Premiership Predictions Thread 2016-17

[Puja]

How do you define least effective signing?

For me it'd be some combination of money spent, talent, and expectation as to what they should be delivering. Which for this season would leave me with 3 props to choose from, Marty Moore, Pat Cilliers, and for me the man who take home the prize Greg Holmes. At least I can't believe they went after Holmes in the expectation they'd be paying him much more and playing him much less than Williams, and tbh Holmes looks third choice behind Francis too though in advance maybe Vs Francis it was expected to be closer

Holmes is a great shout actually, although I'd say a key component of the Jerome Schuster award is that the signing made little or no difference to their club's season and Holmes at least gave Francis and Williams a rest every now and again.

I picked the Armitage/De Luca combo because they were so blatantly superfluous - they might not have cost much money, but the return on that was the square root of f*ck all. They underperformed even on mediocre expectations.

Puja

[Raggs]

Armitage was clearly not a signing designed for immediate impact though, and neither was De Luca. Without them being seemingly frontline signings, it's tough to know what their hoped for impact was, and if they met that. De Luca spent a large amount of time out injured too.

I like Digby's definition, but would agree that being injured isn't perhaps a fair thing to lay at a players feet. I think that definition would also remove Armitage and De Luca from serious consideration.

Moore isn't a bad shout, lots of niggling injuries, he's been OK but not great, and would have been on decent tighthead cash. Holmes however I think could potentially be a fantastic call. Can't have been on small money, and seems to be 3rd choice behind someone signed form the championship last season, and another ex-championship player from 2? seasons ago, and I don't think he's been injured that much either.

Who'd have thought Campagnaro would have been a fantastic winner a couple of seasons ago...

[Digby]

How do you define least effective signing?

For me it'd be some combination of money spent, talent, and expectation as to what they should be delivering. Which for this season would leave me with 3 props to choose from, Marty Moore, Pat Cilliers, and for me the man who take home the prize Greg Holmes. At least I can't believe they went after Holmes in the expectation they'd be paying him much more and playing him much less than Williams, and tbh Holmes looks third choice behind Francis too though in advance maybe Vs Francis it was expected to be closer

Holmes is a great shout actually, although I'd say a key component of the Jerome Schuster award is that the signing made little or no difference to their club's season and Holmes at least gave Francis and Williams a rest every now and again.

I picked the Armitage/De Luca combo because they were so blatantly superfluous - they might not have cost much money, but the return on that was the square root of f*ck all. They underperformed even on mediocre expectations.

Puja

That's what you sign PDJ to do for as little as possible is my thinking, not a current supposed decent test standard tighthead. Interesting too in that Baxter has spent money on the likes of Campagnaro and now Holmes for not much return and still had enough to get his squad over the line as AP champions, and Baxter has also built a squad with a seeming surfeit of centres which isn't ideal, that's not to criticise Baxter it's more to say there's room for improvement

[Digby]

Armitage was clearly not a signing designed for immediate impact though, and neither was De Luca. Without them being seemingly frontline signings, it's tough to know what their hoped for impact was, and if they met that. De Luca spent a large amount of time out injured too.

I like Digby's definition, but would agree that being injured isn't perhaps a fair thing to lay at a players feet. I think that definition would also remove Armitage and De Luca from serious consideration.

Moore isn't a bad shout, lots of niggling injuries, he's been OK but not great, and would have been on decent tighthead cash. Holmes however I think could potentially be a fantastic call. Can't have been on small money, and seems to be 3rd choice behind someone signed form the championship last season, and another ex-championship player from 2? seasons ago, and I don't think he's been injured that much either.

Who'd have thought Campagnaro would have been a fantastic winner a couple of seasons ago...

Additionally I'd guess Exeter were hoping for more from Dennis when he was signed. Maybe Dennis is starting to deliver, and maybe Holmes will have a much better 2nd season being more aware now of just how attritional the NH season is. Exeter have had a few knocks in the back row this season, and sadly lost Ewers again the other week, but from the start of the season I'm sure they were looking for Dennis to deliver the big performances, in the event it's been Horstmann who'd stepped up to cover injuries and help his team rack up the wins, and I don't imagine many had Kai down as being a key player 10 months ago.

[Stom]

I think you can easily add most of Quins' signings...

Reddish, Naoupu, Roberts, Jackson... none of them did much if anything.

[Digby]

I think you can easily add most of Quins' signings...

Reddish, Naoupu, Roberts, Jackson... none of them did much if anything.

But having joined Quins have they under delivered, or just risen to the heights of normal for Quins?

[Stom]

I think you can easily add most of Quins' signings...

Reddish, Naoupu, Roberts, Jackson... none of them did much if anything.

But having joined Quins have they under delivered, or just risen to the heights of normal for Quins?

haha, haha, haha. Hilarious!

[Digby]

I think you can easily add most of Quins' signings...

Reddish, Naoupu, Roberts, Jackson... none of them did much if anything.

But having joined Quins have they under delivered, or just risen to the heights of normal for Quins?

haha, haha, haha. Hilarious!

Which of them could have been reasonably expected to play 20+ games in the first XV, which of them in doing so could have been reasonably expected to add value to how Quins play? And actually what even are the aims for Quins? It all feels a bit like Glaws, signings are made 'cause some players are available, even some big name signings, but there doesn't seem to be an overarching aim as to how the players should be utilised and where that could take them. If Quins are wanting to aim for a home semi-final or close then they're looking to average scoring 5 points a game more and conceding 5 points a game less, basically a try either way, and that's a big shift.

Progress at Quins seems to have been replaced by hanging onto what big name players they have and the odd younger player coming through, and like Gloucester I've no sense next season will be any different. And this was the case when from back when COS was there, so it's not just come about in a vacuum since he left. So yes Sinckler and Marchant look the business, but that looks of much more importance to England than Quins, and that needs to change.

Edit - I see Evans will be the attack coach, not really a surprise and he might even go well. Doesn't mean there'll be a big picture though.

[Mikey Brown]

I may be wrong but I think Stom, like me, has been pretty frustrated with our lack of direction and quality signings for a while.

Jackson has/had the ability to be a very able replacement for Evans and cover 15, but just doesn't seem to have the temperament or settle well in to what we're doing- assuming our coaches this season have any idea what we're trying to do.

Horwill has been great. But if Matthews is the best option alongside that is only half a second row we've got. Jones has done a good job with Sinkler it seems. Roberts was bought on reputation and was a big mistake.

[Stom]

I may be wrong but I think Stom, like me, has been pretty frustrated with our lack of direction and quality signings for a while.

Jackson has/had the ability to be a very able replacement for Evans and cover 15, but just doesn't seem to have the temperament or settle well in to what we're doing- assuming our coaches this season have any idea what we're trying to do.

Horwill has been great. But if Matthews is the best option alongside that is only half a second row we've got. Jones has done a good job with Sinkler it seems. Roberts was bought on reputation and was a big mistake.

Indeed.

It just seems like, instead of spending on a couple of really top class players, we spread the cap around a load of dross. Players like the aforementioned Reddish, Naoupu, Jackson, etc. Plus add in players like Winston Stanley, Alofa Alofa, Talei, Luamanu, Evans (the prop, yeah, we have a prop called Evans, have you ever seen him?), etc...and we're just useless at using our cap right.

And then, when NEv, surely our big earner, retires, we replace him with Montpellier's 3rd choice. And don't sign a replacement marquee.

It's insanity.

[Scrumhead]

I may be wrong but I think Stom, like me, has been pretty frustrated with our lack of direction and quality signings for a while.

Jackson has/had the ability to be a very able replacement for Evans and cover 15, but just doesn't seem to have the temperament or settle well in to what we're doing- assuming our coaches this season have any idea what we're trying to do.

Horwill has been great. But if Matthews is the best option alongside that is only half a second row we've got. Jones has done a good job with Sinkler it seems. Roberts was bought on reputation and was a big mistake.

Indeed.

It just seems like, instead of spending on a couple of really top class players, we spread the cap around a load of dross. Players like the aforementioned Reddish, Naoupu, Jackson, etc. Plus add in players like Winston Stanley, Alofa Alofa, Talei, Luamanu, Evans (the prop, yeah, we have a prop called Evans, have you ever seen him?), etc...and we're just useless at using our cap right.

And then, when NEv, surely our big earner, retires, we replace him with Montpellier's 3rd choice. And don't sign a replacement marquee.

It's insanity.

Unless Saili is confirmed, our transfer business will have been wholly underwhelming yet again. I believe it is based upon some bizarre belief that we can eke out something amazing from unheralded players. Moneyball if you will ...

Swainston is a reasonable acquisition but I'm not really sold on Catrakilis or Bothma.

Luamanu was actually OK last season so it's a touch unfair to include him in the dross list, but we have way too many anonymous/rubbish Stanley-types.

[p/d]

Just having a Winston Stanley is worth the fee

[Stom]

I may be wrong but I think Stom, like me, has been pretty frustrated with our lack of direction and quality signings for a while.

Jackson has/had the ability to be a very able replacement for Evans and cover 15, but just doesn't seem to have the temperament or settle well in to what we're doing- assuming our coaches this season have any idea what we're trying to do.

Horwill has been great. But if Matthews is the best option alongside that is only half a second row we've got. Jones has done a good job with Sinkler it seems. Roberts was bought on reputation and was a big mistake.

Indeed.

It just seems like, instead of spending on a couple of really top class players, we spread the cap around a load of dross. Players like the aforementioned Reddish, Naoupu, Jackson, etc. Plus add in players like Winston Stanley, Alofa Alofa, Talei, Luamanu, Evans (the prop, yeah, we have a prop called Evans, have you ever seen him?), etc...and we're just useless at using our cap right.

And then, when NEv, surely our big earner, retires, we replace him with Montpellier's 3rd choice. And don't sign a replacement marquee.

It's insanity.

Unless Saili is confirmed, our transfer business will have been wholly underwhelming yet again. I believe it is based upon some bizarre belief that we can eke out something amazing from unheralded players. Moneyball if you will ...

Swainston is a reasonable acquisition but I'm not really sold on Catrakilis or Bothma.

Luamanu was actually OK last season so it's a touch unfair to include him in the dross list, but we have way too many anonymous/rubbish Stanley-types.

But that's the problem. What's the point of spending so much on someone who is literally squad filler? Was he better than James Chisholm? No, so why sign him?