RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:18 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:24 pm

chris18501 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:13 pm A lot of very hypocritical comments on SM generally today including this site

Here?

Bear in mind the huge difference utter absence of hypocrisy in A] supporting someone who's looking after their mental health, and B] criticising that same person for their rugby playing, or even disliking the public persona of that person.

I've been as 'vocal' as anyone, but its never been a 'personal' thing, always about his play. I'm afraid criticism of play comes with pro territory (and amateur tbh).

(though, when I tried to second guess myself, I couldn't do a simple search including Farrell as a key word....too 'common a word' on the board!)

But, we have always said that we don't understand coaches/players etc. rating him so highly when what we see of him, as a player, should not make him 'undroppable'. It was always claimed that his character/presence/leadership accounted for his position on the pedestal. It was not the 'fans' that put him up there to be shot at.

I've never seen or heard an adverse comment about him as a person from anyone who knows him.

He has anger issues, and kudos to him for fronting up.

Well I think it is wise for him take a break

the interesting thing that the best 10 to replace him like for like in terms of styles of play not physical body will never be picked:

Jacob Umaga.

And ironically the most inform English 9 is Umagas partner Uren, who again is not at any risk of being picked

morepork wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:48 pm He has anger issues, and kudos to him for fronting up.

Seriously? He has anger issues?

Very droll slowest fullback in the world.

I’ll show you anger issues.

morepork wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:27 pm Very droll slowest fullback in the world.

How can he be? That genius Australian head coach played him on the wing.

Seriously though. He seems like quite a nice guy.

This may be controversial and feel free to remove if it's deemed unnecessary... I appreciate that being in the spotlight and under scrutiny could impact your wellbeing but I find it a bit cynical how Saracens are using this to say that the treatment of Farrell is "shameful" (https://www.rugbypass.com/news/mark-mcc ... s-england/).

In my view, the scrutiny of Farrell is no different to the analysis of any sportsman (and in particular a captain / key figure) when there is under-performance or disciplinary issues whereas it is being painted as particularly personal / targeted. As I say above, I doubt it feels great to be booed or get poor ratings in the papers (still rare for Farrell) and understand if you didn't want to face that but it is part and parcel of elite sport.

But it is being made personal. He is not my choice as England first choice 10, a 12 or captain but think he has been unfairly blamed for Englands last 2 years+ of failings. He is a hardworking and very professional player, who regularly is the last player off the field with signing autographs and having photos taken.
However, have to trust all those successful coaches who do rate him and see positives, players (both teammates and opponents from around the world like Beauden Barrett,, Stuart Hogg, POM and even Finn Russell etc)
Comments from everywhere about him being 'arrogant', 'over aggressive' (having 'anger issues which posters on here have identified) 'petulant' etc (which again his peers defend him on) and even questioning his intelligence and, with the Saracens salary cap breaches, his 'morals', have become personal.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:32 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:18 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 3:24 pm

Here?

Bear in mind the huge difference utter absence of hypocrisy in A] supporting someone who's looking after their mental health, and B] criticising that same person for their rugby playing, or even disliking the public persona of that person.

I've been as 'vocal' as anyone, but its never been a 'personal' thing, always about his play. I'm afraid criticism of play comes with pro territory (and amateur tbh).

(though, when I tried to second guess myself, I couldn't do a simple search including Farrell as a key word....too 'common a word' on the board!)

But, we have always said that we don't understand coaches/players etc. rating him so highly when what we see of him, as a player, should not make him 'undroppable'. It was always claimed that his character/presence/leadership accounted for his position on the pedestal. It was not the 'fans' that put him up there to be shot at.

eh? whats the point you are getting at?

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:02 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:32 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 4:18 pm
I've been as 'vocal' as anyone, but its never been a 'personal' thing, always about his play. I'm afraid criticism of play comes with pro territory (and amateur tbh).

(though, when I tried to second guess myself, I couldn't do a simple search including Farrell as a key word....too 'common a word' on the board!)

But, we have always said that we don't understand coaches/players etc. rating him so highly when what we see of him, as a player, should not make him 'undroppable'. It was always claimed that his character/presence/leadership accounted for his position on the pedestal. It was not the 'fans' that put him up there to be shot at.

eh? whats the point you are getting at?

That ‘fans’ booing or not holding street parties for surpassing JW’s point tally aren’t the reason behind him wanting to focus on club rugby and - I assume - the vocal arena of European rugby

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:36 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:02 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:32 pm

But, we have always said that we don't understand coaches/players etc. rating him so highly when what we see of him, as a player, should not make him 'undroppable'. It was always claimed that his character/presence/leadership accounted for his position on the pedestal. It was not the 'fans' that put him up there to be shot at.

eh? whats the point you are getting at?

That ‘fans’ booing or not holding street parties for surpassing JW’s point tally aren’t the reason behind him wanting to focus on club rugby and - I assume - the vocal arena of European rugby

That, plus the fact that any hypocrisy is not confined to fickle fans. Basically, we have consistently criticised Farrell, the player/captain. Management has picked player + mental strength (character, leadership etc.). Now, whatever the reason, he has cracked.

He should have been sent home and omitted from the squad when he got the red card - as I said at the time. Instead, we heard about his epic strength of character in dealing with dropping that clanger. Did nobody close to him from management suspect that he was in trouble mentally then? Was there no mental health supervision? If he was now taking time out from an undiagnosed physical issue, such as a stress fracture, there would be all sorts of medical repercussions, I suspect.

Now, McCall is saying Farrell was treated badly by the press etc. Maybe, somebody should investigate the England in-camp structure if blame is being cast.

re McCall's comments.

1) High level, high profile sports players learn to take the rough with the smooth from the media. Getting praise and flak are part of the job.

2) Farrell has largely enjoyed a remarkably positive, uncritical media. It may have shifted a bit over the last year or two, but for years his ordinary play was held up as being in some way extraordinary.

Again though “he has cracked”?! We have no idea what’s going on really. He just wants a break.

The fact this is all being analysed in such a way kind of proves some of McCall’s point. Haven’t a ton of players taken sabbaticals for various reasons before?

If you say you’re going home for the weekend or taking the annual leave you have booked, and your superiors claim “you have cracked” because you can’t handle continuing I think you’d be mighty confused to be honest.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:42 am re McCall's comments.

1) High level, high profile sports players learn to take the rough with the smooth from the media. Getting praise and flak are part of the job.

2) Farrell has largely enjoyed a remarkably positive, uncritical media. It may have shifted a bit over the last year or two, but for years his ordinary play was held up as being in some way extraordinary.

Exactly this.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:45 am Again though “he has cracked”?! We have no idea what’s going on really. He just wants a break.

The fact this is all being analysed in such a way kind of proves some of McCall’s point. Haven’t a ton of players taken sabbaticals for various reasons before?

If you say you’re going home for the weekend or taking the annual leave you have booked, and your superiors claim “you have cracked” because you can’t handle continuing I think you’d be mighty confused to be honest.

I can't think of any for this declared reason but I'm happy to be reminded. The trouble is that it is not an ordinary player. It is one that we were constantly reminded was extraordinary. And, management could have taken pressure off him by continuing with Lawes as captain and/or by picking Ford at FH.

The moustaches have only just been shaved off and already we're lapsing into some extremely problematic tropes and amateur armchair diagnoses of anger issues and when exactly he may have "cracked". Can we not just say, "I hope you feel better soon, Owen" and start discussing our new captaincy and fly-half options for the 6N?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:39 am The moustaches have only just been shaved off and already we're lapsing into some extremely problematic tropes and amateur armchair diagnoses of anger issues and when exactly he may have "cracked". Can we not just say, "I hope you feel better soon, Owen" and start discussing our new captaincy and fly-half options for the 6N?

Puja

I do hope Owen feels better soon. I just also hope that it comes with a realization that international rugby is bad for his mental health so he’s permanently retiring from England duty.

I don’t see that as a problematic statement to make. I can have sympathy for him as a human and also believe he’s a handbrake on this England team.

It’s exactly the same as “criticizing the Israeli state is anti Semitic”.

You know what grinds my gears…

I absolutley respect his decision.

But the media/coaches/pundits that look to turn this onto supporters/fans can go .......... themselves.

p/d wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:13 am I absolutley respect his decision.

But the media/coaches/pundits that look to turn this onto supporters/fans can go .......... themselves.

Absolutely

p/d wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:13 am I absolutley respect his decision.

But the media/coaches/pundits that look to turn this onto supporters/fans can go .......... themselves.

Yeah, there's been a lot of "Are you happy now, you monsters?" style articles in the news since this came out, implying any criticism of him or delight at him not being selected was basically bullying. Also a very a shit take, but from the other side.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:30 am

p/d wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:13 am I absolutley respect his decision.

But the media/coaches/pundits that look to turn this onto supporters/fans can go .......... themselves.

Yeah, there's been a lot of "Are you happy now, you monsters?" style articles in the news since this came out, implying any criticism of him or delight at him not being selected was basically bullying. Also a very a shit take, but from the other side.

Puja

Yep. Pure speculation leading to headlines for maximum impact.

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:39 amCan we not just say, "I hope you feel better soon, Owen" and start discussing our new captaincy and fly-half options for the 6N?

Here here.

Though if you do that, and have ever criticised Owen for anything ever, you'll get accused of hypocrisy - a word who's meaning seems to have changed markedly without me noticing,