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Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:37 pm
by Mikey Brown
I can’t say I’d thought this law needed to change, but my hope would be the chance of more regular/clean ball would encourage teams to attack more (than push for penalties) off scrums.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:49 pm
by Banquo
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:29 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:21 pm
On the 9 law, imo its unnecessary
In what sense? It's the most exciting law change in a while to my mind, so I'm interested to know what's making you go Meh.
Puja
exciting and law change rarely go together. What problem are you solving?
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:36 pm
by Danno
Just caught this and Willis is obscene. 2 tries sure, but he was everywhere
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:37 pm
by Puja
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:49 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:29 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:21 pm
On the 9 law, imo its unnecessary
In what sense? It's the most exciting law change in a while to my mind, so I'm interested to know what's making you go Meh.
Puja
exciting and law change rarely go together. What problem are you solving?
The lack of clean ball from a scrum because 9s are currently allowed (and expected) to clamber all over an 8 and prevent a clean pick from the base. The aim is that it'll incentivise using a dominant scrum as an attacking platform, rather than just a mill for penalties, as well as enabling a dominated scrum an opportunity for a quick strike and 8-pick, rather than every scrum becoming a penalty.
Puja
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:37 pm
by Puja
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:36 pm
Just caught this and Willis is obscene. 2 tries sure, but he was
everywhere
What on earth are you doing talking about the match on a match thread?!? Someone call a mod!
Puja
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:47 pm
by Danno
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:37 pm
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:36 pm
Just caught this and Willis is obscene. 2 tries sure, but he was
everywhere
What on earth are you doing talking about the match on a match thread?!? Someone call a mod!
Puja
I think he should play 12 tbh
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:57 pm
by Danno
Oh and even if van Rensberg was English born and bred for six generations: not with that fookin' mullet, mate.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:47 pm
by Mikey Brown
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:57 pm
Oh and even if van Rensberg was English born and bred for six generations: not with that fookin' mullet, mate.
Saying what we’re all too scared to say in this current climate. Good on you.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:30 pm
by oldbackrow
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:47 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:37 pm
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:36 pm
Just caught this and Willis is obscene. 2 tries sure, but he was
everywhere
What on earth are you doing talking about the match on a match thread?!? Someone call a mod!
Puja
I think he should play 12 tbh
Willis at inside centre and Earl at outside centre?
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:22 pm
by Danno
oldbackrow wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:30 pm
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:47 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:37 pm
What on earth are you doing talking about the match on a match thread?!? Someone call a mod!
Puja
I think he should play 12 tbh
Willis at inside centre and Earl at outside centre?
Let's do it. And burn all the mullets
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:40 pm
by Which Tyler
oldbackrow wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:30 pm
Willis at inside centre and Earl at outside centre?
But where does that leave for Barbeary?
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:22 pm
Let's do it. And burn all the mullets
Who's going to break the news at the Southern tip of the M5?
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 12:34 pm
by Banquo
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:37 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:49 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:29 pm
In what sense? It's the most exciting law change in a while to my mind, so I'm interested to know what's making you go Meh.
Puja
exciting and law change rarely go together. What problem are you solving?
The lack of clean ball from a scrum because 9s are currently allowed (and expected) to clamber all over an 8 and prevent a clean pick from the base. The aim is that it'll incentivise using a dominant scrum as an attacking platform, rather than just a mill for penalties, as well as enabling a dominated scrum an opportunity for a quick strike and 8-pick, rather than every scrum becoming a penalty.
Puja
Not sure it’s a big deal frankly. Rob’s Peter to pay Paul as usual with law fiddling.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:26 pm
by Mellsblue
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 12:34 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:37 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:49 pm
exciting and law change rarely go together. What problem are you solving?
The lack of clean ball from a scrum because 9s are currently allowed (and expected) to clamber all over an 8 and prevent a clean pick from the base. The aim is that it'll incentivise using a dominant scrum as an attacking platform, rather than just a mill for penalties, as well as enabling a dominated scrum an opportunity for a quick strike and 8-pick, rather than every scrum becoming a penalty.
Puja
Not sure it’s a big deal frankly. Rob’s Peter to pay Paul as usual with law fiddling.
The best thing about law changes is watching the unintended consequences.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:34 pm
by Mikey Brown
What’s the obvious way this scrum law backfires that I’m not seeing?
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:50 pm
by Banquo
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:34 pm
What’s the obvious way this scrum law backfires that I’m not seeing?
... I think the 'unintended consequences' part covers that question
. My view is that its not needed.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:58 pm
by Mellsblue
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:34 pm
What’s the obvious way this scrum law backfires that I’m not seeing?
The unintended way.
But it might not. In which case, huzza.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 4:16 pm
by Mikey Brown
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:50 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:34 pm
What’s the obvious way this scrum law backfires that I’m not seeing?
... I think the 'unintended consequences' part covers that question
. My view is that its not needed.
Is unintended the same as unpredictable now? Who is the ‘Peter’ getting robbed in your analogy?
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 8:20 pm
by oldbackrow
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:40 pm
oldbackrow wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:30 pm
Willis at inside centre and Earl at outside centre?
But where does that leave for Barbeary?
Danno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:22 pm
Let's do it. And burn all the mullets
Who's going to break the news at the Southern tip of the M5?
Barbeary can go in at 10, move CCS and Curry to the wing and you have a perfect combination for attack and defence!
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 10:25 pm
by Mellsblue
Barbeary at hooker might be interesting.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:51 am
by Banquo
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 4:16 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:50 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:34 pm
What’s the obvious way this scrum law backfires that I’m not seeing?
... I think the 'unintended consequences' part covers that question
. My view is that its not needed.
Is unintended the same as unpredictable now? Who is the ‘Peter’ getting robbed in your analogy?
the point is unintended in the whole thing (for example it may change what you look for in a 9; getting the ball away from the base under pressure is a skill set, as is the harassing side of it)- my objection is that it's a solution looking for a problem. Yet another sop to removing contests in order 'to make the game more attractive;.
Its a fair but pedantic point on unintended/unpredictable; but there certainly have been (seemingly) unpredictable AND unintended consequences in some law changes.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:54 am
by Banquo
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 10:25 pm
Barbeary at hooker might be interesting.
shame that train has sailed
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:17 pm
by Mikey Brown
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:51 am
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 4:16 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 3:50 pm
... I think the 'unintended consequences' part covers that question
. My view is that its not needed.
Is unintended the same as unpredictable now? Who is the ‘Peter’ getting robbed in your analogy?
the point is unintended in the whole thing (for example it may change what you look for in a 9; getting the ball away from the base under pressure is a skill set, as is the harassing side of it)- my objection is that it's a solution looking for a problem. Yet another sop to removing contests in order 'to make the game more attractive;.
Its a fair but pedantic point on unintended/unpredictable; but there certainly have been (seemingly) unpredictable AND unintended consequences in some law changes.
Fair enough. I agree we've seen people adapt to new laws in undesired ways (in terms of opening the game up) but felt like I was missing an obvious loophole/strategy that could be used here.
I wonder if it is considered a conscious move to depower the defensive scrum (because we're all conspiring to take down SA) rather than simply open up space to attack. Good point about the harrying element of the 9's game, it must seem weird to have that role simply disappear, but it's hard to imagine that will make a huge difference to selection in comparison to the other qualities needed.
Re: Bristol Vs Sarries
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:36 pm
by Banquo
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:17 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2025 11:51 am
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 4:16 pm
Is unintended the same as unpredictable now? Who is the ‘Peter’ getting robbed in your analogy?
the point is unintended in the whole thing (for example it may change what you look for in a 9; getting the ball away from the base under pressure is a skill set, as is the harassing side of it)- my objection is that it's a solution looking for a problem. Yet another sop to removing contests in order 'to make the game more attractive;.
Its a fair but pedantic point on unintended/unpredictable; but there certainly have been (seemingly) unpredictable AND unintended consequences in some law changes.
Fair enough. I agree we've seen people adapt to new laws in undesired ways (in terms of opening the game up) but felt like I was missing an obvious loophole/strategy that could be used here.
I wonder if it is considered a conscious move to depower the defensive scrum (because we're all conspiring to take down SA) rather than simply open up space to attack. Good point about the harrying element of the 9's game, it must seem weird to have that role simply disappear, but it's hard to imagine that will make a huge difference to selection in comparison to the other qualities needed.
I think it would make a difference on taking away the skill of getting the ball away from a scrum going right to left for example. I tend to agree on the depowering bit, but that’s the un.. something part.