RugbyRebels

Cameo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:25 pm If you were a fan of either team, that was probably gripping and I'm sure there were key moments that could have gone either way.

BUT

As someone who doesn't like either team, that just confirmed all my prejudices. I know it was raining but it didn't have to mean a game that tedious. Can't really blame England because if SA were willing to get sucked into that, that was England's best chance at winning, but I wouldn't follow rugby if that was typical.

I'm glad SA won because I didn't want a final that was a foregone conclusion, but, man, do I want them to get thumped.

My only other thought possibly worth sharing was that I wonder if O'Keefe on review thought he had been a bit lenient around the rucks last week so was a bit tighter. SA seemed to take a while to adapt.

It looked to me like he was compensating a bit for last week.

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:54 pm Man, even I am heartbroken for England there. SA have not been worth this win. Not that England exactly have been worth it mind.

I had a moment of sympathy, but it passed.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:45 pm

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:54 pm Man, even I am heartbroken for England there. SA have not been worth this win. Not that England exactly have been worth it mind.

I had a moment of sympathy, but it passed.

Can someone remind me what time Wales' semi final kicks off?

shit game

J Dory wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:09 pmshit game

Shit game but far more of a contest than last night's game.

That was one ugly, ugly game. But credit to England, they used the weather and almost arm-wrestled their way to an inconceivable victory.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:18 pm

J Dory wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:09 pmshit game

Shit game but far more of a contest than last night's game.

True, way too slow though.

Why do SA routinely remove their captain and spiritual leader, Kolisi, routinely now at 50 min? He seems to be fit and not knackered. Do they think he has contributed all he is going to by that time? If so why not appoint another captain who can stay on the pitch and continue to provide leadership.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:01 am Why do SA routinely remove their captain and spiritual leader, Kolisi, routinely now at 50 min? He seems to be fit and not knackered. Do they think he has contributed all he is going to by that time? If so why not appoint another captain who can stay on the pitch and continue to provide leadership.

It does seem strange given how central he seems to be as a character in their squad. You’d guess they’ve just found that his work-rate for 55 minutes is worth it to the team over 80, given the strength of their bench.

Maybe not ideal with Mbonambi suddenly having to do 80 himself and take over as captain, but they seem to keep pulling through.

I’m finding it very hard to judge the relative qualities of the teams tonight. Maybe that was a fair reflection of the pools in Englands inability to take charge of a game that was there to be won on the first half.

I haven't seem the ball in play time but it must have been very low. Normally I'd at least partially blame the ref but he did try towards the end and it's tough when both sides are content for stoppages to drag on, and on.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:22 am

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:01 am Why do SA routinely remove their captain and spiritual leader, Kolisi, routinely now at 50 min? He seems to be fit and not knackered. Do they think he has contributed all he is going to by that time? If so why not appoint another captain who can stay on the pitch and continue to provide leadership.

It does seem strange given how central he seems to be as a character in their squad. You’d guess they’ve just found that his work-rate for 55 minutes is worth it to the team over 80, given the strength of their bench.

Maybe not ideal with Mbonambi suddenly having to do 80 himself and take over as captain, but they seem to keep pulling through.

I’m finding it very hard to judge the relative qualities of the teams tonight. Maybe that was a fair reflection of the pools in Englands inability to take charge of a game that was there to be won on the first half.

I know what you mean but there to be won suggests missed chances, which I didn't really see. The only way England were going to win that was through SA giving away enough penalties in kickable range (plus drop goals). It almost worked, but was very reliant on what SA did (or didn't) do. .

God my eyes hurt. From a neutral perspective that was probably one of the worst games in the competition. Thought the starting England pack did well and had the edge, which changed along with the direction of the game, with the replacements.
Little to no attacking play from either side. Don't recall seeing the centres touching the ball.

oldbackrow wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:57 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:45 pm

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:54 pm Man, even I am heartbroken for England there. SA have not been worth this win. Not that England exactly have been worth it mind.

I had a moment of sympathy, but it passed.

Can someone remind me what time Wales' semi final kicks off?

About four years time, just after we knock out England. Again.

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:57 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:22 am

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:01 am Why do SA routinely remove their captain and spiritual leader, Kolisi, routinely now at 50 min? He seems to be fit and not knackered. Do they think he has contributed all he is going to by that time? If so why not appoint another captain who can stay on the pitch and continue to provide leadership.

It does seem strange given how central he seems to be as a character in their squad. You’d guess they’ve just found that his work-rate for 55 minutes is worth it to the team over 80, given the strength of their bench.

Maybe not ideal with Mbonambi suddenly having to do 80 himself and take over as captain, but they seem to keep pulling through.

I’m finding it very hard to judge the relative qualities of the teams tonight. Maybe that was a fair reflection of the pools in Englands inability to take charge of a game that was there to be won on the first half.

I know what you mean but there to be won suggests missed chances, which I didn't really see. The only way England were going to win that was through SA giving away enough penalties in kickable range (plus drop goals). It almost worked, but was very reliant on what SA did (or didn't) do. .

Fair enough. The way I saw it South Africa looked a bit shell shocked at times in the first 50 minutes. The English pack were largely on top but didn’t make it count on the scoreboard.

Kicking in behind was effective and started to pressurise SA in to errors deeps in their half, but I’ll be honest half the time it felt like England got lucky when kicking away overlaps (or good attacking ball) or trusting our forwards to keep making dents.

Obviously it wasn’t a night for flinging it around, and I get why the coaches wouldn’t trust this backline to suddenly start executing moves like that in the rain, but the opportunities were there to score far more than 12 points.

It went through the hands more in the desperate 3 minutes that Ford was on than it seemed to all game. They could have still played a pressure kicking game but had someone skilful enough to exploit running opportunities when they showed themselves.

The argument will always be Farrell’s physicality in defence making up for it against a powerful SA side, but that moment of indiscipline in the first half seemed to kill England’s momentum.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:01 am Why do SA routinely remove their captain and spiritual leader, Kolisi, routinely now at 50 min? He seems to be fit and not knackered. Do they think he has contributed all he is going to by that time? If so why not appoint another captain who can stay on the pitch and continue to provide leadership.

He is coming back from injury, and performs a different role to Fourie anyway.

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:57 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:22 am

Spiffy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:01 am Why do SA routinely remove their captain and spiritual leader, Kolisi, routinely now at 50 min? He seems to be fit and not knackered. Do they think he has contributed all he is going to by that time? If so why not appoint another captain who can stay on the pitch and continue to provide leadership.

It does seem strange given how central he seems to be as a character in their squad. You’d guess they’ve just found that his work-rate for 55 minutes is worth it to the team over 80, given the strength of their bench.

Maybe not ideal with Mbonambi suddenly having to do 80 himself and take over as captain, but they seem to keep pulling through.

I’m finding it very hard to judge the relative qualities of the teams tonight. Maybe that was a fair reflection of the pools in Englands inability to take charge of a game that was there to be won on the first half.

I know what you mean but there to be won suggests missed chances, which I didn't really see. The only way England were going to win that was through SA giving away enough penalties in kickable range (plus drop goals). It almost worked, but was very reliant on what SA did (or didn't) do. .

The missed chances were two lineouts in their 22 which George fluffed, plus an attacking scrum 5 m from their line which we muffed. Points from any of those, game over. We had the only tactics that would ever have worked in those conditions, but ultimately SA have two top class packs.

bruce wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:49 am God my eyes hurt. From a neutral perspective that was probably one of the worst games in the competition. Thought the starting England pack did well and had the edge, which changed along with the direction of the game, with the replacements.
Little to no attacking play from either side. Don't recall seeing the centres touching the ball.

they didn't- well a couple of touches but Kriel didn't touch it, the conditions were pretty tricky tbf.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:43 am

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:57 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:22 am

It does seem strange given how central he seems to be as a character in their squad. You’d guess they’ve just found that his work-rate for 55 minutes is worth it to the team over 80, given the strength of their bench.

Maybe not ideal with Mbonambi suddenly having to do 80 himself and take over as captain, but they seem to keep pulling through.

I’m finding it very hard to judge the relative qualities of the teams tonight. Maybe that was a fair reflection of the pools in Englands inability to take charge of a game that was there to be won on the first half.

I know what you mean but there to be won suggests missed chances, which I didn't really see. The only way England were going to win that was through SA giving away enough penalties in kickable range (plus drop goals). It almost worked, but was very reliant on what SA did (or didn't) do. .

The missed chances were two lineouts in their 22 which George fluffed, plus an attacking scrum 5 m from their line which we muffed. Points from any of those, game over. We had the only tactics that would ever have worked in those conditions, but ultimately SA have two top class packs.

Probably helped it was the Boks that England were facing too. England wanted an arm wrestle and if anyone was going to accept that challenge it was South Africa. When Plan A didnt work, Plan B was to bring on bigger arm wrestlers.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:18 pm

J Dory wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:09 pmshit game

Shit game but far more of a contest than last night's game.

It at least stopped the constant moaning about how unfair the draw was.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:53 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:43 am

Cameo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 4:57 am

I know what you mean but there to be won suggests missed chances, which I didn't really see. The only way England were going to win that was through SA giving away enough penalties in kickable range (plus drop goals). It almost worked, but was very reliant on what SA did (or didn't) do. .

The missed chances were two lineouts in their 22 which George fluffed, plus an attacking scrum 5 m from their line which we muffed. Points from any of those, game over. We had the only tactics that would ever have worked in those conditions, but ultimately SA have two top class packs.

Probably helped it was the Boks that England were facing too. England wanted an arm wrestle and if anyone was going to accept that challenge it was South Africa. When Plan A didnt work, Plan B was to bring on bigger arm wrestlers.

Yeah. If the conditions had been better it might not have worked out so well. Hopefully it’s not pissing down for the final.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 3:52 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:18 pm

J Dory wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:09 pmshit game

Shit game but far more of a contest than last night's game.

It at least stopped the constant moaning about how unfair the draw was.

Oh there's plenty left where that came from, don't worry.

That was the most boring game of the WC I've watched, I haven't watched all the games, but I watched a few.

Here's how it went for me:
- a team kicks, for the point of the illustration, let's say it was England
- ruck ensues
- SA recycle once or twice running into contact once off the ruck
- kick it back
- England catches the ball
- form ruck, and slowly add forwards, two or three so the halfback is well behind the offside line, 20 - 30 seconds later, kick back
- rinse and repeat

Never again please, that wasn't an arm wrestle, it was boring.

J Dory wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:32 pm That was the most boring game of the WC I've watched, I haven't watched all the games, but I watched a few.

Here's how it went for me:
- a team kicks, for the point of the illustration, let's say it was England
- ruck ensues
- SA recycle once or twice running into contact once off the ruck
- kick it back
- England catches the ball
- form ruck, and slowly add forwards, two or three so the halfback is well behind the offside line, 20 - 30 seconds later, kick back
- rinse and repeat

Never again please, that wasn't an arm wrestle, it was boring.

It was a frustrating watch on times, but I wouldn't say boring. There was never more than 6 points between the teams and the result was in doubt right up to the final whistle. Both teams were certainly limited in their ambitions, but it wasnt a procession like the other semi. There was much to admire in watching NZ's play, but it stopped being contest after about 20 minutes.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:09 am

J Dory wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:32 pm That was the most boring game of the WC I've watched, I haven't watched all the games, but I watched a few.

Here's how it went for me:
- a team kicks, for the point of the illustration, let's say it was England
- ruck ensues
- SA recycle once or twice running into contact once off the ruck
- kick it back
- England catches the ball
- form ruck, and slowly add forwards, two or three so the halfback is well behind the offside line, 20 - 30 seconds later, kick back
- rinse and repeat

Never again please, that wasn't an arm wrestle, it was boring.

It was a frustrating watch on times, but I wouldn't say boring. There was never more than 6 points between the teams and the result was in doubt right up to the final whistle. Both teams were certainly limited in their ambitions, but it wasnt a procession like the other semi. There was much to admire in watching NZ's play, but it stopped being contest after about 20 minutes.

I'm afraid I'm on J Dory's side on this one. I wouldn't have found it as boring if I supported one of the sides, but the play was dull. There was some drama as the result was unclear until the end, but if that was what rugby was like most of the time, I wouldn't watch. Even most wet weather games have more to them - phases of intense defence near the try line or the odd line break, or at least continuous play without so many stoppages and dead time.

It was like watching a tennis match where the number of double faults decided the outcome.