RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

fivepointer wrote:It is good. I find the style a touch irritating at times but he is mostly spot on. He's a a bit harsh on Furbank. The guy was on debut and didnt settle that well but you have to cut a player a bit of slack in a generally misfiring team.

I think the salient point- and it was my fear beforehand- of that on Furbank, tache aside, is the pace of test rugby came as a shock. It seems to surprise a lot of our players from time to time.

What's the alternative way of introducing him, though? Off the bench for 20? Circumstances more or less dictated him being thrown in at the deep end when Watson dropped out. As a matter of interest, to what extent do you think age group internationals provide a base preparation?

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

fivepointer wrote:It is good. I find the style a touch irritating at times but he is mostly spot on. He's a a bit harsh on Furbank. The guy was on debut and didnt settle that well but you have to cut a player a bit of slack in a generally misfiring team.

I think the salient point- and it was my fear beforehand- of that on Furbank, tache aside, is the pace of test rugby came as a shock. It seems to surprise a lot of our players from time to time.

What's the alternative way of introducing him, though? Off the bench for 20? Circumstances more or less dictated him being thrown in at the deep end when Watson dropped out. As a matter of interest, to what extent do you think age group internationals provide a base preparation?

Daly could have played, with Thorley debuting, but yes you can’t really avoid being chucked in- there are easier places to start though. I haven’t got an answer- I’d really love the AP to be a better general quality comp.
I don’t think intl age group rugby preps you that well for senior rugby, though obviously it’s a miles better than not playing there. Step change.

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: I think the salient point- and it was my fear beforehand- of that on Furbank, tache aside, is the pace of test rugby came as a shock. It seems to surprise a lot of our players from time to time.

What's the alternative way of introducing him, though? Off the bench for 20? Circumstances more or less dictated him being thrown in at the deep end when Watson dropped out. As a matter of interest, to what extent do you think age group internationals provide a base preparation?

Daly could have played, with Thorley debuting, but yes you can’t really avoid being chucked in- there are easier places to start though. I haven’t got an answer- I’d really love the AP to be a better general quality comp.
I don’t think intl age group rugby preps you that well for senior rugby, though obviously it’s a miles better than not playing there. Step change.

And, some players can step up even with the big gap. That's where the coach's judgement counts most. Jones is reported as saying Furbank excelled in training. Weird that, IMO, but I don't need much encouragement to doubt Jones's judgement.

Ever since I first saw him, I've reckoned that Ibitoye would make the step comfortably.

I will note as well that we are currently damning Furbank for not stepping up on the basis of an away game in the rain in France, where the rest of the team also had a shocker and where he dropped an early pass and his head clearly went down. It was a tough day, but he could bounce back straight away.

I will also note that he faced a one-on-one with a French winger in space and he brought him down, which instantly puts him ahead of Daly in my mind.

Puja

Puja wrote:I will note as well that we are currently damning Furbank for not stepping up on the basis of an away game in the rain in France, where the rest of the team also had a shocker and where he dropped an early pass and his head clearly went down. It was a tough day, but he could bounce back straight away.

I will also note that he faced a one-on-one with a French winger in space and he brought him down, which instantly puts him ahead of Daly in my mind.

Puja

Fair point. Plus, I think his drops need to be judged in the context of Farrell's.

Puja wrote:I will note as well that we are currently damning Furbank for not stepping up on the basis of an away game in the rain in France, where the rest of the team also had a shocker and where he dropped an early pass and his head clearly went down. It was a tough day, but he could bounce back straight away.

I will also note that he faced a one-on-one with a French winger in space and he brought him down, which instantly puts him ahead of Daly in my mind.

Puja

I’m not damning him, more sympathising, plus did give the context of France away. The video was harsh, other than WW1 tache and the weird running line; the ball he spilled which blew the 2 on 1 would have been tricky in the dry, whether he overran is marginal.

I’m saying I had concerns that did play out, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have been tried, and good on Eddie for persisting (though Scotland away in the wind and rain......); I also think he is not the average AP player they make him out to be.

I am however damning Youngs, when I know you think he was awesome

Give up, Banquo. You'll never get through Puja's shield of Tigers bias.

Puja wrote:I will note as well that we are currently damning Furbank for not stepping up on the basis of an away game in the rain in France, where the rest of the team also had a shocker and where he dropped an early pass and his head clearly went down. It was a tough day, but he could bounce back straight away.

I will also note that he faced a one-on-one with a French winger in space and he brought him down, which instantly puts him ahead of Daly in my mind.

Puja

I'm not damning Furbank, I think he made no more mistakes than other, more established players. I just think picking him was a mistake and Thorley should have been picked. But now he's been picked, he should be stuck with.

Banquo wrote:I haven’t got an answer- I’d really love the AP to be a better general quality comp.

I have a suggestion to make...

Oakboy wrote:I still don't know how Kruis failed to get the ball down but the rest of it was thought provoking.

The part where Ford is waving his arms in anger was just what I have been whingeing about for ages. Can he not shout loud enough? Do the other players like ignoring him? Why is he not getting his way in such an obvious scenario? Are they programmed to only listen to Farrell?

Other questions, the video did not answer.

What did Underhill contribute, for example? Was he stymied by not having Curry to share the work with or did he just have a bad game?

Another thought, has Jones buggered up Daly completely by picking him at FB or can he rediscover his form as one of the best wingers in the game?

Furbank wanted his hands on the ball, who can blame him, but he needs to be more aware.

Ford couldn't do anything more than he did.

I imagine he's secretly keeping Just For Men in business playing outside Youngs for club and country...

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:I haven’t got an answer- I’d really love the AP to be a better general quality comp.

I have a suggestion to make...

Banquo wrote:I am however damning Youngs, when I know you think he was awesome.

You're lucky I'm too lazy to sue for defamation. That kind of callous calumny would ruin my good reputation, if I had one.

Puja

Recall that Eddy did play George Smith at 8 including in a certain World Cup final.

jngf wrote:Recall that Eddy did play George Smith at 8 including in a certain World Cup final.

He's played quite a lot at 8. He played 6 nominally in the 2003 final, alongside Phil Waugh at 7.

Mikey Brown wrote:Right. Hadn't actually watched that video when I posted it. I'm 8 minutes in and it's very good.

Adds an interesting bit of context to a) Ford is too quiet b) Ford threw a stupid pass to May out on the right when he had nowhere to go.

Almost whenever you go back and re-watch an England game with Ford at 10 you see that he’s had a really good game. He’s potentially the single most under rated England player of the professional era.

On the “England didn’t look like scoring except for May’ brilliance”, it’s kind of odd as we got over the line twice more and were held up. That’s literally as close to looking like scoring, without actually scoring as you can get.

Also, the Furbank line does look odd and possibly a poor decision. But he actually commits Rattez and if Youngs had passed to Ford he would have jogged under the posts.

I’m not totally convinced Furbank will become a really good test player, although I’m sure he has the talent to survive at this level if given the chance to adapt. That’s partly about the step up from club rugby to Test, but also about his particular attributes. Test rugby is increasingly a game for brilliant and freakish athletes. He’s not a brilliant, freakish athlete.

Nobody was talking about the speed or quality of the Prem during Joe Cokanasiga’s first few tests, while he was skittling players and creating havoc almost every time he got the ball. I expect Thorley, for example, might be someone who could very quickly look at home in international rugby- because he’s very quick, strong, big, powerful etc. I fear Furbank might be lacking a crucial few percent in the athletic stakes to impose himself at the highest level.

Timbo wrote:I’m not totally convinced Furbank will become a really good test player, although I’m sure he has the talent to survive at this level if given the chance to adapt. That’s partly about the step up from club rugby to Test, but also about his particular attributes. Test rugby is increasingly a game for brilliant and freakish athletes. He’s not a brilliant, freakish athlete.

Nobody was talking about the speed or quality of the Prem during Joe Cokanasiga’s first few tests, while he was skittling players and creating havoc almost every time he got the ball. I expect Thorley, for example, might be someone who could very quickly look at home in international rugby- because he’s very quick, strong, big, powerful etc. I fear Furbank might be lacking a crucial few percent in the athletic stakes to impose himself at the highest level.

So you dont think its a big step up? Or that its just too big for some who are looking good at AP level? Have to say I did say I had reservations over Georges physical abilities before he made the squad- he is skilful and reads the game well generally so fingers crossed

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:I’m not totally convinced Furbank will become a really good test player, although I’m sure he has the talent to survive at this level if given the chance to adapt. That’s partly about the step up from club rugby to Test, but also about his particular attributes. Test rugby is increasingly a game for brilliant and freakish athletes. He’s not a brilliant, freakish athlete.

Nobody was talking about the speed or quality of the Prem during Joe Cokanasiga’s first few tests, while he was skittling players and creating havoc almost every time he got the ball. I expect Thorley, for example, might be someone who could very quickly look at home in international rugby- because he’s very quick, strong, big, powerful etc. I fear Furbank might be lacking a crucial few percent in the athletic stakes to impose himself at the highest level.

So you dont think its a big step up? Or that its just too big for some who are looking good at AP level? Have to say I did say I had reservations over Georges physical abilities before he made the squad- he is skilful and reads the game well generally so fingers crossed

It does seem like physical attributes can overcome a lack of technical ability somewhat...

Frustratingly.

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Timbo wrote:I’m not totally convinced Furbank will become a really good test player, although I’m sure he has the talent to survive at this level if given the chance to adapt. That’s partly about the step up from club rugby to Test, but also about his particular attributes. Test rugby is increasingly a game for brilliant and freakish athletes. He’s not a brilliant, freakish athlete.

Nobody was talking about the speed or quality of the Prem during Joe Cokanasiga’s first few tests, while he was skittling players and creating havoc almost every time he got the ball. I expect Thorley, for example, might be someone who could very quickly look at home in international rugby- because he’s very quick, strong, big, powerful etc. I fear Furbank might be lacking a crucial few percent in the athletic stakes to impose himself at the highest level.

So you dont think its a big step up? Or that its just too big for some who are looking good at AP level? Have to say I did say I had reservations over Georges physical abilities before he made the squad- he is skilful and reads the game well generally so fingers crossed

It does seem like physical attributes can overcome a lack of technical ability somewhat...

Frustratingly.

Frustratingly? If that's what concerns then walking tag rugby is a thing

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote: So you dont think its a big step up? Or that its just too big for some who are looking good at AP level? Have to say I did say I had reservations over Georges physical abilities before he made the squad- he is skilful and reads the game well generally so fingers crossed

It does seem like physical attributes can overcome a lack of technical ability somewhat...

Frustratingly.

Frustratingly? If that's what concerns then walking tag rugby is a thing

I’d imagine that’s the most frustrating game in the world.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:
It does seem like physical attributes can overcome a lack of technical ability somewhat...

Frustratingly.

Frustratingly? If that's what concerns then walking tag rugby is a thing

I’d imagine that’s the most frustrating game in the world.

Well I'd rather just go for a walk. But on the off chance people aren't all like me and actually like other people it seems to meet some measure of activity, some measure of using the structure and skills of rugby and it's a social activity

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:
Frustratingly? If that's what concerns then walking tag rugby is a thing

I’d imagine that’s the most frustrating game in the world.

Well I'd rather just go for a walk. But on the off chance people aren't all like me and actually like other people it seems to meet some measure of activity, some measure of using the structure and skills of rugby and it's a social activity

None of which precludes it from being frustrating.
Also, would you let me know if the pope is catholic.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: I’d imagine that’s the most frustrating game in the world.

Well I'd rather just go for a walk. But on the off chance people aren't all like me and actually like other people it seems to meet some measure of activity, some measure of using the structure and skills of rugby and it's a social activity

None of which precludes it from being frustrating.
Also, would you let me know if the pope is catholic.

You mean as well as shitting in the woods?

tigran wrote:

p/d wrote:

tigran wrote:
Cheers p/d

Where's you great secretary of an avatar ?

I would like to take credit for that but, alas, I believe the avatar belonged to Oakboy.

Really ? The brunette with an engaging décolleté wasn't your avatar ?

Where' s oakboy ?

This the one?

Oakboy wrote:

tigran wrote:

p/d wrote: I would like to take credit for that but, alas, I believe the avatar belonged to Oakboy.

Really ? The brunette with an engaging décolleté wasn't your avatar ?

Where' s oakboy ?

This the one?

YES !! YOUHOU !