RugbyRebels

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:26 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:50 pm

Timbo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 5:29 pm Post Scotland, where he was quite poor after returning from injury, Lawrence has been solid-good in each of his last 5 tests. Bit rusty against Japan. Definitely some work-ons, but he plays like an effective modern day hard running/3rd flanker type 12. Certainly listening to the Kiwi pundits & analysis they were impressed with him.

I’m surprised. His skill levels aren’t what a kiwi would accept generally. That role would seem the natural one for him at 12, and one that would suit this England ( and frankly many teams) but he looks pretty uncomfortable there to me.

He's not a 12. He's got the frame to do a crash ball into traffic, but he hasn't got the ball retention skills or tight carrying style to make it work consistently. The best use we've got out of him there has been from pretending he's going on the crash and passing the ball behind him, aided by NZ failing to do their homework and believing every time that he was going to get the ball because he looked big and scary.

To my mind, he's actually a better winger than he is a 12 - his best skills are based around using his pace to attack gaps and power through arm tackles.

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:46 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:26 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:50 pm

I’m surprised. His skill levels aren’t what a kiwi would accept generally. That role would seem the natural one for him at 12, and one that would suit this England ( and frankly many teams) but he looks pretty uncomfortable there to me.

He's not a 12. He's got the frame to do a crash ball into traffic, but he hasn't got the ball retention skills or tight carrying style to make it work consistently. The best use we've got out of him there has been from pretending he's going on the crash and passing the ball behind him, aided by NZ failing to do their homework and believing every time that he was going to get the ball because he looked big and scary.

To my mind, he's actually a better winger than he is a 12 - his best skills are based around using his pace to attack gaps and power through arm tackles.

Puja

Never seen him on the wing in senior rugby tbh.

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:53 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:26 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:33 pm Lawrence is decent. He’s not helped by having to play a different role for England to the one he plays with Bath.

He is better at 13. However, that’s mostly from an attacking POV and also playing in an entirely different set up. Given how key the 13 role is in England’s defensive system, I think moving him would be setting him up to fail. He’s less exposed at 12 so that’s where I’d prefer to leave him. Even more so if he’s playing with an inexperienced partner in midfield.

Agreed. Lawrence is an example of what I was spouting about on the other thread. He's good - decent to use your word. But, he's not outstanding (yet?). If a better prospect comes on the scene it would be tough for him in some ways but there is no doubt that two top standard centres would transform the team. For now, SB must see him as a work in progress. There's more to come but he could well be overtaken.

Kin ell, been crying out for a top centre pairing for decades. Even a couple of complimentary players with rounded skill sets would be nice.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 8:10 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:53 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 7:26 pm

Agreed. Lawrence is an example of what I was spouting about on the other thread. He's good - decent to use your word. But, he's not outstanding (yet?). If a better prospect comes on the scene it would be tough for him in some ways but there is no doubt that two top standard centres would transform the team. For now, SB must see him as a work in progress. There's more to come but he could well be overtaken.

Kin ell, been crying out for a top centre pairing for decades. Even a couple of complimentary players with rounded skill sets would be nice.

What do you think of Freeman at 13 in the current defence system?

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 10:55 am I think Lawrence has looked ok at 12 so far. Defensively he's made his hits and in attack he can exploit a well timed pop to burst through half a gap. He's not in the Aki etc style of 12 that'll just bash a gap if there isn't one but whilst we've got good passing flyhalfs that shouldn't be so much of an issue.

Freeman is pretty nimble on his feet for a big lad. Anticipating when to race out of the line and when to stay connected will be the big ask. For Slade's errors in games he's not made many errors in regard to that. If you get it wrong it's pretty obvious.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 12:46 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 10:55 am I think Lawrence has looked ok at 12 so far. Defensively he's made his hits and in attack he can exploit a well timed pop to burst through half a gap. He's not in the Aki etc style of 12 that'll just bash a gap if there isn't one but whilst we've got good passing flyhalfs that shouldn't be so much of an issue.

Freeman is pretty nimble on his feet for a big lad. Anticipating when to race out of the line and when to stay connected will be the big ask. For Slade's errors in games he's not made many errors in regard to that. If you get it wrong it's pretty obvious.

His hands have looked poor imo.


Nimble ‘for a big lad’ is the key bit.

LongForgotten wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 2:35 pm Walters is leaving for Ireland! Bollocks.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:53 pm Apparently his partner is Irish and that's partly behind wanting to relocate.

Timbo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:18 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:53 pm Apparently his partner is Irish and that's partly behind wanting to relocate.

I think it’s also the extra 2 weeks holiday he’ll now get every World Cup year.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:51 pm

LongForgotten wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 2:35 pm Walters is leaving for Ireland! Bollocks.

. . . he's supposed to be a big figure off the field . . . .

Timbo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:18 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:53 pm Apparently his partner is Irish and that's partly behind wanting to relocate.

I think it’s also the extra 2 weeks holiday he’ll now get every World Cup year.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:48 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:51 pm

LongForgotten wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 2:35 pm Walters is leaving for Ireland! Bollocks.

. . . he's supposed to be a big figure off the field . . . .

I read something similar but being a cynic it came across (from player quotes) as a bit too cosy. Maybe, I'm old-fashioned (scrub the 'maybe'), but aren't fitness coaches supposed to be whip-crackers? There is certainly room for improvement in stamina over 80 minutes for quite a few players.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:09 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:48 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:51 pm

. . . he's supposed to be a big figure off the field . . . .

I read something similar but being a cynic it came across (from player quotes) as a bit too cosy. Maybe, I'm old-fashioned (scrub the 'maybe'), but aren't fitness coaches supposed to be whip-crackers? There is certainly room for improvement in stamina over 80 minutes for quite a few players.

I dunno we don't really fade in matches.

Danno wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 10:10 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:09 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:48 pm

I read something similar but being a cynic it came across (from player quotes) as a bit too cosy. Maybe, I'm old-fashioned (scrub the 'maybe'), but aren't fitness coaches supposed to be whip-crackers? There is certainly room for improvement in stamina over 80 minutes for quite a few players.

I dunno we don't really fade in matches.

That's certainly a take. Can't really bring to mind a match where we finished stronger at the end than the start in a couple years. And the general trend is probably more like 7-8 years. A lot of that is down to personnel so I'm not having a go, but it just doesn't ring true for me. Our bench has been wank for ages now.

Danno wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 10:10 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:09 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:48 pm

I read something similar but being a cynic it came across (from player quotes) as a bit too cosy. Maybe, I'm old-fashioned (scrub the 'maybe'), but aren't fitness coaches supposed to be whip-crackers? There is certainly room for improvement in stamina over 80 minutes for quite a few players.

I dunno we don't really fade in matches.

That's certainly a take. Can't really bring to mind a match where we finished stronger at the end than the start in a couple years. And the general trend is probably more like 7-8 years. A lot of that is down to personnel so I'm not having a go, but it just doesn't ring true for me. Our bench has been wank for ages now.

Danno wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2024 12:31 pm Very true, which makes Aled's move to Ireland rather frustrating

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 8:09 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 4:48 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 3:51 pm

. . . he's supposed to be a big figure off the field . . . .

I read something similar but being a cynic it came across (from player quotes) as a bit too cosy. Maybe, I'm old-fashioned (scrub the 'maybe'), but aren't fitness coaches supposed to be whip-crackers? There is certainly room for improvement in stamina over 80 minutes for quite a few players.

I dunno we don't really fade in matches.

I remember Freddie Burns telling stories of his time at Tigers and talking about Walters as being a bit of an eccentric. Turned up to his first day at Tigers wearing his world cup winners medal as he knew he could use it to wind up Borthwick and some of the England players. Used to heckle the briefings if he thought they were going on to long. That and he'd flog the players who'd take it because they'd be laughing with him in between the hurting.