Stade de France Saturday 19th March

[Stom]

lol. It basically says we were crap this 6n. As take this 6n out and we’ve played 4 without Farrell, winning 3 and losing 1…

[Mikey Brown]

I’m not arguing for it one way or the other, just seemed like it’s worth sharing. My memory of what games/teams we were without him isn’t good enough to form an opinion.

[Mikey Brown]

lol. It basically says we were crap this 6n. As take this 6n out and we’ve played 4 without Farrell, winning 3 and losing 1…

Well that’s a good point, not that I’ve checked the numbers.

[Mellsblue]

England has qualified from the group stage of 50% of the World Cups Farrell has played in. Conversely, England has qualified from the group stage at 100% of the World Cups Singleton has played in.

[Mikey Brown]

Do you want me to delete the post? Would that make you happy?

[Mellsblue]

Look, you can’t come on here with a graphic based stat without a title setting out context in micro detail and no Harvard referencing system. You should also know that nothing is truly deleted on the internet.

[Oakboy]

At this point there are 14 matches to go before the RWC. 1. What is our best XV today, assuming all are injury-free? 2. What will be our best XV in 14 matches time? 3. To be the most effective team, should 1 and 2 not be exactly the same? 4. Should any experimentation from now on be just as back-up? 5. How far off is Jones from knowing any of the answers 1 - 4?

I reckon one certain answer is that Jones believes Farrell will be in 1 and 2.

[Which Tyler]

The thing is... individually, Slade is a step up on Farrell at 12; individually, Marchant is a step up on Slade at 13, but... Farrell seems to be a step up on no-Farrell in terms of team cohesion, which seems to be the major failing of this campaign.

[Mellsblue]

The thing is... individually, Slade is a step up on Farrell at 12; individually, Marchant is a step up on Slade at 13, but... Farrell seems to be a step up on no-Farrell in terms of team cohesion, which seems to be the major failing of this campaign.

Would this still be the case in 12/18 months time if we stick with Smith-Slade-Marchant? If you make such radical changes to a team (because your succession planning is shoite) then the short term will always be difficult but, given the current climate, all that matters is autumn 2023 in France. If all we want is cohesion then stick with Youngs-Ford-Farrell for the next 18 months.
Given we’re we are and the results of the last 8 weeks, I’d actually back either approach but would prefer Randall/Quirke-Smith-Slade and, IMO, their higher ceiling.

[Stom]

At this point there are 14 matches to go before the RWC. 1. What is our best XV today, assuming all are injury-free? 2. What will be our best XV in 14 matches time? 3. To be the most effective team, should 1 and 2 not be exactly the same? 4. Should any experimentation from now on be just as back-up? 5. How far off is Jones from knowing any of the answers 1 - 4?

I reckon one certain answer is that Jones believes Farrell will be in 1 and 2.

Should it, though?

I mean, wasn't the stat that most WC Final winning teams have never played together? Or was that just England 2003? Simple fact is, it's more about units and having trained/played with each other, rather than having a set in stone XV. If everyone has a clear idea of what they need to do, they should be able to slot in. See the performances in the football. Man City and Liverpool never keep the same XI game on game, yet they play the way they're meant to every time.

[Stom]

The thing is... individually, Slade is a step up on Farrell at 12; individually, Marchant is a step up on Slade at 13, but... Farrell seems to be a step up on no-Farrell in terms of team cohesion, which seems to be the major failing of this campaign.

Is he? Or is it literally just that this 6N, Jones' attack plan has been "shovel the ball onto Smith and see what he can do", while giving him no direct runners in the backs...

I fail to see the correlation between the two, tbh. We've only had 4 games without Farrell until this 6N, and we've won 3 of them.

[Raggs]

I don't remember Slade carrying the ball much, in terms of straightening the line. If at all. Though I wasn't watching for it that much. Farrell has been improving that aspect of his game, and can no longer be simply ignored. He also drives the players, you can always hear him over the ref mic. I bet that even at international, like merit league level, having that guy constantly encouraging and pushing you to keep going helps get you back in place and going again.

For me, Farrell is now a solid international 12. He's no great, but he's a solid enough option there, and seemingly a good leader. I do think we missed out by not having him. I don't know if he's the best option we have though, and it's more than possible Slade is better.

We do still need to big carriers in the backs though. I still think Odogwu could have a place to play. Much like Manu/Nowell, his ruck work is very good, and it's the sort of thing that could help a lot with our continuity. Not to mention his insane leg drive.

[Mellsblue]

he is bound to play 12 and take over the captaincy.

How do see the make up of the midfield if this is the case? I agree that he’ll come straight back in but I fear it will be at 10 or at 12, with Slade at 13 meaning three ball players.

I'm sure the plan was to play Smith at 10 and Farrell at 12 to help bed him in. That still applies I reckon. 13 will depend on whether Tuilagi's fit and Jones wants to take another punt on him staying so. If Tuilagi isnt available, then its either Slade or Marchant dependent on the make up of the back 3.

Assuming no Tuilagi and everyone else fit, who would you select in the backline?

[Stom]

I don't remember Slade carrying the ball much, in terms of straightening the line. If at all. Though I wasn't watching for it that much. Farrell has been improving that aspect of his game, and can no longer be simply ignored. He also drives the players, you can always hear him over the ref mic. I bet that even at international, like merit league level, having that guy constantly encouraging and pushing you to keep going helps get you back in place and going again.

For me, Farrell is now a solid international 12. He's no great, but he's a solid enough option there, and seemingly a good leader. I do think we missed out by not having him. I don't know if he's the best option we have though, and it's more than possible Slade is better.

We do still need to big carriers in the backs though. I still think Odogwu could have a place to play. Much like Manu/Nowell, his ruck work is very good, and it's the sort of thing that could help a lot with our continuity. Not to mention his insane leg drive.

Whenever I see Odugwu, he makes mistakes. Lots of mistakes and silly mistakes. There's a chance he can get rid of them, but international rugby is not the place to do that. If that means he plays for Italy instead...not to be harsh but he seems more at Italy's level to me.

I agree to an extent with what you say, but I still do not believe that Farrell is the answer there. The problem is, I don't know who is.