RugbyRebels

Bit ridiculous bringing Willis back in so soon really

Peej wrote:Bit ridiculous bringing Willis back in so soon really

Indeed.
And yet no Ribbans.

Peej wrote:Bit ridiculous bringing Willis back in so soon really

Not as though there's future games in the tournament to prepare him for though, so you'd assume he's in the mix for the XXIII.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Peej wrote:Bit ridiculous bringing Willis back in so soon really

Not as though there's future games in the tournament to prepare him for though, so you'd assume he's in the mix for the XXIII.

Puja

Underhill or Willis? There are no other candidates in the squad for the 7 shirt are there?

Underhill hasnt played much since coming back from concussion and Willis is 2 games into a comeback from more than a year out. Hardly ideal.
Might a recall for Ben Earl been a better bet?

fivepointer wrote:Underhill hasnt played much since coming back from concussion and Willis is 2 games into a comeback from more than a year out. Hardly ideal.
Might a recall for Ben Earl been a better bet?

I'd rather have a ring-rusty Willis or Underhill than a fully fit Earl.

Puja

fivepointer wrote:Underhill hasnt played much since coming back from concussion and Willis is 2 games into a comeback from more than a year out. Hardly ideal.
Might a recall for Ben Earl been a better bet?

I suppose he could be considering Simmonds at openside, if I dare mention it. He should stay at 8, IMO.

The 78 minute stint against Ireland with 14 ought to emphasise that only 100% fit candidates need apply. Anyone who can't match Itoje, Lawes and Simmonds for full-blooded graft should not be there.

fivepointer wrote:Underhill hasnt played much since coming back from concussion and Willis is 2 games into a comeback from more than a year out. Hardly ideal.
Might a recall for Ben Earl been a better bet?

Earl has dropped off performance wise, been benched often for Sarries.

Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

It's strange. I feel like he's chasing kicks well, and does just fine when the ball happens to find its way to his hands, but his retention in the team almost acknowledges that we're not really set up to expect anything more than that. He serves his purpose in the pendulum at the back when Steward comes forward or Nowell goes off and does his thing, but that seems to be about the extent of it. We don't appear to have any ambition to use him either as a winger or an additional playmaker.

I think he's a good player but not really a winger, and certainly not being served by what's going on further infield. No idea what it is that Jones feels makes him a better option than Daly, other than Daly (theoretically) being more suited to cover multiple positions from the bench.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

It's strange. I feel like he's chasing kicks well, and does just fine when the ball happens to find its way to his hands, but his retention in the team almost acknowledges that we're not really set up to expect anything more than that. He serves his purpose in the pendulum at the back when Steward comes forward or Nowell goes off and does his thing, but that seems to be about the extent of it. We don't appear to have any ambition to use him either as a winger or an additional playmaker.

I think he's a good player but not really a winger, and certainly not being served by what's going on further infield. No idea what it is that Jones feels makes him a better option than Daly, other than Daly (theoretically) being more suited to cover multiple positions from the bench.

He just makes too many mistakes and looks out of his depth tbh- maybe that's because he's not really a wing, despite playing there a lot. I liked him at 10 tbh.

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

It's strange. I feel like he's chasing kicks well, and does just fine when the ball happens to find its way to his hands, but his retention in the team almost acknowledges that we're not really set up to expect anything more than that. He serves his purpose in the pendulum at the back when Steward comes forward or Nowell goes off and does his thing, but that seems to be about the extent of it. We don't appear to have any ambition to use him either as a winger or an additional playmaker.

I think he's a good player but not really a winger, and certainly not being served by what's going on further infield. No idea what it is that Jones feels makes him a better option than Daly, other than Daly (theoretically) being more suited to cover multiple positions from the bench.

He just makes too many mistakes and looks out of his depth tbh- maybe that's because he's not really a wing, despite playing there a lot. I liked him at 10 tbh.

Would you pick Lynagh? Or, just start Daly?

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
It's strange. I feel like he's chasing kicks well, and does just fine when the ball happens to find its way to his hands, but his retention in the team almost acknowledges that we're not really set up to expect anything more than that. He serves his purpose in the pendulum at the back when Steward comes forward or Nowell goes off and does his thing, but that seems to be about the extent of it. We don't appear to have any ambition to use him either as a winger or an additional playmaker.

I think he's a good player but not really a winger, and certainly not being served by what's going on further infield. No idea what it is that Jones feels makes him a better option than Daly, other than Daly (theoretically) being more suited to cover multiple positions from the bench.

He just makes too many mistakes and looks out of his depth tbh- maybe that's because he's not really a wing, despite playing there a lot. I liked him at 10 tbh.

Would you pick Lynagh? Or, just start Daly?

I'd likely start Daly.

fivepointer wrote:Jack's back!
Squad update -

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary
Jamie Blamire
Ollie Chessum
Nic Dolly
Alex Dombrandt
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Joe Heyes
Maro Itoje
Nick Isiekwe
Joe Launchbury
Courtney Lawes
Joe Marler
Sam Simmonds
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart
Sam Underhill
Jack Willis

Five of those forwards would not start for their clubs if everyone was fit (Barbeary, Blamire, Chessum, Dolly, Heyes). Of those, four of them are being kept out by an EQP.

Puja

Good point well made.

Part of me feels like we needed to move on from Cole, but when no-one has really stepped-up as Sinckler’s understudy and I someone like Healy is still doing a job for Ireland, it does make me wonder.

I imagine you’re referring to Tom Willis ahead of Barbeary but I’d put Shields in a similar category to Cole. I was a very vocal critic of his in the past, but if he was called-up now, I’d be pretty happy about it. He is rarely less than very good these days.

As of right now, Tom Willis is a better 8 than Barbeary. Simple as. Barbeary has the potential to be something special but Willis is a much more complete player at this point in time.

McGuigan should be in the squad ahead of Blamire. I’ve always championed him and I just don’t get why he is overlooked.

Chessum/Martin is a bit of an either/or. It’s not like there’s a significant gap in experience.

Puja wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Jack's back!
Squad update -

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary
Jamie Blamire
Ollie Chessum
Nic Dolly
Alex Dombrandt
Ellis Genge
Jamie George
Joe Heyes
Maro Itoje
Nick Isiekwe
Joe Launchbury
Courtney Lawes
Joe Marler
Sam Simmonds
Kyle Sinckler
Will Stuart
Sam Underhill
Jack Willis

Five of those forwards would not start for their clubs if everyone was fit (Barbeary, Blamire, Chessum, Dolly, Heyes). Of those, four of them are being kept out by an EQP.

Puja

I'd start Chessum alongside Wells personally. I suspect we might see that towards the run in if everyone is available. He's been stealing lineouts and making yards in his last few appearances.

Scrumhead wrote:Good point well made.

Part of me feels like we needed to move on from Cole, but when no-one has really stepped-up as Sinckler’s understudy and I someone like Healy is still doing a job for Ireland, it does make me wonder.

I imagine you’re referring to Tom Willis ahead of Barbeary but I’d put Shields in a similar category to Cole. I was a very vocal critic of his in the past, but if he was called-up now, I’d be pretty happy about it. He is rarely less than very good these days.

As of right now, Tom Willis is a better 8 than Barbeary. Simple as. Barbeary has the potential to be something special but Willis is a much more complete player at this point in time.

McGuigan should be in the squad ahead of Blamire. I’ve always championed him and I just don’t get why he is overlooked.

Chessum/Martin is a bit of an either/or. It’s not like there’s a significant gap in experience.

I was actually thinking of Chessum as a lock, so behind Wells as the EQP. Mind, as FKAS says, I'd hope they're going to play side by side in the run-in.

If he's seen as a 6, then both Martin and Chessum are behind Liebenberg for Leicester.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Good point well made.

Part of me feels like we needed to move on from Cole, but when no-one has really stepped-up as Sinckler’s understudy and I someone like Healy is still doing a job for Ireland, it does make me wonder.

I imagine you’re referring to Tom Willis ahead of Barbeary but I’d put Shields in a similar category to Cole. I was a very vocal critic of his in the past, but if he was called-up now, I’d be pretty happy about it. He is rarely less than very good these days.

As of right now, Tom Willis is a better 8 than Barbeary. Simple as. Barbeary has the potential to be something special but Willis is a much more complete player at this point in time.

McGuigan should be in the squad ahead of Blamire. I’ve always championed him and I just don’t get why he is overlooked.

Chessum/Martin is a bit of an either/or. It’s not like there’s a significant gap in experience.

I was actually thinking of Chessum as a lock, so behind Wells as the EQP. Mind, as FKAS says, I'd hope they're going to play side by side in the run-in.

If he's seen as a 6, then both Martin and Chessum are behind Liebenberg for Leicester.

Puja

Yeah I'd expect us to be looking at;

Genge, Montoya, Cole
Wells, Chessum
Liebenburg, Weise, Reffell

Dolly, Whitcombe, Heyes, Green, Martin

For the big games. With the way Chessum got amongst the Sarries lineout and took his try he is what we've been wanting the club to get at lock, might be some rough edges still but would give us a mobile and aggressive pack.

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

Depends what the purpose is.

IMO, he's second choice FB for the RWC; maybe in the 23 shirt absent any injuries.
In which case, getting as much game-time into him as possible; whilst not sacrificing game-time for the first choice FB (Steward) makes perfect sense - especially if the aim is to get rid of Daly...

But it means sacrificing performance now, for gains to be had down the road - which we 100% know is an Eddie thing - and a thing I don't have a problem with per se - I just wish he wouldn't make quite so many short-term sacrifices for that aim.

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

I was expecting not to see Malins run out for the second half, with Jones seeing 13 v 15 as a more favourable option.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

Depends what the purpose is.

IMO, he's second choice FB for the RWC; maybe in the 23 shirt absent any injuries.
In which case, getting as much game-time into him as possible; whilst not sacrificing game-time for the first choice FB (Steward) makes perfect sense - especially if the aim is to get rid of Daly...

But it means sacrificing performance now, for gains to be had down the road - which we 100% know is an Eddie thing - and a thing I don't have a problem with per se - I just wish he wouldn't make quite so many short-term sacrifices for that aim.

It’s baffling trying to navigate the way Jones’s brain works, even having had 1 full World Cup cycle already, but this makes a lot of sense I guess.

I’m not totally sold on the extent of prioritising World Cup performance over all else, but I can see the logic.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

Depends what the purpose is.

IMO, he's second choice FB for the RWC; maybe in the 23 shirt absent any injuries.
In which case, getting as much game-time into him as possible; whilst not sacrificing game-time for the first choice FB (Steward) makes perfect sense - especially if the aim is to get rid of Daly...

But it means sacrificing performance now, for gains to be had down the road - which we 100% know is an Eddie thing - and a thing I don't have a problem with per se - I just wish he wouldn't make quite so many short-term sacrifices for that aim.

I used to think this way but over the past year or so, I’m finding this a lot less convincing. We know that’s what he says, but I just don’t know if I believe it anymore.

If we do finish 5th again which is looking fairly likely, I think some very serious questions need to be asked and I’m not sure the answers are there …

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

I was expecting not to see Malins run out for the second half, with Jones seeing 13 v 15 as a more favourable option.

Nah, Malins is one his faves now, there's no other explanation

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

I was expecting not to see Malins run out for the second half, with Jones seeing 13 v 15 as a more favourable option.

That's harsh. Malins isn't hitting the heights as an international that we all hoped for (as of yet), but he's better than that.

Puja

Puja wrote:

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:Not sure how Malins keeps his place tbh.

I was expecting not to see Malins run out for the second half, with Jones seeing 13 v 15 as a more favourable option.

That's harsh. Malins isn't hitting the heights as an international that we all hoped for (as of yet), but he's better than that.

Puja

This 6N he kinda isn't, though... (as someone who likes him as a player in general).