Borthwick’s England 2.0

[Oakboy]

Implying that Daly is a credible 13 option at international level and suggesting either Farrell or Tuilagi are serious future 12 options rather devalues any other opinion expressed.

[Mellsblue]

..well apart from calling for faz 'even if in poor form'. He has too many hobby horses to absorb any astuteness

I don’t think he’s calling for Faz at 12 more stating it would be the likely course of action if he were available, the way I read it. He’s been off the Farrell bandwagon for quite a while.

he says Faz would be the shoo in for 12 if available, unless I've misread it. In fairness, he's neither supporting nor anti, just a statement of fact I spose.

Anyway, Barnes always buries a grain of truth in his own narcissism

[p/d]

Implying that Daly is a credible 13 option at international level and suggesting either Farrell or Tuilagi are serious future 12 options rather devalues any other opinion expressed.

To be honest the fu**er lost me on ‘panacea’

[Puja]

Based on the European games, I'd say this is my favoured team from that squad:

Obano
George
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Pearson
Earl
Dombrandt
Mitchell
FSmith
Feyi-Waboso
Dingwall
Lawrence
Freeman
Furbank

Marler, Dan, Stuart, Coles, Underhill, Spencer, MSmith, Beard


I have a genuine concern that we will actually see:

Marler
George
Cole
Itoje
Chessum
Isiekwe
Roots
Earl
Mitchell
Ford
Daly
Lawrence
Slade
Steward
MSmith

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Underhill on the bench because he's not played for a month?

[Puja]

Underhill on the bench because he's not played for a month?

Basically, yeah. Ideally he'd be in my starting XV (probably swapping with Dombrandt and moving Earl to 8 - bit unfair on Dombrandt, but Pearson's lineout work is giving him an edge), but can't justify it when he's only just coming back from injury.

If he remains injured, then I don't know. BCurry probably deserves another chance, but CCS is the exciting young thing who'd be fun to bring off the bench.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Are George, Itoje, Chessum and Mitchell the only certainties for the majority of us and SB? I'd expect Earl and Freeman somewhere but in which shirts?

[p/d]

I thought Roebuck looked bloody good yesterday. Not sure how the Welsh winger sits above him in the pecking order

[Oakboy]

I thought Roebuck looked bloody good yesterday. Not sure how the Welsh winger sits above him in the pecking order

Maybe it's nostalgia because he reminds SB of Jason Robinson?

[Mellsblue]

I thought Roebuck looked bloody good yesterday. Not sure how the Welsh winger sits above him in the pecking order

Agreed. Don’t both play on the right, as does Freeman who should be ahead of them both, imo. I don’t want to risk another lengthy discussion then ends with them all moving to Tigers but it would be good to find your feet at test level in your natural spot. Particularly Feyi-Waboso who’s had approx 42mins and 17 secs of first team rugby at Exeter.

[p/d]

I thought Roebuck looked bloody good yesterday. Not sure how the Welsh winger sits above him in the pecking order

Agreed. Don’t both play on the right, as does Freeman who should be ahead of them both, imo. I don’t want to risk another lengthy discussion then ends with them all moving to Tigers but it would be good to find your feet at test level in your natural spot. Particularly Feyi-Waboso who’s had approx 42mins and 17 secs of first team rugby at Exeter.

Indeed they do. Yes Freeman should be nailed on, with Biggles at 15

[Mikey Brown]

Freeman has appeared pretty equally at 11 and 14 (with a fair bit of 13/15) by this point, no? Some wingers seem to exclusively favour a particular side but I didn't get the impression he was one.

[Mellsblue]

Freeman has appeared pretty equally at 11 and 14 (with a fair bit of 13/15) by this point, no? Some wingers seem to exclusively favour a particular side but I didn't get the impression he was one.

Quite possibly. I had in mind he was just a 14 when not 13 or 15. His last appearance at 15 must be a while ago albeit I know some think it’s his best position. I have been known to be wrong, allegedly.

[Puja]

I thought Roebuck looked bloody good yesterday. Not sure how the Welsh winger sits above him in the pecking order

Agreed. Don’t both play on the right, as does Freeman who should be ahead of them both, imo. I don’t want to risk another lengthy discussion then ends with them all moving to Tigers but it would be good to find your feet at test level in your natural spot. Particularly Feyi-Waboso who’s had approx 42mins and 17 secs of first team rugby at Exeter.

I actually haven't seen enough of Roebuck this season to judge, so I'll take your recommendation. He has struck me as being very solid, but not with any outstanding qualities - not particularly rapid, nor elusive, nor exceptional at busting tackles. The only thing I've seen of him that does look exceptional is his kick chase, which I'd kinda like us to move away from. Is that an unfair assessment on my part?

I have been impressed with Feyi-Waboso in his 13 starts this season and he does have exceptional characteristics - speed, step, and a strong carry into contact (bumping Vui from only a short runup was a particular highlight). I'm not wedded to the selection if someone can make a strong case for Roebuck though.

Puja

[SixAndAHalf]

Are George, Itoje, Chessum and Mitchell the only certainties for the majority of us and SB? I'd expect Earl and Freeman somewhere but in which shirts?

I think Lawrence would be in the Earl / Freeman bucket? I'd also expect Steward will be written into SB's team.

[Mellsblue]

I thought Roebuck looked bloody good yesterday. Not sure how the Welsh winger sits above him in the pecking order

Agreed. Don’t both play on the right, as does Freeman who should be ahead of them both, imo. I don’t want to risk another lengthy discussion then ends with them all moving to Tigers but it would be good to find your feet at test level in your natural spot. Particularly Feyi-Waboso who’s had approx 42mins and 17 secs of first team rugby at Exeter.

Biggles at 15

Because of his moustache, general all round excellence on the field this season, the fact he’s unbeaten as captain of Northampton or all of the above?
It’s rhetorical… I know it’s solely because of the moustache.

[FKAS]

Freeman has appeared pretty equally at 11 and 14 (with a fair bit of 13/15) by this point, no? Some wingers seem to exclusively favour a particular side but I didn't get the impression he was one.

Yeah that's right. Freeman seems happy on either wing. Roebuck and EFW both seem to prefer the right wing.

Roebuck has a great kick chase game, which whilst unpopular will be useful at international level. EFW seems to be able to create opportunities from very little which going on the world cup attack might be useful as well.

Freeman should be a certainty, I don't mind which of the other two gets selected. They've both shown plenty of potential at club level.

[Mellsblue]

Had a quick look back through Saints’ team sheets this season and the back end of last and Freeman plays on both wings. He’s been 14 since being moved from 13 this season and my memory obvs won’t reliably let me go any further back than that. I had also thought that on the summer tour to Oz, when I believed he deserved to nail down the shirt, was on the right but Wikipedia tells me it was wearing 11.
As you were… 11. Freeman & 14. Roebuck for me. Feyi-Waboso to earn his spurs in camp and prove his quality for a more extend period.

[Mikey Brown]

I actually haven't seen enough of Roebuck this season to judge, so I'll take your recommendation. He has struck me as being very solid, but not with any outstanding qualities - not particularly rapid, nor elusive, nor exceptional at busting tackles. The only thing I've seen of him that does look exceptional is his kick chase, which I'd kinda like us to move away from. Is that an unfair assessment on my part?

Puja

My impression was fairly similar, but I don’t think he’s especially lacking in those other areas of attack. He looks a good all rounder and reminds me a bit of a young Mark Cueto.

[Oakboy]

I'd be happy with Freeman, Roebuck and Furbank as the back three. I would not be unhappy with Freeman, ESW and Steward or any other combination that included Freeman.

I suppose the optimum trio for defence, high ball fielding and kick-chase would be Freeman, Roebuck and Steward. The optimum for try-scoring could, arguably, be Freeman, ESW and Furbank.

SB will probably pick Daly.

[p/d]

I'd be happy with Freeman, Roebuck and Furbank as the back three. I would not be unhappy with Freeman, ESW and Steward or any other combination that included Freeman.

I suppose the optimum trio for defence, high ball fielding and kick-chase would be Freeman, Roebuck and Steward. The optimum for try-scoring could, arguably, be Freeman, ESW and Furbank.

SB will probably pick Daly.

Are we happy to assume the Steward at 14 and Smith fb is a thing of the past.

[Puja]

I'd be happy with Freeman, Roebuck and Furbank as the back three. I would not be unhappy with Freeman, ESW and Steward or any other combination that included Freeman.

I suppose the optimum trio for defence, high ball fielding and kick-chase would be Freeman, Roebuck and Steward. The optimum for try-scoring could, arguably, be Freeman, ESW and Furbank.

SB will probably pick Daly.

Are we happy to assume the Steward at 14 and Smith fb is a thing of the past.

I would be thrilled to assume that. I don't know that we necessarily can though.

Not necessarily against MSmith at 15, mind, but Steward shouldn't be 15 on current form, let alone his secondary and worse position. He's not good enough right now to be worth crowbarring into the team.

Puja

[FKAS]

I'd be happy with Freeman, Roebuck and Furbank as the back three. I would not be unhappy with Freeman, ESW and Steward or any other combination that included Freeman.

I suppose the optimum trio for defence, high ball fielding and kick-chase would be Freeman, Roebuck and Steward. The optimum for try-scoring could, arguably, be Freeman, ESW and Furbank.

SB will probably pick Daly.

Are we happy to assume the Steward at 14 and Smith fb is a thing of the past.

I would be thrilled to assume that. I don't know that we necessarily can though.

Not necessarily against MSmith at 15, mind, but Steward shouldn't be 15 on current form, let alone his secondary and worse position. He's not good enough right now to be worth crowbarring into the team.

Puja

So...

9. Mitchell
10. F Smith
11. Freeman
12. Furbank
13. Daly
14. Steward
15. M Smith

Almost a backline of players that have played fullback

[16th man]

I'd be happy with Freeman, Roebuck and Furbank as the back three. I would not be unhappy with Freeman, ESW and Steward or any other combination that included Freeman.

I suppose the optimum trio for defence, high ball fielding and kick-chase would be Freeman, Roebuck and Steward. The optimum for try-scoring could, arguably, be Freeman, ESW and Furbank.

SB will probably pick Daly.

Are we happy to assume the Steward at 14 and Smith fb is a thing of the past.

I would be thrilled to assume that. I don't know that we necessarily can though.

Not necessarily against MSmith at 15, mind, but Steward shouldn't be 15 on current form, let alone his secondary and worse position. He's not good enough right now to be worth crowbarring into the team.

Puja

Trying to remember the last time we had a coach where this actually appeared to matter.

Scrofula Bag hasn't had much chance to show it yet, granted, but if the plan remains to be booting it in the air, I can't see any scenario where he isn't picked.

[fivepointer]