Training Squad named ...

[TheNomad]

Freeman starting for Saints, and too old for the U20s

Don't get me wrong, they're good players, but I think the likes of Bassett, Parton and Radwan are (for different reasons) quite lucky to get in ahead of him - I think his all round game is excellent, and has (in my opinion) a higher ceiling than any of them

Hasn't Freeman confirmed he's off to have some minor knee surgery at the end go the season?

Radwan I think has the kind of explosive pace and the score from anywhere to really make something happen at international level. His skill set looks ok at Prem level his biggest problem seems to be staying fit. I think if he stays fit he could get a good few years in England colours before he's overtaken by younger options. May isn't getting any younger and Eddie likes having a pace man on that wing and Radwan is rapid, his acceleration is particularly alarming of you have to defend against him.

He scored another exceptional try against Quins with sizzling gas and footwork (and later overhauled the pedestrian Marchant who was clean through) with no effort.

Was a lovely try. For the record, the pedestrian player he caught was Morris.

Marchant is anything but pedestrian

[Spiffy]

Hasn't Freeman confirmed he's off to have some minor knee surgery at the end go the season?

Radwan I think has the kind of explosive pace and the score from anywhere to really make something happen at international level. His skill set looks ok at Prem level his biggest problem seems to be staying fit. I think if he stays fit he could get a good few years in England colours before he's overtaken by younger options. May isn't getting any younger and Eddie likes having a pace man on that wing and Radwan is rapid, his acceleration is particularly alarming of you have to defend against him.

He scored another exceptional try against Quins with sizzling gas and footwork (and later overhauled the pedestrian Marchant who was clean through) with no effort.

Was a lovely try. For the record, the pedestrian player he caught was Morris.

Marchant is anything but pedestrian

Oops - Yes. You are right about Morris (who did look pedestrian.)

But my assessment of Marchant's pace was not based on this clip. I formed it on watching a few of his games in New Zealand rugby last season when he had a sabbatical down there. He seemed to be run down quite frequently by opponents and just looked a tad off the gas. Perhaps it is less important in the centre than wing, but do I believe he lacks genuine pace. As a midfielder he is still faster than Farrell, mind, so if that's the bar, he's OK. He is a grand all-round player in other aspects of his game.

[TheNomad]

Maybe you’re right. He never struck me as having searing pace, but I always thought he was pretty quick. Maybe not. Good player though like you say.

He’s another one I’ve wondered about trying at 12 given the breadth of his skill set

[FKAS]

Marchant has a good step and acceleration. Top end pace isn't that high but because of what he does have he breaks the line regularly. Seems the natural successor to Joseph for England.

[TheNomad]

Marchant has a good step and acceleration. Top end pace isn't that high but because of what he does have he breaks the line regularly. Seems the natural successor to Joseph for England.

I'd agree with that, albeit seeing as Joseph doesn't play that much now, I'd like to hope he was more than that.

It strikes me that other nations seem more comfortable trying 13s at 12 - seeing as it's a problem position for us, I don't see why we shouldn't in certain instances

[Scrumhead]

Marchant has a good step and acceleration. Top end pace isn't that high but because of what he does have he breaks the line regularly. Seems the natural successor to Joseph for England.

Yes - Marchant should be England’s next 13. I’m surprised that he’s not more widely rated as he is such a complete 13. He doesn’t have Jonny May levels of pace, but he’s plenty fast enough. I’d be interested to see how he ranks against other 13s from a pace POV. I’d imagine definitely at the upper end.

As for trying him at 12, it’s not the worst idea. He kind of reminds me of Gael Fickou in both size and playing style and he seems to swap between the two without much difficulty. The only trouble is, he is unlikely to play 12 for Quins when his partnership with Esterhuizen is one of our main weapons.

[TheNomad]

The only trouble is, he is unlikely to play 12 for Quins when his partnership with Esterhuizen is one of our main weapons.

Indeed. It also highlights how commonly an effective balance at 12/13 is to have someone who can effectively carry in traffic at 12

We just don't seem to have many of them at all, let alone ones who can also pick a pass and help with the running of the game (i.e. a 2nd 5/8 type).

Speculating, but I would guess we turn most of them into wingers or back rowers as kids.

[Gloskarlos]

Singleton has withdrawn due to having to isolate, been replaced by Gabriel Oghre

[Scrumhead]

McGuigan is massively hard done by

[fivepointer]

He is.

To be ignored in favour of Wasps 3rd choice hooker.....

[Raggs]

What would be the point in picking McGuigan? Older than LCD, same age as Dunn, only 2 years younger than George, and I don't really think he's better than any of the three.

Oghre is only 23, has shown some good pace, power and skills. Throwing can be wonky, but I'd be looking at him for post 2023, as a backup to LCD etc.

[FKAS]

He is.

To be ignored in favour of Wasps 3rd choice hooker.....

He'd already been overlooked in favour of his understudy before Oghre got the call.

[Digby]

What would be the point in picking McGuigan? Older than LCD, same age as Dunn, only 2 years younger than George, and I don't really think he's better than any of the three.

Oghre is only 23, has shown some good pace, power and skills. Throwing can be wonky, but I'd be looking at him for post 2023, as a backup to LCD etc.

Oghre has shown decent power on the carry, whether he's shown it in the tight isn't as obvious. But that he's ahead of McGuigan for being looked at doesn't seem misplaced

[Scrumhead]

Oghre’s OK, but McGuigan has been one of the best hookers in the Premiership all season and is only 28. I don’t see a single thing Oghre does better TBH?

[Raggs]

Oghre’s OK, but McGuigan has been one of the best hookers in the Premiership all season and is only 28. I don’t see a single thing Oghre does better TBH?

He's better at being 5 years younger. McGuigan is worse than Dunn, LCD and George. Arguably (in the eyes of the coaches) Singleton as well. What would be the point in picking him for these games?

[Puja]

Oghre’s OK, but McGuigan has been one of the best hookers in the Premiership all season and is only 28. I don’t see a single thing Oghre does better TBH?

He's better at being 5 years younger. McGuigan is worse than Dunn, LCD and George. Arguably (in the eyes of the coaches) Singleton as well. What would be the point in picking him for these games?

Spot on. Will McGuigan beat out LCD and George when they're back from the Lions? Very likely not. So why pick him for two meaningless tests against the US and Canada when that would likely be the end as well as the beginning of his England career? We've already got Dunn who we know can deputise in case of an emergency - what do we need a second Dunn for?

Oghre is objectively a poorer player right this very second, but I don't know for certain that he will never be the number one England hooker, which is not something I can say about McGuigan.

Puja

[Digby]

I can say it had never occurred to me Oghre might play for England, but this is a very different thing to an actual England squad

[Scrumhead]

But apart from the A game, it is going to be the full squad?

If I’m right, we have Blamire, Oghre and no-one else ... unless Singleton is allowed back after a period of isolation?

I’m surprised McGuigan doesn’t have more support TBH. He’s 28 not 32. It’s not like Dunn has nailed down the third spot and Singleton has been poor ever since he left Worcester. I accept he’s not going to actively challenge George and LCD, but I’d have given him the chance to compete with Dunn.

I might end up eating my words, don’t really see Oghre ever being good enough to be an England starter and Blamire, Capon etc. are a way off being ready.

[Digby]

full squad bar those off with the Lions, and those being rested, which basically says it's not a full squad

[Puja]

But apart from the A game, it is going to be the full squad?

If I’m right, we have Blamire, Oghre and no-one else ... unless Singleton is allowed back after a period of isolation?

I’m surprised McGuigan doesn’t have more support TBH. He’s 28 not 32. It’s not like Dunn has nailed down the third spot and Singleton has been poor ever since he left Worcester. I accept he’s not going to actively challenge George and LCD, but I’d have given him the chance to compete with Dunn.

I might end up eating my words, don’t really see Oghre ever being good enough to be an England starter and Blamire, Capon etc. are a way off being ready.

That's a fair point actually - I had kinda been working on the basis that this was an early training squad and that there would be other players to come in after the playoffs, but there's not actually many EQ hookers at the top four clubs. Ashman's decided on Scottishness, so the only player who could come in are Capon (well, Thacker and Yeandle in theory, although they would fall under the McGuigan/Dunn argument).

Are we really planning on playing test matches with two of Blamire, Oghre, or Capon in the XXIII? I know it's *only* USA and Canada, but they're not bad enough sides that I'm particularly comfortable with that level of hubris (well, the USA aren't, anyway). I think i'm coming around to your line of thinking Scrumhead.

ETA. Having said that, I do think Oghre appears to be underrated on here. Powerful carrier, mobile enough to play back row, decent hands - if he can sort out his yips, I think there's a very good player there.

Puja

[FKAS]

Langdon from Sale could come in. Very good young hooker and I'd certainly have him up there with Capon and over Oghre and Blamire based on this season's form.

[Banquo]

full squad bar those off with the Lions, and those being rested, which basically says it's not a full squad

..nor players from our top 4 teams plus any spare sarries..

[fivepointer]

Langdon and Capon should come into the mix once their club duties have ended. Singleton will return too i imagine.

I regard McGuigan as unlucky and would have picked him. He's been very good for Newcastle and is a far superior player to those in the squad this week. Age shouldnt be the main criteria for selection, particularly when one player is very clearly better and at 28 is hardly a veteran.

[Scrumhead]

Exactly.

As far as I understand, Singleton has to isolate but hasn’t tested positive (a bit like Tuilagi a couple of weeks ago). I’m assuming that means he can rejoin the squad.

I’d probably be happier with Langdon than Blamire, Oghre or Capon TBH. They all have potential, but as of right now, I think Langdon is the most well-rounded/experienced.

[Puja]

Langdon from Sale could come in. Very good young hooker and I'd certainly have him up there with Capon and over Oghre and Blamire based on this season's form.

Forgot all about Langdon! He's a decent option and one I'd be happy with.

Puja