, Harry Randall, Dan Robson, Henry Slade, Anthony Watson, Ben Youngs.

Forwards: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Tom Curry, Ben Earl, Ellis Genge, Jamie George, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Courtney Lawes, Tom West, Beno Obano, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill, Billy Vunipola, Harry Williams, Mark Wilson.

Probable team

Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Slade
Watson
Daly

Genge
George
Williams
Itoje
Lawes
Underhill
Curry
Vanipolo

septic 9 wrote:

General Zod wrote:

Turner worries me a little too - just in terms of his enthusiasm might turn into a yellow at some point. However, I also get the feeling that if you take that away from him, he’s half the player.

He also needs to spend the next two weeks practicing his darts every day.

I think his darts are better than McInally's. He tends to overthrow just off the bench, which isn't an uncommon thing for hookers. He can overdo it, but he has an edge most of our players don't have, something we'd be singing the praises of if he was a kiwi or a bok. We don't want to be nice to play against. Rambo is a top player, but the other two are definitely in the not nice to play against category, especially Turner

I am not sure we have any in the "not nice to play against" category at international level. Turner is probably closest but w3e possibly haven't had any in that category since Hines or Stroker. The likes of Brown, Wilson and before them Hamilton try but are the wannabe tough guys who more often than not just bleed stupid penalties away rather than impact games at that level.

The likes of Gilchrist, who has the size to be a bugger, and Rambo etc just don't have it in them.

Mikey Brown wrote:I thought McInally had been better with his throwing recently, or more so than Brown anyway, but I have no idea what the stats say? I’m never confident at a Scotland lineout though I’ll say that.

I think part of it is the calling. It always seems to be 7 men, even when we’re getting beaten at 2, and when it’s windy as fvck, we throw to the back more than we should. Also, I can’t remember which autumn game it was, but someone made a call to 5 or 6 where out spirited 6-footer was up against an opposition giant. Attacking ball lost, and we're on the back foot when we could have done with a spell of possession in the oppo 22.

Still, it’s not all bad. Bring back the dunbar line out v Ireland! The game seemed so predictable in autumn, so changing it up a bit could open the door if we execute it right.

Would still love to see a wall penalty!