Who are you picking at 12?

[p/d]

Smith has to be first choice over Ford.

Anyhoo, back to 12.

I was going to 'like' your post but the option has disappeared?????

[p/d]

Smith has to be first choice over Ford.

Anyhoo, back to 12.

Finn? absolutely

I was going to add ‘and Marcus must be pushing hard’

[Slater582]

Obviously Anyanwu is the saviour for the next 3.5 weeks until we discard him and spit upon the grave of his international career.

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Obviously Anyanwu is the saviour for the next 3.5 weeks until we discard him and spit upon the grave of his international career.

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

[Puja]

Obviously Anyanwu is the saviour for the next 3.5 weeks until we discard him and spit upon the grave of his international career.

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

"Form 12" is damning with extremely faint praise, given the form Atkinson's been showing the past month or two. I'd say that's only true on the basis no other EQP's been playing 12.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Obviously Anyanwu is the saviour for the next 3.5 weeks until we discard him and spit upon the grave of his international career.

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

Is Atkinson back in form, then? The last time I saw him, a few weeks back, he was mediocre at best.

[Banquo]

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

"Form 12" is damning with extremely faint praise, given the form Atkinson's been showing the past month or two. I'd say that's only true on the basis no other EQP's been playing 12.

Puja

Good one!!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

"Form 12" is damning with extremely faint praise, given the form Atkinson's been showing the past month or two. I'd say that's only true on the basis no other EQP's been playing 12.

Puja

See I don't get this Atkinson is in poor / average form. It's a bit like Mercer. Glous are, as a team, sub par, but those two are not by any stretch. Kelly, on the other hand has been up and down, but Atkinson has been consistently good in a poor side.

There might be the odd pass that goes to ground, but his all round game has been good.

[fivepointer]

I'd back Atkinson. I've seen enough to be convinced he's got some real quality.

Impressed with Ojomoh yesterday. Defended well and looked good with the ball.

Kelly just isnt doing enough.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I'd back Atkinson. I've seen enough to be convinced he's got some real quality.

Impressed with Ojomoh yesterday. Defended well and looked good with the ball.

Kelly just isnt doing enough.

He's just really up and down at the moment. Like he's lost his consistency.

[Banquo]

I'd back Atkinson. I've seen enough to be convinced he's got some real quality.

Impressed with Ojomoh yesterday. Defended well and looked good with the ball.

Kelly just isnt doing enough.

They mixed and matched well, he and Lawrence.

Dingwall just saying.

[Banquo]

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

"Form 12" is damning with extremely faint praise, given the form Atkinson's been showing the past month or two. I'd say that's only true on the basis no other EQP's been playing 12.

Puja

See I don't get this Atkinson is in poor / average form. It's a bit like Mercer. Glous are, as a team, sub par, but those two are not by any stretch. Kelly, on the other hand has been up and down, but Atkinson has been consistently good in a poor side.

There might be the odd pass that goes to ground, but his all round game has been good.

weird how players are better in better teams, innit. Its like its a team game or something.

[Which Tyler]

"Form 12" is damning with extremely faint praise, given the form Atkinson's been showing the past month or two. I'd say that's only true on the basis no other EQP's been playing 12.

I see you saying "12" not "IC"

See I don't get this Atkinson is in poor / average form. It's a bit like Mercer. Glous are, as a team, sub par, but those two are not by any stretch.

Agree, he's been decent in a bad side - though I'm not sure I'd go further than decent.
What he has shown, is that he's not really suffering any second season syndrome, he's just a young player learning the ropes of senior rugby - which give his form and skills overall, puts him right in contention for me.



As for the thread title question - I'm still pretty close to where I was earlier, but with knowledge that Dingwall has been playing IC whilst wearing 13. I like the combination of Slade and Lawrence (either way around), and Lawrence really ought to be guaranteed one of the centre berths, but...
It depends on how everyone else is set up - which in turn comes down to who plays 10.

If it's Marcus, and we're allowed to pass any judgement on him, then we've all been reliably informed that he HAS to have Dombrandt at 8, Care at 9 (to manage the game for him) and an Esterhuizen stand-in at 12; because you can't judge how he plays a different game without giving him the same pieces.
So IF Marcus, then 9. Care, 10. MSmith, 12. Lawrence* - which allows for 13. Slade as the 2nd playmaker, and 15. Stewart for stability.

However, IF FSmith (still my preference), then there's a great deal to be said for 9. Mitchell*, 10. FSmith*, 12. Dingwall, 13. Lawrence* and encourages 15. Furbank as a 2nd playmaker.

Either way, my choice of wings are Freeman, and probably Feyi-Waboso (well, Murely, Thorley or Radwan, but they're not in the EPS).
Yes, I know EFW hasn't had the chance to suffer/avoid 2SS, but if there's any position where I'm okay promoting early, then it's wing.


* who IMO should be 1st choice individually

[Mikey Brown]

I'd almost be happy for Marcus Smith to be left out if I believed that would halt the discussions about him. It's tiring just to read this stuff, letalone participate*. Why has it got to be so binary?

He's had some good and some bad in a (generally) very patchy, erratic England side. It's encouraging to know that his line-breaking ability can work against international defences but there's obviously lots of improvements to be made throughout the whole team. I don't know if anyone (worth listening to) is actually suggesting he has the entire spine of the Quins team (or their nearest like-for-like) around him, or just that we actually settle on a set of tactics and a better balanced group of players for more than a couple of games.

Cycling through a dozen different game-plans and the fixation with hiding/testing strategies for the world cup did cloud things a lot. I hope if Fin Smith is given a run he has some clarity and consistency in what we're trying to do.

*I appreciate I've now gone on to write a load of bullshit about it.

[p/d]

"Form 12" is damning with extremely faint praise, given the form Atkinson's been showing the past month or two. I'd say that's only true on the basis no other EQP's been playing 12.

Puja

See I don't get this Atkinson is in poor / average form. It's a bit like Mercer. Glous are, as a team, sub par, but those two are not by any stretch. Kelly, on the other hand has been up and down, but Atkinson has been consistently good in a poor side.

There might be the odd pass that goes to ground, but his all round game has been good.

weird how players are better in better teams, innit. Its like its a team game or something.

Guy Pepper. Outstanding form (injury aside).

[FKAS]

I'd back Atkinson. I've seen enough to be convinced he's got some real quality.

Impressed with Ojomoh yesterday. Defended well and looked good with the ball.

Kelly just isnt doing enough.

He's just really up and down at the moment. Like he's lost his consistency.

I've not seen the Leinster game but after a fairly turgid start to the season he played better Vs Sarries and La Rochelle. I think he's a bit of a confidence player and in a new pairing with a team that's got no attack coach (and it showing) he was struggling. There's more in the tank than is being used, his little chip and chase Vs La Rochelle being a prime example and we know he's got a good range of passing in the locker as well. Hopefully a run out in the A side comes his way and gives him a boost.

Either Dingwall or moving Lawrence to 12 look the most likely selections so far.

[Mellsblue]

If it's Marcus, and we're allowed to pass any judgement on him, then we've all been reliably informed that he HAS to have Dombrandt at 8, Care at 9 (to manage the game for him) and an Esterhuizen stand-in at 12; because you can't judge how he plays a different game without giving him the same pieces.

Feel free to pass judgement but you’ll also need to feel free to be challenged if someone disagrees with you.

To quote ‘A] we're allowed to have different opinions’.

Could I also add, B] you shouldn’t cherry pick parts of arguments just to make passive aggressive points.

Nobody has reliably informed you that you have to pick Dombrandt and Care - albeit it would surely help if you surround a flyhalf with those he plays with for his club if possible* - more that it would help, for the reason just stated, and that you should not pick stodge at 8 and 9 in the form of eg a Vunipola or a Youngs if picking a running/attacking 10. It would help to pick a runner at 12 to help your chief playmaker but that might just be me trying to help said chief playmaker maximise his skill set. That would just be good coaching and feck me we’ve pretty much all said it re Ford when inside Farrell so why it’s different with M Smith I’ll never know**. I’ve also suggested you pick an attacking 15 and pacy runners on the wings and give them licence to counterattack to help achieve the broken fields and defensive shapes that M Smith thrives in. Not particular complicated stuff but certainly not as simple as ‘just surround him with his mates’. I’ve also stated that if you’re not willing to put in place a structure to support a running 10 then don’t pick a running 10 and pick Ford or F Smith. Again, not particularly complicated.

* I’m also on record as saying I believe Jalibert to be a better 10 than Ntamack but the latters’ relationship with Dupont does give him the edge in selection.
** I do know but I’m looking for dramatic effect.

[Mellsblue]

I don't know if anyone (worth listening to) is actually suggesting he has the entire spine of the Quins team (or their nearest like-for-like) around him, or just that we actually settle on a set of tactics and a better balanced group of players for more than a couple of games.

A long time ago I said the least that could be done was to pick Dombrandt and Care and have a ball carrier at 12 but I also qualified it with needing a change of game plan and also changes in other positions - see my previous about back three - and I further qualified by stating that it doesn’t have be Dombrandt and Care necessarily but players in their mould. I’d be perfectly happy with eg Earl and Mitchell which is who I would pick vs Italy despite Dombrandt and Care being available.

As far as I’m concerned, feel free to post as much bs as you like. It’s a rugby forum that is comprised mostly of the stuff and no one who is ‘worth listening to’ reads anyway.

[p/d]

I do

[Mellsblue]

I do

More bs. You take this board incredibly seriously.

[Slater582]

Obviously Anyanwu is the saviour for the next 3.5 weeks until we discard him and spit upon the grave of his international career.

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

Having just read Borthwick's comments again I've done him a disservice, it was in the context of gametime at their clubs.

It'll be interesting to see which centres he selects for the fixture with Portugal.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Borthwick has said he rates him. Also talked up Ojomoh and Ma'asi-White. Doesn't seem to have mentioned Atkinson or Hartley though.

Probably because he’s a moron. Atkinson is the form 12 whilst also having the most rounded skill set.

Having just read Borthwick's comments again I've done him a disservice, it was in the context of gametime at their clubs.

It'll be interesting to see which centres he selects for the fixture with Portugal.

Yes, that will be very telling I think.

[Insouciant]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68074223

And... Lawrence appears to be out injured. May 'The Great 12 Debate' continue.

[Mikey Brown]

Shame he’s only 5’6” and 73 kg.

[Mellsblue]

That’s the sort of stat that will have Borthwick sending aubergine emojis.