Corbyn: Doing ok for a student union debater or a potential PM?

[UGagain]

I think he is certainly electable. His policies and his overall philosophy makes him so.

He's never going to swing the media but the media has, along with the neoliberal mainstream, lost credibility.

Nobody on the left believes the Grauniad anymore and the BBC has zero credibility.

[jared_7]

I think he is certainly electable. His policies and his overall philosophy makes him so.

He's never going to swing the media but the media has, along with the neoliberal mainstream, lost credibility.

Nobody on the left believes the Grauniad anymore and the BBC has zero credibility.

He's electable to me and people who discuss these issues, but has the mainstream media really lost credibility in the eyes of your average Joe, 90% of the public?

Its a bit like following the US election at the moment, anyone with any sense can see most of what Bernie Sanders says is right, but a media outlet or opponent only needs to mention the word socialism every now and again and most of the country loses all semblance of reason.

[UGagain]

I think he is certainly electable. His policies and his overall philosophy makes him so.

He's never going to swing the media but the media has, along with the neoliberal mainstream, lost credibility.

Nobody on the left believes the Grauniad anymore and the BBC has zero credibility.

He's electable to me and people who discuss these issues, but has the mainstream media really lost credibility in the eyes of your average Joe, 90% of the public?

Its a bit like following the US election at the moment, anyone with any sense can see most of what Bernie Sanders says is right, but a media outlet or opponent only needs to mention the word socialism every now and again and most of the country loses all semblance of reason.

The Grauniad (especially) has completely lost credibility amongst the left. It was pretty low when Rusbridger was around but Kath Viner has destroyed even that. Any reading of the comments on CiF will show you how little authority they have.

A lot of that has to do with their vicious anti-Corbyn crusade.

Polls show that the socialism tag doesn't have the negative effect that it used to in the US.

The DNC's own polling shows that Sanders is their strongest chance of winning POTUS. La Clinton wouldn't beat Trump and possibly the other high profile Repubs.

They're freaking out.

But Bernie is no Corbyn.

[morepork]

Sanders holds more water than you would expect as far as the general public is concerned.

[jared_7]

Sanders holds more water than you would expect as far as the general public is concerned.

Thought he had enough groundswell to take Nevada, but looks like that psycho with a vagina may start to pull away with SC next week.

[Lizard]

Has anyone else wondered how Bill ended up with Hillary?

[gthedog]

Has anyone else wondered how Bill ended up with Hillary?

Car keys in a bowl?

[UGagain]

Good piece on Corbyn by Tariq Ali.

Corbyn’s Progress

I wish someone would shut John McDonnell up. 'Closing the deficit' is not a policy option. It's a fool's errand.

[UGagain]

And that was before I read this nonsense.

McDonnell and the BBC talking head clueless about macroeonomics.

Labour announces 'fiscal credibility rule'

Utter neoliberal drivel.

[glamorganmorgan]

And that was before I read this nonsense.

McDonnell and the BBC talking head clueless about macroeonomics.

Labour announces 'fiscal credibility rule'

Utter neoliberal drivel.

it is at odds with the other things they have been talking about which is borrowing to invest and help the economy
to grow, which is not neo liberalism

[UGagain]

And that was before I read this nonsense.

McDonnell and the BBC talking head clueless about macroeonomics.

Labour announces 'fiscal credibility rule'

Utter neoliberal drivel.

it is at odds with the other things they have been talking about which is borrowing to invest and help the economy
to grow, which is not neo liberalism

Even the term 'borrowing to invest' is neoliberal framing. They need to stop it.

Any talk about minding deficit spending and 'economic credibility' is pandering to the neoliberal stupidity endemic in the political/media class.

Start talking macroeconomic sense and argue the points in logical terms. Expose the neoclassical drivel for what it is.

People don't want austerity and they're prepared to listen.

[glamorganmorgan]

Neo liberalism has made it difficult to grow at all because of austerity which is wrong in a number of ways has
reduced the economy to almost just the finance sector on its own. Privatising publicly owned assets was
getting rid of things that belonged to the people, and also gets rid of things that could be economic levers
in their own right.

[UGagain]

Neo liberalism has made it difficult to grow at all because of austerity which is wrong in a number of ways has
reduced the economy to almost just the finance sector on its own. Privatising publicly owned assets was
getting rid of things that belonged to the people, and also gets rid of things that could be economic levers
in their own right.

They need to start talking job creation and ignore the deficit terrorists.

Even talking balanced consumption spending is a fool's game.

The UK needs massive fiscal stimulus. Stop pussying around trying to placate the bastards who are never going to be placated anyway.

[glamorganmorgan]

Neo liberalism has made it difficult to grow at all because of austerity which is wrong in a number of ways has
reduced the economy to almost just the finance sector on its own. Privatising publicly owned assets was
getting rid of things that belonged to the people, and also gets rid of things that could be economic levers
in their own right.

They need to start talking job creation and ignore the deficit terrorists.

Even talking balanced consumption spending is a fool's game.

The UK needs massive fiscal stimulus. Stop pussying around trying to placate the bastards who are never going to be placated anyway.

They do need massive fiscal stimulus. I am not pussying around but never mind

[UGagain]

Neo liberalism has made it difficult to grow at all because of austerity which is wrong in a number of ways has
reduced the economy to almost just the finance sector on its own. Privatising publicly owned assets was
getting rid of things that belonged to the people, and also gets rid of things that could be economic levers
in their own right.

They need to start talking job creation and ignore the deficit terrorists.

Even talking balanced consumption spending is a fool's game.

The UK needs massive fiscal stimulus. Stop pussying around trying to placate the bastards who are never going to be placated anyway.

They do need massive fiscal stimulus. I am not pussying around but never mind

I meant Corbyn and McDonnell. They have to reframe the debate to win it.

[fivepointer]

Bill Mitchell isnt impressed....http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/? ... more-33152

"British Labour has until Thursday May 7, 2020 before they have to face the national electorate. More than 4 years.

They could have chosen to use that time to challenge the fundamental tenets of the macroeconomics debate by educating the public on the myths of neo-liberalism.

They could have abandoned their neo-liberal roots and engaged the public in a truly progressive process, which would have sunk the neo-liberal paradigm.

Instead, they have chosen to surrender to the neo-liberal mainstream and in using the language and metaphors of that approach have led the public to believe that deficits are always bad etc.

Then they will just say that they will cut the deficit in more equitable ways. Hopeless."

[gthedog]

Unfortunately loads of ISIL supporting Jew hating people are creeping into Labour now and that's never going to attract any voters

[UGagain]

Bill Mitchell isnt impressed....http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/? ... more-33152

"British Labour has until Thursday May 7, 2020 before they have to face the national electorate. More than 4 years.

They could have chosen to use that time to challenge the fundamental tenets of the macroeconomics debate by educating the public on the myths of neo-liberalism.

They could have abandoned their neo-liberal roots and engaged the public in a truly progressive process, which would have sunk the neo-liberal paradigm.

Instead, they have chosen to surrender to the neo-liberal mainstream and in using the language and metaphors of that approach have led the public to believe that deficits are always bad etc.

Then they will just say that they will cut the deficit in more equitable ways. Hopeless."

I couldn't agree more.

[UGagain]

Is 'retard' still blocked?

(Edit) Apparently and happily not.

Hi, G.

[Peat]

I don't know whether Corbyn has the right ideas - his heart may be in the right place but I'm not sure his head is.

I'm even less certain about whether the populace wants to hear them - sure, there's an appetite for change, but the British populace's political views have crept right since the 80s.

But I'm pretty damn certain Corbyn's not the right man to be leading the charge, right or wrong. He lacks any force of personality or obvious intellectual power. People voted against Labour last time out simply because they didn't want Miliband in power and I don't see why you'd want Corbyn in power any more than Miliband. That he is still flailing around with the PLP isn't merely evidence that they're all neoliberal Blairite closet-Tory scrum, it's evidence that he can't walk into a room full of various flavours of the unconvinced and come out a winner.

Am I interested in someone coming up with a very left leaning set of policies? Yeah and I think a lot of people are. Am I interested in what Corbyn has to say? No and I think he's been driving people away. Only the Tories' determination to commit suicide seems to be working in his favour.

Unfortunately loads of ISIL supporting Jew hating people are creeping into Labour now and that's never going to attract any voters

The left's inability to distinguish between anti-Israeli brutality and anti-semitism is one of its least attractive features and cuts away at a lot of its moral high ground in my eyes. Sadly, Corbyn's more an active example of that, rather than a guy to put a stop to it.

[UGagain]

I don't know whether Corbyn has the right ideas - his heart may be in the right place but I'm not sure his head is.

I'm even less certain about whether the populace wants to hear them - sure, there's an appetite for change, but the British populace's political views have crept right since the 80s.

But I'm pretty damn certain Corbyn's not the right man to be leading the charge, right or wrong. He lacks any force of personality or obvious intellectual power. People voted against Labour last time out simply because they didn't want Miliband in power and I don't see why you'd want Corbyn in power any more than Miliband. That he is still flailing around with the PLP isn't merely evidence that they're all neoliberal Blairite closet-Tory scrum, it's evidence that he can't walk into a room full of various flavours of the unconvinced and come out a winner.

Am I interested in someone coming up with a very left leaning set of policies? Yeah and I think a lot of people are. Am I interested in what Corbyn has to say? No and I think he's been driving people away. Only the Tories' determination to commit suicide seems to be working in his favour.

Unfortunately loads of ISIL supporting Jew hating people are creeping into Labour now and that's never going to attract any voters

The left's inability to distinguish between anti-Israeli brutality and anti-semitism is one of its least attractive features and cuts away at a lot of its moral high ground in my eyes. Sadly, Corbyn's more an active example of that, rather than a guy to put a stop to it.

The manner of his election and the membership numbers of the Labour Party since would suggest the opposite.

Those who merely want an authority figure to vote for can continue to read the Telegraph vote for the Tories. You aren't the constituency that Labour needs to appeal to.

[caldeyrfc]

Unfortunately loads of ISIL supporting Jew hating people are creeping into Labour now and that's never going to attract any voters

Fvcking hell I hope you have proof to back that up

[Peat]

Those who "merely wanted to vote for authority figures" helped cost Labour the last election. I'd suggest that makes them a constituency that Labour need to win the next General Election.

Not that I particularly identify with that constituency, and certainly not a constituency of Telegraph-reading Tories. If Labour's doesn't need to appeal me, I wish they'd stop emailing me asking me to campaign for them.

And the Labour party isn't the British electorate. His popularity sank and sank with the latter until the Tories took over the news with their own brand of mayhem. He's given me no reason to believe he won't resume the downwards trend should the Tories regain competence. Although it's not like he isn't losing people within the Labour party. Sure, he's gaining more than he loses, but he couldn't afford any losses to begin with.


Caldey - There's been a load of media about a rise of anti-semitism in the Labour party in the last couple of weeks due to a couple of expulsions and a guy leaving one of the Student unions due to the number of anti-semitic people there.

Heard nothing about ISIL supporting though.

[UGagain]

Those who "merely wanted to vote for authority figures" helped cost Labour the last election. I'd suggest that makes them a constituency that Labour need to win the next General Election.

Not that I particularly identify with that constituency, and certainly not a constituency of Telegraph-reading Tories. If Labour's doesn't need to appeal me, I wish they'd stop emailing me asking me to campaign for them.

And the Labour party isn't the British electorate.[\b] His popularity sank and sank with the latter until the Tories took over the news with their own brand of mayhem. He's given me no reason to believe he won't resume the downwards trend should the Tories regain competence. Although it's not like he isn't losing people within the Labour party. Sure, he's gaining more than he loses, but he couldn't afford any losses to begin with.


Caldey - There's been a load of media about a rise of anti-semitism in the Labour party in the last couple of weeks due to a couple of expulsions and a guy leaving one of the Student unions due to the number of anti-semitic people there.

Heard nothing about ISIL supporting though.

Nor is the media-political class the British electorate. And you're saying nothing that they haven't said and been wrong about. They've been wrong about everything Corbyn thus far.

And I'd like to see more Blairites leaving personally. There is no place for neoliberals in a party of labour. Corbyn needs to kick a few heads like Blair did to the left. McTernan should be booted as priority number one. And why Benn the younger and far far lesser is still in the shadow cabinet I can't fathom.

The danger for Corbyn is, in the spirit of inclusion, he keeps caving in to the right wing and ends up like Milliband with no discernible ideological difference with the austerity mad Tories.

Unfortunately, apparently under the spell of the 'New Keynesian' idiots they've appointed as economics advisers, that appears to be the very thing that is happening.

Your 'antisemitism' smears are duly noted and discarded. It's a bizarre world where opposition to the racist ideology of zionism is seen as a special kind of racism.

[Peat]

Ok, wow. That was pretty special. No, it's just another form of racism, and your casual dismissal of it shows why it's thriving nicely in the Labour party at present.

edit: And no, anti-semitism and anti-Israel are different things.